Author Topic: Club permit for non-Alfas (was Re: New procedure for acquiring a Club Permit renewal/ new applicatio  (Read 13874 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

310

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 90
  • AROCA Member #: 4878
apart from alfa are other makes allowed to be on club rego with the alfa club, eg holdens

massiveluvbuddy67

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 514
  • AROCA Member #: 1313
apart from alfa are other makes allowed to be on club rego with the alfa club, eg holdens

Here are my thoughts...

If you are a current financial club member AND you also have an Alfa on the club permit scheme already, I have no objection to non-Alfas also being signed up under that particular member. (For example, I have a BMW on CPS via the Alfa club but also have 3 Alfas on the CPS).

If the Holden is your only car under the CPS scheme I would request you join the Holden car club for CPS.

The above approach is an attempt to ensure that the majority of CPS cars administered by the AROCA Vic, are actually Alfas.

Best Regards
Phil Nash
Club Permit Officer

310

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 90
  • AROCA Member #: 4878
I am in the process of accuring another 2xalfa suds which I will put on club reg once RWC, as it is I have 3 cars 2x holdens 1966 and 1970 a alfa 164q  and soon a set of suds to add the collection once they arrive and if I can find another gtv6 but 1 step at a time.

Mick A

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 726
  • AROCA Member #: 3488

Brad M

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 769
  • AROCA Member #: [Vic]490A
If you are a current financial club member AND you also have an Alfa on the club permit scheme already, I have no objection to non-Alfas also being signed up under that particular member. (For example, I have a BMW on CPS via the Alfa club but also have 3 Alfas on the CPS).

If the Holden is your only car under the CPS scheme I would request you join the Holden car club for CPS.

With all respect Phil I disagree.

A person with modern Alfa's or even daily driven older Alfa's shouldn't be directed to another club because they have a dark side (ie. own a old non-alfa they only choose to drive occasionally).

The Alfa club is about including all Alfa Romeo owners, not just those with CPS compliant vehicles.
06 147 JTD 1.9
76 116 GT 2.0
72 105 GTV 2.0

Gone... 2x 147 GTA, 2x 90, 2x SudSprint

Next? ... http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=17067

Evan Bottcher

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2949
    • Slow and Fun - my Alfa journal
  • AROCA Member #: 2928
I agree with Brad on this one, the approach seems a bit overly restrictive.  If someone owns a late model Alfa and is a member of our club, but also owns a classic non-Alfa I see no reason to make them join another club.  You could reasonably object to people with no Alfas joining just to get plates for their Falcodore, but I'm sure we don't get too many of those anyway.

A different question - can the Alfa club authorise a club permit for my (imaginary) Vespa?
Newest to oldest:
 '13 Alfa Mito QV
 '77 Alfasud Ti
 '74 Alfasud Sedan
 '68 1750 GTV
--> Slow and Fun - my Alfa journal

massiveluvbuddy67

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 514
  • AROCA Member #: 1313
I agree with Brad on this one, the approach seems a bit overly restrictive.  If someone owns a late model Alfa and is a member of our club, but also owns a classic non-Alfa I see no reason to make them join another club.  You could reasonably object to people with no Alfas joining just to get plates for their Falcodore, but I'm sure we don't get too many of those anyway.

A different question - can the Alfa club authorise a club permit for my (imaginary) Vespa?

Hi Brad and Evan,

Your point is well made. Unfortunately, we have no hard guideline on this issue. It is worthy of discussion with David Wright and the committee for a definitive approach. At the moment, I can easily validate if a financial member has an Alfa on CPS, I cannot validate they own a non-CPS registered Alfa.

At the moment I am taking the conservative approach until otherwise advised. I will escalate to both David and Ross/the committee for their ruling.

On the Vespa = yes.

I hope to catch up with both of you soon on a drive early in the new year. I have been laying low post the April 2014 AGM.
Best Regards
Phil

Frank Musco

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 420
I currently have one car on an AROCA club permit, a Holden. I used it to tow my unregistered sud to track days. Thought it was a great idea? I wanted to put the sud on the CPS, but a roadworthy for a track car in AROCA?  LOL. Guess you have to know someone...? I know of a sud track car that had to go to another car club to get a club permit. LOL again. So disappointing.

Where is this coming from? Are there more non-alfas than alfas on the CPS in AROCA?  Has someone been caught doing something they shouldn't ...or too many cooks ?

Hope you resolve this quickly, my AROCA renewal is coming up end of march and the holden permit is due end of June, I don't want to be left without a tow car.


If the Holden is your only car under the CPS scheme I would request you join the Holden car club for CPS.


Best Regards
Phil Nash
Club Permit Officer

Should I join a holden car club to be on the safe side, as requested?  pffft.

Can I still compete at AROCA sprints if I'm a member of a holden car club and not AROCA?

Best Regards
Concerned member



Evan Bottcher

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2949
    • Slow and Fun - my Alfa journal
  • AROCA Member #: 2928
I wanted to put the sud on the CPS, but a roadworthy for a track car in AROCA?  LOL. Guess you have to know someone...? I know of a sud track car that had to go to another car club to get a club permit. LOL again. So disappointing.

AROCA has never authorised cars on the club plate scheme without a full roadworthy.  That was a considered decision by the committee for a range of reasons, including liability to the club and authorised officers in the event of an accident related to an unroadworthy car.  If you "know someone" who will write you a dodgy RWC then that would get you through, but that's got nothing to do with the club.

Some clubs are putting cars on club plates without a RWC, and of course there were some clubs who were created solely for the purpose of dodgy club plates!  For this reason Vicroads are (eventually) going to introduce the proposed tightened rules.  In that case you'll only be able to get a car on club plates with a RWC in any club.

Hope you resolve this quickly, my AROCA renewal is coming up end of march and the holden permit is due end of June, I don't want to be left without a tow car.

Agreed this needs to be resolved promptly.

Can I still compete at AROCA sprints if I'm a member of a holden car club and not AROCA?

You'd need to join a CAMS affiliated club in order to get a L2S license, unless I'm mistaken.  Then you could compete in the associate class.   I think the Holden Sporting Car Club of Vic is one.  I note that in order to qualify for the club permit scheme under their club you need to officiate at two of their motorsport events per year.  A lot of clubs apply those restrictions on the club plate scheme - e.g. have to attend X social events, or be in the club for N months before being eligible.  Restrictions that until now haven't been placed on the club permit scheme in our club.

I will still argue that restrictions are unnecessary in our club unless there are genuine signs of abuse.

Newest to oldest:
 '13 Alfa Mito QV
 '77 Alfasud Ti
 '74 Alfasud Sedan
 '68 1750 GTV
--> Slow and Fun - my Alfa journal

massiveluvbuddy67

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 514
  • AROCA Member #: 1313
I currently have one car on an AROCA club permit, a Holden. I used it to tow my unregistered sud to track days. Thought it was a great idea? I wanted to put the sud on the CPS, but a roadworthy for a track car in AROCA?  LOL. Guess you have to know someone...? I know of a sud track car that had to go to another car club to get a club permit. LOL again. So disappointing.

Hi Frank,

Pragmatism will always reign over process.

Your car is already in the AROCA CPS scheme, your Holden renewal will be processed without issue.

I have escalated to Ross, Paul B, Anthony and David for advice on processing non-Alfa CPS applications.
Having said that I am keen to elicit feedback from forum members too.

Some options to get the ball rolling...
If you are a financial AROCA member:
1. Any eligible car or motorbike can apply for AROCA CPS?
2. Only Alfa Romeo cars (are there any motorbikes?) can be put on AROCA CPS?
3. You need to have at least one Alfa on CPS to have other non-Alfas on AROCA CPS?
4. You need to have an Alfa (modern or on CPS) to put a car on AROCA CPS?

We have many non-Alfas on CPS already.

IMHO, option 1 may be the easiest to administer.

Option 3 is a suggestion I have put forth but has an element of restriction that clearly adversely impacts well intentioned club members - see Frank's earlier post.

Option 4 was suggested by Brad and, on reflection, could be a good compromise.

Thoughts please? The CPS is a service for club members and I am confident we have enough senior, mature members who will ensure the CPS process is not abused.

Many Thanks
Phil



« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 11:17:54 AM by massiveluvbuddy67 »

Joe Garra

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 269
My vote is for 4. I have two Alfas, but will eventually have my late Dad's HQ to register.
Now: 164Q
        Giulietta QV
Before : 75
            164
            33 16V
            Sud Ti
            99 Spider
            156 Wagon
            159 Wagon

Victor Lee

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 495
  • AROCA Member #: 944
Why not say you have to be a FULL member of the Club to be eligible for the CPS?  This means owning or regularly driving an Alfa (old or new) as opposed to an Associate member whom does not.  See the Club's Association Rules; number 7.1 for Membership types.

Frank is a full member as he owns an Alfa. So his other car (in this case his Holden) is eligble to go onto the CPS.

If you go financial member criteria only (regardless Full or Associate), then potentially the number of Associate members could go past the 10% of total Associations membership rule (Rule 7.4); thus in breach of our own Rules.
Current Alfas:  Alfa 159 3.2lt Q4; Alfetta GTV6; ES30 SZ (all V6s!);  2015 4C LE.
Past Alfas:      '02 156 2.0lt JTS; '84 Alfetta GTV6; '82 Alfetta GTV 2.0; '85 Alfa 33 1.5 GCL single carb

kaleuclint

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 415
  • AROCA Member #: 4668
Some options to get the ball rolling...
If you are a financial AROCA member (maybe you should own an Alfa as a prerequisite for full membership?  Not sure what the requirement is.):

1. Any eligible car or motorbike can apply for AROCA CPS?  Why not?  Vicroads doesn't have an issue with this.  Naturally RWC should be a requirement in accordance with club policy. My BMW motorcycle has a permit under this regime.

2. Only Alfa Romeo cars (are there any motorbikes?) can be put on AROCA CPS?  Why deny this flexibility to Alfa-owning club members? I'd only support this if administering the non-Alfas represent a workload beyond what is fair and reasonable to impose upon our wonderful volunteer team.

3. You need to have at least one Alfa on CPS to have other non-Alfas on AROCA CPS?  See below.

4. You need to have an Alfa (modern or on CPS) to put a car on AROCA CPS?  Maybe the deal should be that you need to own an Alfa -- either modern or CPS-qualifying -- to have access to CPS for a non-Alfa?  This goes back to my opening premise that to be a full AROCA member you need to own an Alfa?

So for mine, there are two issues here.  One relates to membership criteria and the other to administering the CPS processes.

Happy to support Option 4.

2011 159ti 1750TBi

massiveluvbuddy67

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 514
  • AROCA Member #: 1313
Thank you to all contributors.

All good input thus far.

I have been chatting with Ross and I can confirm the committees desire not to adversely impact any club member. Ross has asked me to develop a "one pager" discussion paper with options and thoughts. I will deliver this asap for the committee to consider so we can provide clarity on non-Alfas in the  AROCA Vic. Club Permit Scheme.

Once I have feedback I will pass it on.

In the meantime please continue to provide your thoughts.

Best Regards
Phil   

Flattop

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Thank you for the invitation to contribute.
I would be best classed as a 'lurker' at AROCA, a potential member and Club permit holder with the AROCA... who has attended AROCA track days as a visitor/pit crew over a number of years and know of the quality of the club and events.

I'm between a rock and hard place with membership, car permits and licence requirements... and this current discussion is pertinent.

We have a modern Alfa along with a non-Alfa track car on the CPS, and I am a L2S holder and would like to take part in events that are closer to Melbourne, (I am a current PIARC member and Comms operator who finds PI too ‘full’ a day now).
I for one would benefit if the AROCA did accept non-Alfa cars on the CPS (and I would hope be able to contribute to the AROCA) .

(Not sure how I would obtain a RWC for a track car to move it from PIARC to the AROCA, but that is another discussion).