Roll Cages For Sprint Cars

[John Toomath]

I'm looking for the benefit of years of experience and contacts to summarize for me the lowdown on roll cages.  I'm in my first season of sprints with my stripped out, but still road legal (I hope), Pace/Koni suspended, R type tyred, lowish budget 75 V6.  After seeing the great coverage of the East Coast Challenge, the rolled Sud at Pukekoe and a rolled Mini at Bathurst, I have become more interested in participating in a broader range of events and improving the strength of the car .  Having taken the headlining out, it is now blatantly obvious that the main function of the roof is to keep the rain out, rather than form a solid protective structure.

Since there is no one on the sponsors page in this field, hopefully people can make recommendations on preferred suppliers.  The more I looked at websites and CAMS material, the more confused I got.  My questions include:

1)  Is a half cage an option or are they only acceptable for those that already have them?
2)  Is there an accepted appropriate design for our level of motorsport?
3)  What are the pros and cons around weld in and bolt in cages?
4)  Are cars road legal with cages in Victoria?
5)  Would the recommended design change if during the remaining life of the car it may end up with a 164 or 24 valve V6 in it?
6)  Who offers a good reputation and balance of product and price?
7)  What budget expectation should I be thinking of?
  What weight penalty do you have to accept?

Please offer your contributions to any of the questions you have an opinion on.  I tried a search on the forum without success, so don't think this has been covered recently.

Thanks,
John

[alfagtv58]

Good questions John, I will try to answer them to the best of my ability.  But I would be interested in seeing some more opinions and better educated answers from other members also....

1)  Is a half cage an option or are they only acceptable for those that already have them?
           Yes they certainly are an option, but I thing they are probably more aimed at cars like a Spider or an MX5 etc.
2)  Is there an accepted appropriate design for our level of motorsport?
           Not to my knowledge, but in the 75 I would put a 6 point with a couple of strategic brace points
3)  What are the pros and cons around weld in and bolt in cages?
           I am no expert on this, and it kind of comes down to FIA/CAMS regs and what stage they are at as to what is acceptable and what is not (may as well built it to log book it to open up your options of what you can do with the car, the 75 would be a good 3J car)
4)  Are cars road legal with cages in Victoria?
           Yes, as long as there is appropriate access in and out of the doors.....Best to qualify this from Vic Roads however.
5)  Would the recommended design change if during the remaining life of the car it may end up with a 164 or 24 valve V6 in it?
            No difference in cage design.
6)  Who offers a good reputation and balance of product and price?
            Mark Jamieson at Eastern Racing Fabrications. 0419 696 660
7)  What budget expectation should I be thinking of?
            How long is that piece of string? 2-3K?
  What weight penalty do you have to accept?
            How important is your safety?  Weight will be somewhat offset by removal of carpets, underfelt, tar.  Not to mention the gained strength of the chassis and how much better the car will handle as a result

[Gary Pearce]

John I couldn't recommend higher, the quality, price and workmanship from Colin Byrne. He made and fitted my cage to CAMS spec.
Trouble is, would he design and make one for a 75. You could ask him?

[Sheldon McIntosh]

John I couldn't recommend higher, the quality, price and workmanship from Colin Byrne. He made and fitted my cage to CAMS spec.
Trouble is, would he design and make one for a 75. You could ask him?

Well I know he won't do a cage for a 90....

[Fast Eddie]

John,
another tip re "roadworthiness" of a roll caged car in VIC - you should have the "seating capacity" record of fact changed on your VicRoads file to a 2-seater as it is illegal in Vic to sit passengers in the rear of a car fitted with ROPS.

Not a difficult task, you can do this at any VICRoads office without taking the car with you as there is a record amendment form that has this as a recognised option.
(if they want to see the car - to ensure the rear seatbelts have been removed and bolts welded into the resulting holes, do as i did and  rock up in my suit and told em i have to drive customerss around all day in my work car so it wasnt possible to bring the "race" car" in, which the supervisor accepted allowing me to sign a "stat-dec" stating that i would bever permit anyone to sit in the rear of the car.

Getting pulled over with your records still showing up as a 4 seater technically is a roadworthiness failure and you can be "canaried".

I've made this record change in VIC twice.

[Scott Farquharson]

The first questions is whether you ever intend to compete in an event that requires a roll or safety cage  - ie. a race or tarmac rally

If the answer is yes then you can only install a cage based on Schedule J of the CAMS manual.  In a 75 this would be a 6 point (minimum) cage using a combination of the designs in the manual or if you wanted to use cromoly then you would need an engineer or a previously homologated design (very expensive).

Technically any cage used in a CAMS event must comply with schedule J or have stewards approval, however this rule is seldom enforced.

If it will only ever be used at sprints then in reality you do have more freedom however I would not suggest doing anything other than what is in Schedule J.

Answers below:

1)  Is a half cage an option or are they only acceptable for those that already have them?

Schedule J only allows a half cage in an open car (MX5, MG etc)  however for sprints this would be better than nothing even in a closed car.  You cannot do any event that requires a roll cage in a closed car with a half cage.  As i said better than nothing but does not comply with Schedule J.

2)  Is there an accepted appropriate design for our level of motorsport?

Schedule J of the CAMS manual, and within that there is a minimum design.  Again as there is no requirement for a cage at a sprint event and given the non-enforcement at sprint events of the requirement for schedule j cage where a cage is fitted, you could vary this design however I think to vary from the designs in the manual without an engineer is dangerous and would add/save nothing.  The minimum CAMS design is a good comprimise between weight and protection.  This design is a 6 point cage, bracing to the the main hoop, side intrusion bars and roof bracing.  I would also add bracing to the backstays and to the firewall.

This is the design I have used in a number of GTV's and GTV6's.  Don't forget that in racing events where cages are mandatory, racing increases the risk of rollover becuase of the increased likelihood due to cars being in close proximity - it doesn't change the consequence of the rollover - a rollover at a sprint event can be just as bad as a rollover at a race - it's just less likely.  A design that is minmum for racing is just as applicable for sprints.

3)  What are the pros and cons around weld in and bolt in cages?

Welded are stronger, bolt in can be removed but are much more expensive.  If the car is a race car, ie it will never ever go back to be a "road" car then weld the thing in.  Stonger and cheaper.

4)  Are cars road legal with cages in Victoria?

Yes, they can be but there are certain criteria - eg side intrusion bars must be no higher than the base of the seat.  The cage builder can advise - there is also a leaflet available from Vicroads - i have attached a version from 2000 which i think is still current (whoop's - file too big - can't attach - go to vicroads website).  Ditto Ed's comments.

5)  Would the recommended design change if during the remaining life of the car it may end up with a 164 or 24 valve V6 in it?

Probably not.  The basic design discussed above would be fine.  Schedule J applies across all classes of racing and types of vehicles.

6)  Who offers a good reputation and balance of product and price?

Agree with Phil.  Mark is a genius with metal and has done a lot of alfa's.

7)  What budget expectation should I be thinking of?

I'd budget $3k.

  What weight penalty do you have to accept?

For the basic design probably adding around 30-40kgs but you could offset that somewhat with removal of the intrusion bars in the doors.

Please offer your contributions to any of the questions you have an opinion on.  I tried a search on the forum without success, so don't think this has been covered recently.

Thanks,
John

[John Toomath]

John I couldn't recommend higher, the quality, price and workmanship from Colin Byrne. He made and fitted my cage to CAMS spec.
Trouble is, would he design and make one for a 75. You could ask him?

Do you think that if I mention that my Dad has had a step nose 105 since 1972 that might sway him?    How else do you think I caught this alfaitis from the age of 8? 

Thanks for the input clearing much of the regulatory fog. The thorough answers and recommendations are appreciated.  Looks like I'll have to commit myself to another 10 years with the car to average the cost out. Low though the risk is in the sprint format we run, I'd prefer not to have an "if only" moment. I'm not really an on the edge racer, but would like to enjoy pushing towards the boundaries of my limited capabilities and also be able to consider other formats.

[Brad M]

Well I know he won't do a cage for a 90....

Surely the payment of a 90 would have swayed him 

[Fast Eddie]

Just one?  What for one side intrusion bar?