33 CV joint replacement, how hard is it?

[Ben33]

Hi guys,

My front left CV join is pretty much dead... Its begun making some not particilarly pleasant noises recently and when I had a look at it today when changing the brake pads and its pretty obvious it need replacing ASAP...

So what i'm wondering is how hard is it to change one of these yourself? Or should I just find a mechanic and pay them to do it?

Cheers guys,
Ben

[Ben33]

For anyone interested I think i'm going to book it into Mauceri Motors tomorrow to have the CV changed over.

Its $225 including fitting or $154 supply only so for the cost difference I think i'll get them to do it.

Cheers,
Ben

[Sheldon McIntosh]

Sounds pretty reasonable.  For that price I'd stay there and watch how it's done though;  just so's I could do the next one myself.

[Ben33]

As long as they're cool with that (don't see why they wouldn't be) that sounds like a plan Thanks,

[Sheldon McIntosh]

I would imagine it's one of those jobs that takes about an hour if you have all the right gear, but a day if you don't.  

This section of the forum can be a bit of a wasteland.  Generally there are two types of people who drive the boxers.  

The first is the newbies, who buy them cheap and discover how fantastic they are, invariably thinking that they're the first person ever to experience that roar from the twin carbs up front, and the sensation of slicing through corners like a Mini Cooper on E, and of their girlfriend driving it for the first time and saying "wow, you're right, it really does want to go fast".  Usually these people know fuck all about fixing them.

The second type was the first type once upon a time, but are now much richer and older.  These days they still have boxers, but only for racing, and can't be fucked passing on their wisdom because they have far more important things to be doing, and besides, "I learnt it the hard way so I'm sure as hell not going to help you, you fucken muppet".

Luckily, some of my best friends race boxers, so I get good advice (but probably won't from now on).  Otherwise, I would suggest joining alfaowner.com  , that's where I go for most of my boxer advice.

[Andrew Bose]

Sheldon,
you forgot the obvious, we have never had to replace them they do not seem to be a problem. My grey one is showing about 530,000km  and Í have not had to touch them since I bought it at 167,000km even the engine is still not been apart. How is yours going? I believe you have the Musco brothers in your six hour team this year so I hope to point out at length the benefits of a sweet handling FWD vehicles like 33s Suds and Sprints. See you there.

Ben, it sounds like about an hours labour and from looking at mine it seems a fair price. the difficulty depends on how mechanically minded you are and, as Sheldon points out, your tools and workshop set up. If it all comes apart smoothly it is not too hard but if you crunch one knuckle, the money is less painful.
Ask any Ex mechanic.

[Ben33]

You're both spot on, I've been quoted an hours labor. For the cost I think its a good call to get them to do it and watch how its done.

Sheldon, thanks for the post. I would fit into the first of your two catagories, I needed something cheap to lug around camera gear and figured that it may as well be something interesting and i've always wanted to own an Alfa. I love your sumation of the boxer alfa ownership experience, just about spot on really 

However, I am interested in learning how to fix it, that was anouther reason for getting the Alfa, learning how a real car works (mmm carbies) and becoming more mechanically able... You don't get that much of a chance to do too much with the MX-5 and when you do its generally more modifying rather than fixing.

I have noticed that the volume of responses is quite poor on here but at least the quality of them seems quite high. I figure its a good forum to get onto as when time and other commitments allow I want to become involved in the victorian club (although some of you may already know me through my MX-5 at the club track days -I'll be a P.I and willbe sure to say hi!) and come on some EMR's. I just registered on Alfa Owners though and will post a hi, have a look at my car thread soon

Andrew, 530,000kms is very, very impressive considering you've not had major mechanical dramas. I've heard that once you get these right and if you're willing to do the maintainance they're very reliable. Your car really supports that.

[Sheldon McIntosh]

Hey Bose.  Wow, I'm surprised you've never had to do them, must be one of the few things they over-engineered on the 33.  Mine seems to be running okay, although it's developed a miss under load at low revs.  Apparently it's the idle jets?  I only get to drive it a couple of times a week, and usually just to the shops, so it's feeling a little neglected I think.  Still great fun to drive though, puts a smile on my face everytime.  The new seats (from a series II) are fantastic.  Yours is a series II isn't it?  Need any door cards?

Yes the Musco bros have joined me in the winning team, are you managing Trofeo this year?  I'm quite clear on the benefits of a sweet handling FWD vehicle, and I'm keen to get one on the track one day.

Ben, what's the wagon like to drive?

[Ben33]

Sheldon, to be honest i've pretty much fallen in love with it, its such a charcterful fun thing. I really enjoy crusing around in it, makes me smile.

I haven't driven a normal 33 to compare it with but as far as a drivers car I find it increadibly sharp on turn in, especially if you trail brake a little, the corner speeds it can carry are quite impressive (especially considering the crappy tyres). The engine is great, really responsive and I love the pedal placement even if it means I have to drive barefeet if I have my work shoes on. The driving position leaves a little to be desired but its not terrrible... 
Dynamically the only real flaw for me is that it torque steers quite a lot when you give it a bit or when in 2wd mode in the rain. Maybe its just that the only other front wheel drive cars i've driven at lengh are a Pug 206 gti and an 07 Alfa Spider and i'm expecting too much. Though I'm hoping that changing the CV will reduce this and if not I'll try some better tyres than the crappy indonesian things it came with and see if that sorts it out.

The 4x4 system is absolutly awesome, the car feels a bit unstable when its wet in 2wd but engage the 4x4 and the car feels so much more planted and surefooted, its absolutly brilliant!

Likewise I'd be interested in trying it out on the track when its 100% sorted, I think it'd do quite well.

[alfagtv58]

but as far as a drivers car I find it increadibly sharp on turn in

High praise indeed coming from someone who also drives an MX-5 (we still miss ours!)

[philpot]

Sheldon, if the purpose of your comments was to provoke a response, you were succesfull. Bravo.

However, like all generalisations and categorising, it's very foolish to tar everyone with the same brush.

My sud, recently retired to paddock car status at 510 000, has never had its cv's replaced. Repacked yes, but not replaced.
No, my cars are not toys, or track playthings, and short of having to provide my tax returns for the last five years, you' will just have to take my word for it i'm not rich.

Have provided assistance to others enquiries WHEN i've felt able to speak with knowledge or experience. Pretty bloody pointless to just respond for its own sake.

I dont recall any posts where you've asked for help or advice in this section, or offered it; so why bag those that have at least tried?

Insulted? Yes, a bit.   Phil

[Andrew Bose]

Ben, check the bearings on the bottom of the spring pan are working correctly and lower the car till the driveshafts are level and this should remove most of the torque steer. Then replace the tyres with something like the Bridgestone Potenza RE001, they work well and give about twice the mileage of my last set of C Drive Yokohamas. As for mainteance I only own 1.7 Injected boxers as these require the least of all and go the longest due to not having carburettors to wash the oil from the bores and wear them out.


Sheldon, your 33 is not feeling loved, try using the rev limiter more as this is the easiest way to make mine run well. Thanks for the offer but I have recently thrown out the extra door cards I had due to a lack of space. If I end up qualifing my car as a spare for the six hour you are welcome to take it out for a spin then. As for the seats I went straight for a Recaro to drop it down and support me laterally, the series two ones were a bit soft for me as I tend to drive like I stole it. P.S. I must congratulate Joe and Frank for showing you the light!

Andrew

[philpot]

I 'Second' the get better tyres first, before any other mods idea. When i first got my 33ti, put it into a roundabout i know well from driving in my sud and the thing dam near understeered off. Sud was on BFG G-Force Sports, a truly excellent road tyre. 33 when i got it was on firestone 100's or something. Same pressures too.  Put BFG's on it and was transformed! High grip, brilliant turn in and response, wear really well and when the limit is reached let go really progressively.
Bridgestone Adrenalin RE 001's are pretty close and are much more resonably priced as the BFG's have gotten dearer. Sud was running them last.
Re. Torque steer. Good tyres will help reduce it as will having the correct spec toe out, 4mm +/- 2mm.
Assume noisy CV was outer, as they usually are prone to make noise first. Only time had any issues in 450 000km in sud and 100 000km in 33 has been once years ago sud was making all kinds of unpleasant sounds. Mechanics i was using at the time tried to upsell a NOS driveshaft with both CV's again both new. I tried simply repacking with fresh grease and voila! Noise went away.  Quickest $1000 plus fitting i ever saved!
By memory the 33 wagons ran taller springs to provide greater ground clearance, and to cope with the extra 100kg of the 4wd system. A simple solution may be to use standard sedan springs, the firmer springs of the 33 green clover leaf i reckon would be more suited than the standard gold clover leaf versions.  You dont have to spend heaps of money to get big improvements!

[Ben33]

Phil, what model mx5 did you have? Its a bit unfair to compare the two so i wont but I am very impressed with the 33, once you get past the initial vagueness in the steering just off centre its really impressive on the way into corners. I'm still figuring out all of its little dynamic tricks (its the first fwd car i've owned) but the more i drive it the more confident i am to push it a little and every time i do it really impresses me. 

The problem with tyres is that the wagon has 13 inch wheels (175-70-13) so there isn't really much performance rubber available for it. I have a set of re001's on the mx-5's 14' wheels, they're quite a nice grippy tyre when the roads are dry but i've never been sold on their wet weather capabilities. That being said i will try to find something better in 13', its just a question of what is available.

Philpot, you're right in that it is the outer cv that is making the noise.

Ok cool, i'll check out those bearings, thanks Andrew. i'm not so sure about lowering it though. As Philpot says, looking at the wagon it does seem to sit a fair bit higher than a normal 33, though i don't really have much desire to play around with springs at this stage. The mx-5 has aftermarket springs, shocks and bumpstops and sits 30mm lower than stock. To be honest i get sick of it being so low sometimes so its nice to drive a car with a bit of ground clearance as going over speedbumps at angles gets a bit tiresome (its also nice that it has more suspension compliance than a billy cart...) That being said if some inexpensive green clover leaf springs come up for sale i think i'll snap them up regardless and try them out.

A wheel alignment is on the list, toe is the only value which is adjustable on the 33 isn't it? Are the settings 4mm +/- 2mm toe out correct or is it toe in? I run 0.2mm toe out on the front of the mx5 and 0.9mm toe in on the back which is quite aggressive, the car tramlines but turn in is simply awesome and it made the car very adjustable via the throttle. Is this a front wheel drive thing? i can understand that it'd make the car turn in awesomely and the back end quite lively but tyre wear must be terrible?

[philpot]

Yup, Toe Out , the only adjustable for a 33 is 4mm +/-2mm, Sud is 3mm +/-2mm. It does make the tyres wear more , particularly in combo with the neg. camber. But, with the toe out you're right when you talk about the turn in. Running it on spec makes is bite into turns and feel pinsharp. Have had to put up with tyre places always going on about "oh it's too much, you'll scrub out the inside of the tyres..." and running less reduces wear yes, but, makes the handling/steering less and less like an alfa should feel.
Re. Tyres. Maybe try finding some some genuine second hand 14's and getting some good tyres on them. The choice for 185/60 14's is much greater. BF Goodrich G-Force Sports are awesome. Brilliant in dry and wet. Had 4 sets on my cars before giving the Adrenalins a go. The 33 Monte Carlo Wagon had the telephone dial 5.5 X 14" wheels and 185/60 14's as standard, so it's not a big deal.
Relate to the clearance thing, 33 boxer 1.7 16v runs lower, has a greater front overhang and huge wind deflectors in front of the rear wheels. In combo make it a pain, particularly compared to a standard 33ti. The a/c piping and electricals run across under the front crossmember! at the front! If you wanted to make it more vulnerable you'd be hard pressed! Especially in the country. Der...