sprint build up

[meizhak]

Hi everyone,

Some history- I was building a 33 race car (only because i couldn't find a sud). luckily enough Ive been that busy that I haven't had time to do much.

Which is good because Ive now come across a 79 sprint in pretty good nick, which I picked up on Saturday and will keep as a road going car. Has fairly fresh 1.5L twin carb, flogged out gearbox and bonus rear disc brakes.

Will stick a good gearbox I have with lsd and get out there and do some events.

I have a s3 33 that i would like to transfer the outboard brakes from, does anyone know exactly which bits I need to mix and match from each car to do this.

I'm impatient so Engine and gearbox are already out and waiting.

thanks

[Evan Bottcher]

I fitted later suspension in the front of my s1 Sud Ti track car and deleted the inboard discs and calipers. 

We swapped the whole front over:
- struts
- front cross member
- all four suspension arms
- driveshafts

I think the rear suspension arms are slightly longer, so it pushes the front wheels forward in the arch.  Gives a bit more castor and a heavier steering feel, but I don't mind the extra stability.  I've been driving it like this for years now, so I'm completely used to it.

There was some debate at the time - not sure if you can fit the rear arms from the Sud combined with the front from the 33 to retain the same castor - I've seen mention of it on the alfaowner forum I think.  We chose to change the whole lot over.

I can't remember now what parts came from which car - the cross member and suspension arms came from a late 1.7 sprint I think.  The struts, driveshafts, vented discs and calipers came from a 16v 1.7 33.

If you delete the discs, you need spacers on the gearbox end of the driveshafts.

[meizhak]

Thanks for the reply Evan.

Where would I get spacers if I needed them or is it something I would have to have made?

Cheers

Meizhak

[Evan Bottcher]

I think they were stock items for one of the breeds of sprint or 33 with outboard discs.  10mm from memory, but my memory is a bit crap.  I got mine from Hugh Harrison at Monza Motors in Melbourne.

[meizhak]

Evan, there is a spacer on the sprint between driveshaft and inboard brake disc. they are 23mm thick.

Attached is a photo, are these the ones you used?

[Frank Musco]

Thats a good find, very neat. Just like my daily driver.

I too have fitted the 16V 33 front suspension to this car. I swapped the same main parts like Evan did. Some of the following may be different as I was replacing the engine and gearbox at the time.

The gearbox is from the 16V 33 with 'outboard brake' drive hubs, so when I assembled it, the drive shafts bolted up as they normally do on outboard braked 33's without spacers.

The brakes I use are the outboard solid rotor fitted to s1-2 33's. Mine are ATE type. I use these with a 5mm wheel spacer to continue using the original steel rims, like the ones on your car.

I also spaced the stabiliser bar down 10mm away from the front cross member because it was just touching the bolts that attach the front suspension arms to the front cross member. Not sure why this was required? I bolted the front cross member directly to the front rails of the car, like it was bolted to the 16V 33, unlike modified sprints where I have seen the entire cross member spaced away from the front rails. ?

[Evan Bottcher]

Evan, there is a spacer on the sprint between driveshaft and inboard brake disc. they are 23mm thick.
Attached is a photo, are these the ones you used?

Those look familiar, but memory says they weren't that thick.  I'd go and climb under the car and check, except it's in lockup storage.  I'll see if Bruno remembers when I see him tonight.

I also spaced the stabiliser bar down 10mm away from the front cross member because it was just touching the bolts that attach the front suspension arms to the front cross member. Not sure why this was required? I bolted the front cross member directly to the front rails of the car, like it was bolted to the 16V 33, unlike modified sprints where I have seen the entire cross member spaced away from the front rails. ?

I used the late model front swaybar, which is smaller diameter and has more kinks in it than the early bar.  Didn't have any clearance problems.  It's now unbolted at one side, as I find better traction on the track without it.  I should remove it, but as I'd have to drop the cross member to do so I haven't got a round 'tuit' yet.

My understanding of why modified sprints and suds space the cross member down is to make the angles of the front suspension arms nearer to horizontal.  Something about the force from the wheels being applied through those arms not being angled upwards.  I'd need an engineer to explain that to me properly!  Frank?  Colin?

[meizhak]

Thanks for the replys,

I have bolted everything up with the spacers above and it seems to be ok. I suppose I wont know till I get it off the hoist onto flat ground. Evan if you could check with Bruno that would be great.

On a bad note, one of the bearings under the spring platform for the steering has come apart. Does anyone know where to get these from?

Can I put series one 33 struts in there to get me going till i can source parts?

Frank, Haven't tried fitting the sway bar yet but have trial fitted my magna/commodore brakes and changed wheel bolts for studs. (pic attached crap quality sorry)

Cheers,

Meizhak

[colcol]

They used to put spacers between the front cross member and body to lower the engine and gearbox, with the added benifit of a lower centre of gravity, this could be easily achieved by putting lowered springs in, when you put spacers between the body and subframe, you need 4 longer front subframe bolts, these are unobtainable as they are specials, unless you go to an engineer and have them make up longer bolts, bloody expensive!, but lowering the subframe straightens the control arms and apparantly cuts out a lot of torque steer, Colin.

[meizhak]

Colin, I have often thought about performing the mods to lower the engine and have also come to a blank with the bolts. If you go to a imperial bolt there is plenty available.

I was going to do that then weld a captive nut of the correct size to the chassis rail.

I have fitted s1 33 struts for now until I rebuild the S3 ones, still unsure of the drive shaft spacers but will sought this out once I have finished brake lines and have it on the ground.

Cheers,

[Sportscar Nut]

Meizhak

I previously sent you the details previously to lower the engine/ gearbox. From memory, I just purchased the longer bolts from a bolt shop in Melbourne (now closed) and don't think they are hard to find.

Colin, Beninca's lowered the engine/ gearbox in my Sud some 16 years ago and was the best mod I have done to the car suspension (should have discussed with you at the 900 night).

All the best.

Paul

[Southern75]

I have only recently done and redone this mod a number of times ..

YES you need the spacer if you use and earlier gearbox designed for inboard brakes ... unless you use them.

I used the latter front cross member but this isn't essential ... just gives different a preferable geometry and greater neg camber.
If you use the latter cross member you must use the latter sway bar.

You can use the earlier rear arms .. they do fit but the castor was something stupid ... didn't look cool at all.

I am only using the 14" speedline wheels and they bolt straigh onto the s3 front end.

I did however get my inserts limited in their travel .. need to do that on the back now more money

[meizhak]

Hi Guys,

Paul, the engine lowering mod is something i definately have on the cards once the car is sorted. I have searched high and low for the bolts in WA but know one has them or reckons they can get them.

Southern75, I am using sud box with 16v susp and outboard brakes. The spacer I have is 23mm thick, does this sound right?

Cheers,

Meizhak

[colcol]

The longer bolts were pre internet, and i searched Melbourne for longer bolts but couldn't find any, but an engineer made some up at great expense, but if you used imperial bolts, you would need to make 4 new captive nuts, they were not on my 33, but a sadly departed Alfasud, the 23mm spacer, would i be right in saying these are used on inboard disc brakes, as some late\early models had the driveshaft bolt to the hub, and others bolted to the disc, and when you purchased rotors you got this spacer to suit whatever setup you had, Colin.

[meizhak]

Colin, The sprint is a 79 model and had the drive shafts that bolt to the hub on the gearbox not the disc.

Im fairly certain its right. Just have to replace stuffed tie rod end, set the wheel alignment and make up some new brake lines