Author Topic: 3.0 Help Please  (Read 18403 times)

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V AR 164

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Re: 3.0 Help Please
« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2017, 08:29:04 PM »
Thanks guys, really appreciate the support.

Just cracked open my workshop manuals and it doesn't seem too difficult. The main thing I'm nervous about is the timing of the motor. I'm assuming you set it to TDC with all cam marks and flywheel marks lining up?

I have also read about those clamps. I've saw someone made a set out of pvc pipe and big washers, and I would plan to do the same.

So essentially is this the very simplified rundown?
-Make sure it's at TDC
-Remove plenum and valve covers
-Double check timing
-Remove timing belt
-Remove cam 'caps'
-Take off cam gears
-Remove cams
-Crack loose head nuts
-Remove nuts
-Lift off the head
-Use the compressors on the liners to stop linear movement of liners and compromising seals

Pretty much it?

I would more than likely send the heads away to be refreshed completely, just to make sure it doesn't happen again anytime soon. Even if it costs a pretty penny, I think it's worth it.

Bteoh, I have a complete workshop manual showing every step needed to remove the engine, if you want I can send you pictures of the pages to your email.

Regarding removing the heads with the engine in the car, it is possible yeah? Of course the burnt valve is on the rear bank of cylinders. Hopefully I won't need to drop the motor.

Cheers, Andrew.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 08:35:14 PM by V AR 164 »
Present:
-1992 164Q
-1993 Hilux Surf
-1994 VR Calais

Past:
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sportiva

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Re: 3.0 Help Please
« Reply #31 on: October 31, 2017, 09:21:12 PM »
You don't need to remove the cams to remove the heads.
I made my liner clamps out of Alfetta castor bush washers and an old GTV tailgate strut
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bteoh

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Re: 3.0 Help Please
« Reply #32 on: November 02, 2017, 05:32:16 PM »
Hi Andrew,
Thanks for the offer but I do have a copy of the car disc for the 164. I am still toying with the idea of removing the heads to see the extent of damage. I presume you have to remove the false firewall to gain more access to the rear bank of cylinders?
I shall follow the progress of yours and see how it goes.
Cheers

V AR 164

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Re: 3.0 Help Please
« Reply #33 on: November 02, 2017, 06:37:26 PM »
Sounds good.

I have the mechanic coming over tonight, and if he can't make time to fix it within the next few weeks, I'll pull the car into the garage this weekend and start working on it.

Yes the false firewall needs to come out plus many other bits and pieces.

I am actually thinking on making several YouTube videos outlining the process I will go through step by step, maybe that will be of use to you? That's if I will do the work myself of course.

Cheers, Andrew.
Present:
-1992 164Q
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-1994 VR Calais

Past:
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CitroŽnbender

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Re: 3.0 Help Please
« Reply #34 on: November 02, 2017, 07:19:35 PM »
At the risk of sounding a BOF, why not line up all your ducks before starting? Get the bolts, VRS kit, coin for a full refresh of both heads, all set aside then hook into it. In the meantime pull the injector plug off for that cylinder and put a dummy load on it.

V AR 164

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Re: 3.0 Help Please
« Reply #35 on: November 02, 2017, 09:40:51 PM »
At the risk of sounding a BOF, why not line up all your ducks before starting? Get the bolts, VRS kit, coin for a full refresh of both heads, all set aside then hook into it. In the meantime pull the injector plug off for that cylinder and put a dummy load on it.

I agree, but I have garage space so if the car was sitting for a while, it wouldn't matter.

My mechanic really doesn't want to do the job, plus he is busy for a while, so I am going to do it myself.

I think I may just pull the whole motor and fix it out of the car. As well as this, I can address my leaking rear main seal.

Andrew.
Present:
-1992 164Q
-1993 Hilux Surf
-1994 VR Calais

Past:
-2006 159 2.4 Ti

CitroŽnbender

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Re: 3.0 Help Please
« Reply #36 on: November 02, 2017, 10:56:37 PM »
An immobile car can be a big demotivator, plus thereís risk of scope creep. You donít need impossible timelines like those TV reno shows, but a keen sense of ďLetís get this back on the roadĒ to be ever-present.

Doug Gould

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Re: 3.0 Help Please
« Reply #37 on: November 03, 2017, 12:06:31 PM »
In my opinion, CAMS / borescopes are of little value unless you are practiced using them. I tried looking down some aircraft cylinders that were removed from the engine and what I thought via the cam compared with what I saw down the open end were 2 different things. What you think are score marks on the bore could be oil streaks.

Go back to basics.
1. Is there any sign of water in the oil?
2. Is there any bubbling in the radiator when you rev the engine
3. Maybe get a exhaust gas test done on the radiator.
4. Repeat the compression test, but do it dry then add oil which should help tell if its the rings or valves.
5. Maybe pull the rocker cover off and see if there is anything that is interfering with the valve operation (eg broken exhaust rocker that is jamming the exhaust valve open)
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sportiva

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Re: 3.0 Help Please
« Reply #38 on: November 03, 2017, 05:20:32 PM »
A leaking rear main is a good enough reason to pull the engine out and repair it
Pull the valve covers and measure the valve clearance's any bent valves will be obvious as indicated by the much wider clearance.
I had a cam belt loose four teeth, after replacing the belt there was no compression on #1 cylinder.  I was lucky as #1 exhaust valve was the only casualty, It only cost me one valve and a head gasket so it was relatively inexpensive
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5 alfasuds parted
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carlo rossi

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Re: 3.0 Help Please
« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2017, 01:39:44 PM »
broken valve spring is my guess '
just enough to keep it out of trouble
but stuffed
heads off
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Mick A

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Re: 3.0 Help Please
« Reply #40 on: November 04, 2017, 09:39:14 PM »
Hi experts out there.

Read back a page through his posts. He has already found the problem, and taken photos of the burnt out valve.

He's a good kid who has the right idea, and I hope he learns a lot by doing this work himself and after he will have a lot of pride when he drives his car again.

Mick.

CitroŽnbender

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Re: 3.0 Help Please
« Reply #41 on: November 04, 2017, 11:03:41 PM »
I'm taking a conservative approach rather than cheering on a full-tilt repair operation because I have possibly trodden a similar path. 

There are so many facets to workshop repairs, that one quickly takes for granted; from tools and fixtures to an experienced person looking over your shoulder and (hopefully) letting you know before it goes south. As a young, enthusiastic classic car DIY'er well before the internet came to be, I was - to be perfectly honest - taken advantage of by far too many people. Overcharged, underserviced, lied to, items returned damaged. (The silver lining in this, is I've developed a lifelong belief that people should do honest work which then deserves fair pay.)  But no way in hell would I want to see anyone else learn the same hard lessons, that's vindictive - there are better ways to gain useful knowledge, hone your skills and get back on the road faster.

Mick A

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Re: 3.0 Help Please
« Reply #42 on: November 04, 2017, 11:31:44 PM »
I understand your point.

I may be the only person following this thread who has actually spoken with Andrew on the phone about his car, because he called our workshop to get some advice.

I spent quite a bit of time on the phone with him, and gave him some realistic options of which way he can take on this repair. Not just in the work he does pulling the heads off, but what we do with the heads once they are off the engine, because as I'm sure you will know, you can simply replace a valve, lap it back in by hand, and for all its intended purposes  it'll work just fine. Or you can go all out and reco the heads, resurface, crack test, vacuum test etc etc. Of course there are huge differences in prices that go along with the amount of work. Is there a performance gain in doing this? Of course... but is it going to be noticeable to him in the way he is going to be using the car? Probably not. More accurately, the hp gain for the $$$$ spent, with an old set of piston rings and liners, may not be worth it.

I've given him our honest and informed opinion on what will suit his needs, while keeping a reasonable budget in mind.
So he is well informed and it is now up to him which way he decides to go with this.

Either way he will have support and advice on hand if he needs it.

Mick.

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Re: 3.0 Help Please
« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2017, 11:20:03 AM »
Mentoring like that is a great help. Hopefully it will keep the project focused and moving well.

V AR 164

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Re: 3.0 Help Please
« Reply #44 on: November 05, 2017, 08:41:38 PM »
Thanks Mick for the support.

Yes Citroenbender I also do understand your point, but I am very keen to learn and double and triple my work to make sure I have done it correctly. And if I am unsure, I will post here my questions.

So far, I have spent today 'tearing down' the engine bay, removing everything necessary. To be honest, so far it is pretty easy and straightforward. Yes there are some tricky situations, but a little practical thinking goes along way.

Currently onto removing the rear manifold which is indeed tricky with the limited space, then I'm ready to remove the timing belt and take off the head bolts.

I have lined up the crank pulley with the timing mark on the pulley itself and the casting in the block, but are there any timing marks on the cams? Took the valve covers off quickly before and couldn't see any marks, I probably have overlooked them.

Again thank you for everyone for your input!
Andrew.
Present:
-1992 164Q
-1993 Hilux Surf
-1994 VR Calais

Past:
-2006 159 2.4 Ti