New competition rules interpritation

[Justin Jacobs]

Hello all . Since team 'JACOBS' has sent its GT 1.8 to ALFA heaven post PI off , we are beginning with a clean sheet [Photos to appear later#] .The senior driver[team manager,sponsor and mechanic] has recovered from bruising with a few scotches .
Thanks to all PI helpers for on the day with care and recovery for driver and car . Lets just say it was a quiet trip back .
Now my question is this . Is it in the spirit of the 2009' rules to take a GTV6 body and running gear but install a 4 cylinder motor and run in under 2L modified ?
As i read it this would be ok . Those of you with an eye for detail will appreciate why this could be a good combo.
Please share your thoughts .
We will be back either way !

[vin sharp]

I don't see any problem with the spirit of the rules, but given that all the GTV6 running gear (cooling system, wiring loom, driveshafts, cv's, fuel tank, bumpers, sun roof, etc) is heavier than a 4 cyl, I think you would be starting at a disadvantage, and GTV6 has THE worst gear ratios and no LSD......I'm not sure it's quite the direction I would start from by choice.

[Sheldon McIntosh]

Certainly no problem with the spirit of the rules by my reading of them, but along with the problems Vin mentions, you'll also use up one of your allowable modifications, that's assuming you keep standard intake and exhaust.

[Justin Jacobs]

OK this is the kind of info i was after .
Yes i was under the illusion that some of the last GTV6's had LSD , but i stand corrected . My thought was that you would pick up the bigger brakes and LSD [ which would be two of the four changes] as standard .
With weight reduction being one of my four choices i felt i could get away with that particular penalty.
Gear wise with the 50 profile R types was banking on that negating some off the tallness .
The engine swap would count as one change but was trying to get one of the factory turbo motors which again would help over come tall gearing with some decent touque .
Maybe its back to the drawing board !
Shall do my home work a bit better , thanks Vin and Sheldon for keeping it real .

[Alan Hopla]

Justin,

Good to hear that team Jacobs is set for a return.

With regards to the rules how does the following apply to your case.
"Modifications may alter the car in part or whole to the standard specifications of an earlier or later model
of the same series and body shape"

Would the GTV and GTV6 be classed as the same 'body shape'?
If so they are in the same series classification '116'
And are 'earlier or later' models than each other.

If this is the case then you would be able to mix and match to your hearts content with out using any of the freedoms!

Also I'm pretty sure the turbomotor would rule you out of the under 2L class:-)

Hopefully attached is a picture of Bruce before the incident

[vin sharp]

Alan,
Certainly the later, plastic bumper GTV4s and GTV6s should be considered the same body, indeed they both share the 116 chassis number on earlier GTV6s, and 119 on later V6 only.
It is not a problem successfully upgrading a 2lt to V6 running gear, as Claude Botti's  converted blue car shows, but in the appropriate manner for the class.
I don't think that "plastic bumper" models would be any problem, but not any crossover between those and earlier steel bumper cars; i.e. No V6 engines into earlier cars in standard class.

[alfagtv58]

Justin......maaaatee.......group S spec.....you know you want to.

Seriously, I would think it is far easier to put a twin spark transaxle and V6 brakes on an existing 2 Litre car than converting a V6 back to 2 Litre.

[Scott Farquharson]

Yeah, have to agree, much much easier, cheaper and better - the v6's were very heavy - go 2L steel bumper to (eventually) Grp S spec - plenty quick enough, all off the shelf, and tried and proven.

Look at Phil's car! And (what was) mine, really 1:55's at the island is pretty good for a pretty simple 2L Alfetta.  It is a no brainer!

[Justin Jacobs]

Yes can see i am trying to reinvent the wheel ! Interesting all the different takes on what counts for changes .
All i need now is a GT shell , anyone ?
Certainly the vehicle moderfication declarations and first 2009 event scruitineering will be a lengthy process . We will need a bit of man power to effect correct class allocation .
Happy to help in any prework with declarations submitted prior to first event .
Regarding turbos , am i right in saying factory turbo 2L alfettas where sold here up to 82 ' . Does this not mean its a standard engine swap from same series - thoughts ?
We have tape of crash , its quite dramatic so will see if can covert format - chow JJ .

[graemericardo]

hi justin
my car may be of interest to you
look in buy/swap/sell
regards graeme ricardo

[vin sharp]

Scott and Phil are absolutey right about GpS, and the bonus is that if you build a car within the Historic Regulations, it will always have good re-sale value with a broad market (as far as race cars go) either as a complete car or even component form, should you ever decide to re-enact your P.I. efforts!
If you build up a club class bitzer, it only ever has very limited appeal to anyone else at a later date.

[a sharp]

Justin if you install a 2L turbo the the car becomes 3400L with the 1.7 forced induction factor applied. This would move you into over 3000 class and you need 3 drivers in this case to be awarded pionts at a round,and to win the class for the year you need 3 drivers running all year in the class. The only over 3L cars are all recent V6 or V8 powered cars or turbos and we wont see to many of them running in modified for a while yet. The only factory 2L Affetta turbos where the Turbo Delta and none where sold here by Alfa I think and are very  rare, remember that you need the complete orginal engine to run one. there where some after market cars produced by Bennica and Hindoffs but they would fall into racing class as they are after market.