'71 GTV steering box removal / replacement

[AikenDrum105]

Hi folks,

I need to replace the steering box in a '71 gtv with a reco unit - with the engine in place. I understand this is doable with the carbs and some other ancilliaries removed - if anyone's done this and has some tips or gotchas they can share before I reinvent the wheel and lose all the skin off my knuckles - much appreciated   I have done it a couple of times on cars with the engine out - obviously much easier....

Appreciate any help,

Cheers,

[Giulia65]

Hi Scott,

Easy-as.  I did exactly the same job on my '74 Junior last weekend.

As you say, carbs-off is necessary, but the rest is really only some minor re-arranging of various wires and maybe heater pipes in-situ without disconnecting anything to keep them clear of the steering box/shaft whilst you draw it through.

Don't forget to disconnect the battery though! 

Very easy job, took about 2 hours all-up; and wow, what a difference a reconditioned box makes!

Best of luck. Cheers, Cameron

[AikenDrum105]

Legendary - cheers Cameron !

[Mr Frog]

very interesting. can you tell me who reconditions the boxes, and approximately how much I would be looking at. Many thanks.

[pancho]

I am also interested in this.

And are there any improvements that can be made such as replacing bushes with bearings or similar ?

[AikenDrum105]

I sourced the reconditioned box via Marc @ Milano Spares in Thomastown - 9462 2138  Involves changeover of your box (or you can have your exact box rebuilt if you like).   I've been driving the a reconditioned box in my Super for the last month and it's been perfect - if you're around the Richmond area feel free to drop in and, uh,  have a feel....

The reco includes renewing the collar / threads etc at the top of the column too - not just the box innards.  It comes painted up ready to go back in - and is filled with a thin white grease, rather than oil. 

Re changing bushings to bearings - I know Alfaholics sell a steering *idler* that has bearings instead of bushings (it's a new casting, not a mod of the old castings )  But most just renew the bushings (and possibly the shaft)  in the idler and drill / tap a grease nipple in the middle so you can keep it lubricated.  When I had the super in for RWC,  Bruno and Giancarlo @ Maranello Pur-Sang mentioned they have the kits to do this.

One thing I can't recommend enough is biting the bullet and replacing all the bushings / joints on the front suspension in one go (including all the tie-rods) On my old 1750 GTV, and the Duetto - I replaced them piecemeal when funds / time allowed, or necessity demanded - and the steering / suspension always seemed ok to me,  but for the Super I replaced everything all in one go - and I can really see what folks mean when they talk about precise 105 steering.    If you can't get the car up on a hoist and use a various forms of leverage/compression to check all the joints - I'd take a stab on an old car and say do the lower ball joints,  the front castor joints, the A-Arm rose joints and all the tie-rods and see how that goes -   then save up for those adjustable upper arms that replace the inboard bush,  castor bush and upper ball joint in one go

for the upper arms - you can press out the inboard rubber bush and press in one of the lower A-Arm rose joint bushings instead as an upgrade.  makes things more rigid but transmits a little more noise - depends on your application I guess.   

I hope that helps - wiser folks might chip in where I've mucked it up

Cheers,

[Paul Gulliver]

Great job description Scott . About to embark on that project myself. PM sent.

[pep105]

Great advice Scott, had this job done a number of years ago along with all the bushes/tie rod ends and some rear bushes as well and in conjuction with new tyres the car was transformed. My steering box was absolutely beyond rooted, so I got a reco from Marc, it's the complete unit with the column.

Mine had to come out twice as I was supplied the wrong one, theres two types longer column for the flat steering wheel on 1750 and shorter column for later models with the dished wheel like the 2000 GTV and GT1600 Junior.

Other thing to be weary of is setting it up so it's aligned correctly so your lock to lock isn't out, which was another issue mine had.

Good luck
Cheers
Pep

[AikenDrum105]

Other thing to be weary of is setting it up so it's aligned correctly so your lock to lock isn't out, which was another issue mine had.

Cheers Pep - I didn't know there were unequal length boxes - I dropped mine in and got the same box back, sounds like I lucked out there - I can think of the exact words I would use if I'd just put the box back in and discovered the length was wrong...    'Golly' and 'Crikey' probably wouldn't cut it...

The alignment is a really good point - there's a process for the 105's - see attachment.   I took that in with me to Swan St Tyres Plus and they did a great job aligning the car (considering I needed them to do the castor / camber as well).  They've done a few 105's lately and aren't afraid of them.  I understand Stuckeys are very au-fait with the 105s too (and club sponsors)

Cheers,

[Mr Frog]

Many thanks for the excellent information and the diagram. What was the price of a reco box, and what was the price of box + fitting?

[pep105]

$600 changeover is what I paid in 2004, maybe Scott would be in a better position to respond as he has done this more recently.

For labour you could assume say 2 - 3 hours labour at about 90 - 120 per hour as a rough guess.

[AikenDrum105]

The reco box was about $550 changeover - best to speak to Marc @ Milano's and what his best price is.   As Pep mentioned,  might be a good idea to measure the length of your box and make sure the one you get back is a match (or specify that your particular box is rebuilt)

Just finished changing it over today actually - On a clean car with no other issues I think 2-3 hours is a great estimate.  On a car that's been neglected,  Oil / Grease all over the bottom - old wires that snap out of their crimp fittings if you so much as brush them,  rubber firewall seals that tear even as you grease and massage them along the steering box shaft...


And of course the inevitable "Oh - while that's out I can fix this... and that ... and so on...   Lots of room for project scope creep

In case anyone's contemplating it who's not all that mechicanically minded - it's a fiddly job - but pretty simple and very satisfying when completed - here's some notes fresh from my head - Cameron /  Pep - did I forget anything ? 

* Undo the battery Neg. terminal - when working under the carbs - you'll be working blind with metal spanners right next to the big positive feed wire on the starter..  Spark + Fuel leak from removing carbs = roasty toasty

* Undo the hose clamp on the fuel line coming up from the regulator to the carbs - find a nice M8 or similar bolt to stick in the end of the line and tighten the clamp again - stops you getting high off the fumes weeping out of that line.  Take off the air cleaner assy.

* Undo 8 nuts mounting the carbs to rubber intake isolators.  These nuts can be 13mm,  12mm and sometimes 14mm ..  usually makes life easier if the 12's are along the bottom where you are practicing your 'looking with your fingertips' skills - you get very good at working blind after a while. A short or cut down 12 / 13mm spanner is very helpful here. This is probably the fiddliest part of the job really - can be very frustrating if the underside of the carbs are really filthy - consider degreasing / pressure washing the underside of them so the nuts can be easily spun on /off by the finger tips. Once the carbs are off - you can chase the threads with a die and clean the nuts with a tap to make them really easy to put back on blind.

* Undo the 17mm bolt holding the bottom of the carb support arm to the Drivers side engine mount - another exercise in working blind

* Undo the choke cable from the carb choke levers, and the housing mount screw - withdraw it from the carbs and tuck away so it doesn't flick out and poke you in the eye.  (Yes It did.   Yes I said some things about it at the time)

* Pop the short throttle linkage ball / rod end off the link between the carbs - the one you can see at the top from above.

* Wiggle the carbs off and sit them on the bench - think about buying a rebuild kit.  Thornbury Carbs in VIC are excellent for parts / rebuilds / advice btw.

* Now the greasy bit you'll need a pitman arm puller and a tie rod / ball joint separator..  (you might be able to do it just popping the arm off and leaving the tie rods on - turning the front wheels out to give you enough slack to pull the arm down - I didn't think about this until I already popped the tie rods off)   Undo the tie rod nuts (check for split pins)  on the centre link to pitman arm joint,  and the drivers side short link wheel end joint.  Use the tie rod separator to pop them and move the links down out of  the way. If any of the tie rods are sloppy in their joints (they should have a light friction as they move and not flop about everywhere)  replace them now -  note they are left and right handed threads.

* Pull the split pin out of the Pitman arm nut and undo it (36mm socket)  Note the bottom of the steering box shaft has a line stamped on it - that matches a small line stamped on the pitman arm  these need to line up later. Use the Pitman arm puller to release the arm from the steering box - it might be super tight - you might need to load up the puller and apply a little heat /  smack the arm near the joint with a copper hammer etc to shock it.  I've done two which just pulled off using the puller alone - but I've heard horror stories about them too.

* Undo the three 17mm nuts securing the steering box to the engine bay and disconnect the horn wire that comes out of the end of the box. Note the orientation of the steering limit plate / bolt assy that's also held on by these bolts

* Inside the car - remove the steering wheel horn / cover,  hammer down the lockplate (if it has one) and undo the nut (27mm ?)  Disconnect the horn wire and Depending on the wheel you have - use the correct puller / three jaw puller / swearing and brute force (careful with the wooden wheels they splinter - or those black sprint GT wheels with polished down rivets - they bend out of shape)   

* Remove the cowling around the steering column / stalks. The upper cowling can usually be wiggled out with a little persuasion. You need to release the electrics from the steering column - on mine I removed the four bolts holding the indicator / headlight assy,  and unplugged the leads going to the ignition switch (taking note of the colours etc)    Note:  you'll need to insert the key and turn it to release the steering lock before taking the column off the box shaft.

* under the dash - you can see two 17mm bolts holding the column to the frame of the car - undo these and remove.   Towards the steering wheel end of the column - there's a 13mm nut / bolt pinching the alloy column onto the steel shaft - loosen this off - you should then be able to wiggle the column and withdraw it off the top of the steering box shaft. Because the box is free in the engine bay - you can wiggle this up / down etc - be mindful of scratching paint in the engine bay when you do this.

* spray some wd40 etc  on the steering box shaft where it passes through the firewall seal on the inside of the car, and also in the engine bay - work it around so the seal can slip up and down the shaft (that just sounds wrong... or right .. )   then from the engine bay - lift the box up and start to pull.  If you're lucky like me - the firewall seal will fall apart anyway - but see how you go

On the reco box I received,  the woodruff key was missing from the top of the shaft - so I had to tap that out of the old one and fit it to the new one (squeezing them in gently with vice-grips is lots easier than hammering them in...)   I also made up a new horn wire and ran it through the box (feed them in from the outside of the box up the shaft )

* Clean 500 years of accumulated crud revealed by removing the box - and any other project creep you desire (if you have a dodgy starter - do it now),  then guide the new box back in.   Fit the 3 17mm bolts that secure the box to the engine bay - but leave them loose,  you need jiggle room to get the column back on inside the car.  Reconnect your horn wire and anything else you displaced. 

* Refit the carbs, choke cable, fuel line etc.  When fitting the carbs - make sure the linkage you popped off earlier comes up between them as you go - annoying to have to pop it off from the bottom to refit it later.

* inside the car - refit the alloy steering column and tighten up (you may like to fit the upper cowling first if it's tight).  Refit the indicator / headlight assy and reconnect whatever you pulled out along the way. Refit the cowling.  Make sure the horn wire is pulled up through the shaft,  check your woodruff key is in place (and the indicator spring sleeve, and the spring under that) and refit the steering wheel / lock washer / nut and tighten.   Do it up tight enough to hold it,  but remember the tighter you go - the harder it is to pull off next time....  The woodruff key and the lock washer will keep it happy. 

* Rotate the wheel from lock to lock - it's about 4 turns - centre the wheel so it's 2 turns to either lock.   Reconnect your horn wire and horn button.   

* Double check you have the steering limit plate on the right way and tighten the 3 17mm bolts holding the box to the engine bay

* Refit the Pitman arm - you've centered the steering wheel already - so fit the arm pointing straight back  towards the rear of the car - lining up the stamp on the arm with the groove cut across the bottom of the steering shaft.  Tighten it up and refit the split pin to keep it there. Refit the two tie rods you removed and tighten up (refitting any split pins you removed)  Your steering wheel should be centered and the front wheels too !

* Double check everything and take the car for a spin - smile a lot.

Hope that helps someone - apologies for everything I forgot.

[pep105]

Cheers Scott,

Very detailed explanation mate great reference for anyone planning to undertake this job.

Me rections one of the key things is, as you mentioned attending to any other issues that need to be resolved.

We changed the carbie mounts on mine, so any issues with the carbs, rubber mounts, stay bush, starter, wiring etc
should be factored in so while ya down there.......

Also as mentioned by Cameron & yourself - disconnect the battery terminal    could get funky otherwise for all the wrong reasons

Another funny one with mine was as it had a non original Momo Indy wheel, which was later swapped for an original Hellebore wheel I discovered that the key way wasn't in the 12 o clock position, but some slimy person got away with it as you could mount the wheel
to the boss in a different position due to the multiple allen key bolt pattern, so front wheels are straight your nice little Momo
wheel is straight as it should be but the shaft is out - not possible with the standard wheel. More swearing words I wouldn't
repeat on this forum  

Anyway enough from me, Ill get back to watching Rage - Best Coast are guest programmers tonight and it's jammin !

Cheers Good Stuff Scott