Thinking of getting a circa 2000 Spider - Am I barking mad?

[Black5]

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for a manual car for my kids to learn to drive in,  (and for myself and wife to use occasionally instead of the large thirsty barges we both have as dailies) and rather than a cheap, reliable, (boring), Japanese sedan, or  an old German with frightful maintenance and repair costs I thought I'd like to get something a little more fun!

Originally I went looking for early MX5's, and discovered that these Alfa spiders are in a similar price range and are a little rarer and I don't mind being "different" :-).

Unfortunately, I don't know a lot about them.

The criteria:

Budget - $5-7K.
Manual
Smallish.
Low running costs
Reliable
Safe. (Airbags, ABS, TC, and any other safety features would be welcomed.)
Fun.
P-Plate legal in Victoria.
To be potentially subsequently used to introduce my kids to entry level motorsport if they are interested. (and maybe let their old man rekindle an old flame...)

Re-sale value isn't a core criteria, but a model at the bottom of it's value range, so that I don't lose too much over the next 4-5 years before either handing it over to one of the kids, (If they want it), selling, or trading it would be nice. (Or keeping it for myself if it turns out to be TOO much fun :-)).

(E.g. Early 90's Series 1 MX5's seem to be valued at more than Series 2 on the used market ATM)

So...

Are there any major issues with these that could be problematic and what should I look out for when buying privately second hand?

I'm in Victoria, (South East) and would be happy to do a PPI if someone can recommend or suggest a local specialist who I could also subsequently use for servicing and maintenance.

How do they compare with a similar vintage MX5? (Despite the obvious fact that MX5's have held their value better.)

Am I kidding myself and buying into a potential nightmare and I should go back to more sensible options such as buy a 2-3 YO Korean/Chinese car and throw it away after 5 years, or getting a Toyota?

[alanm]

Hi

No, you are not barking mad wanting to buy a 916 series spider!

If you buy a Chinese/Korean car you are buying a method of getting from one place to the other as economically as possible.
If you buy an Alfa you are buying a little bit of italian motoring heritage, an inspired Pininfarina design, a passion, a lifestyle – there is simply no comparison between a Hyundai and an Alfa

The 916 series GTVs and Spiders are fundamentally sound mechanically in my opinion – the Twin Spark and V6 engines have a solid reputation for reliability if they are serviced properly. The V6 Busso fitted to these cars is actually regarded as one of the all time greats. The engine you might want to avoid is the JTS used on the Phase 3 cars (approx 2003/4).

The gearbox is also very reliable on all models, the factory diff is the only weakness on the V6 cars.

I have had my 2001 Phase 2 GTV 3.0 V6 for a couple of years now and I love it!

The only criteria IMHO that the Spider does not necessarily meet is the potential to take it onto the track.
The GTV is better suited to this because its chassis is 64% stiffer than the Spider. One of the Club's sponsors is just starting to develop a 916 GTV for AROCA sprint and racing events. It might be at Broadford on Sunday if you would like to have a look (round 1 AROCA Sprint Series).

This buyers guide at Alfa Workshop (UK) will be much more informative than my ramblings...

http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/alfa_romeo_spider.shtml

Cheers,
Al

[alanm]

I don't know of any Spider specific video reviews but this is a good one of the GTV 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUGUyHEODjU

[Black5]

Thanks for your comments AlanM,

I appreciate that the MX-5 is probably a better choice as a track car, but as this is very much a secondary, (or maybe just me dreaming that I'll find the time!) consideration, (and early MX-5's are starting to atract a premium), I can accept that this, and I want my son to learn in a car that he can appreciate and enjoy rather than just use as a "whitegoods" commuter.

The later JTS cars are out of budget anyway, and the performance of the Twin Spark should be more than enough for a learner driver, so the V6 isn't really a consideration either.

I haven't really started looking in earnest yet, but the few available on carsales in Victoria ATM are either randomly priced for what they are, or the sellers have unrealistic expectations or are downright rude if you ask for information.

How do people expect to sell cars if they don't want to answer any questions?

Example : 190K's, 2000, base model for just under $6K, and a supposed "Millenium" limited edition that he doesn't even want to discuss...

"Not sure what extra features the millennium model comes with other than to say that my mechanic told me that my car has the better engine etc. What I can tell you is that the car drives exceptionally well and that I would prefer to keep it garaged and drive it with the roof down over the summers than to give it away."

So why advertise it at all?

Another that I thought looked more realistic, 105K's, 2002, Luxury for around the same price unfortunately has non-existent books and NO service history. (I know it's cheap, but that's a deal-breaker as getting a car that has missed a few services is too much of a risk)

They then jump to the $8k mark and beyond for similar age and model which puts them beyond my budget.

I may be forced to re-assess my budget and expectations...

[poohbah]

Hi there mate, why don't you contact forum member jim501; he has a cracker of a spider that he is planning to sell as another nipper is on the way. He posted on this forum not long ago.

[Black5]

Thanks poobah,

I might just do that...

EDIT : He's in QLD which could make it difficult.

[alanm]

I can empathise with you, I always buy my cars from private sellers and it can be a frustrating experience. My 18 yo son is looking for a TS manual 156 and, based on my own experience, it could take a few months to find the right car.

Ruling out selespeed cars, WA, NT and Qld cars and cars without maintenance histories leaves only 1 or 2 on Carsales at the moment
One of the cars ticks a few boxes but has too many modifications for a P plater looking for car insurance.

Unhelpful owners add to the frustration, fortunately I don't think there are too many of them in the Alfa community in Melbourne.

Buying a car in Sydney or Adelaide and driving it home with your son or daughter would be a great experience - I have done this twice now.

Good hunting!
Alan.

[kaleuclint]

I am looking for Junior's first car.  Searching for a manual Alfa with less than 60,000km for under $12K -- yes, examples of the Spider come up!  Though I find the thought of him in a droptop Alfa a bit strange.  Not sure he'd like it either.
https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Alfa-Romeo-Spider-2003/SSE-AD-4276984/?Cr=9

I suspect he will get a Golf or a MiTo Sport, though the odd very low km 156 that comes up has been considered.  That grey one that was on carsales certainly on the list.

[bazzbazz]

I am looking for Junior's first car.  Searching for a manual Alfa with less than 60,000km for under $12K -- yes, examples of the Spider come up!  Though I find the thought of him in a droptop Alfa a bit strange.

Oh come now, sure its not a case of jealousy, I mean really, his first car, and it's an Alfa Romeo Spider, my first car was a bloody 1981 Toyota Corolla.

Do me a favour . . . .ADOPT ME! 

Baz

[poohbah]

I've got you beat Baz, my first car was a 73 Corolla! I'm also up for adoption...

I was talking about getting a 2.0L 156 for my son as his first car, but the War Office was less than amused.

But my reasoning is sound - cheap to buy, with all the safety mods "modern" parents could expect, not too powerful but still the coolest thing in the uni carpark. He's at least 12 months off getting his licence, so still time to talk the boss around

[kaleuclint]

I wish an EU citizen would adopt ME...  But that's another story!

If I was buying for Junior today, I'd point him towards this:
https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Alfa-Romeo-MiTo-2010/SSE-AD-3768332/?Cr=12
Almost a shame that it's in Melbourne as I've also thought a run down the South Coast or across from Adelaide bringing home the first car would be a great father-son experience.

First car?  HJ Monaro GTS 4.2.  Easy to maintain but big on fuel.  Modern options are the opposite!

[poohbah]

That's a helluva first car you had KC.

Re Junior, whenever we've discussed cars, h'e been pretty clear on two criteria for what he is looking for - absolutely cannot e a hatchback and has to be a little bit different. So clearly he's picked up a few preferences from his old man.

If he can't get into a 156, I've been thinking of steering toward a series 1 Volvo S40 T4 or maybe a VW Bora V5 or V6 (though I am wary of transmission/electrical issues).

[Black5]

Well it looks like "she who must be obeyed" has gone behind our backs and committed to buy her nieces old car off her - sight unseen!

My son also specified "No Hatchbacks" a little bit fun and a manual as his preferences.

I concurred figuring an occasional weekend blast for me while he is on his "L's" wouldn't be a bad thing :-). (He can't drive it ALL the time after all).

Not gonna happen now.

It's a $#%^*!@# Astra!!!! :-(

Not cool.

Hopefully there is something seriously wrong with it when she brings it over for us to look at this weekend and we can escape.

[poohbah]

You could cite used car reviews warning of the perils of Astra electrics - particularly as the cars get older - which are a common issue and can cost big dollars to fix (failed crank sensors I believe are a major problem).

[Italian Supermodel]

Black5,
your original comments , opinions and desires for your son I saw as admirable and providing him a great start into the alfa family.
Then some two weeks later you're about to hand him ownership ( most likely) of an Astra!!
 
This is reminiscent of a chap I know who makes 90% of the decisions in the family, and his wife the important 10%.....
Stick to your guns and your son will thank you for it in the long term I'm certain.