Author Topic: 75 3.0L Vs Potenziata  (Read 40412 times)

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aggie57

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Re: 75 3.0L Vs Potenziata
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2012, 02:56:10 AM »
Auto's had the early 2.5 style grille with non-impact bumpers.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2012, 02:59:51 AM by aggie57 »
Alister
14 Alfa's since 1977. 
Currently 1973 GTV 2000, a couple of Mercs,  a '14 Beetle (yes, seriously......), 2020 911 C2S (manual!)
Gone......far to many to list

1969read

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Re: 75 3.0L Vs Potenziata
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2012, 09:33:27 AM »
autos state side had 3.0 bumpers with early grill as well

Anthony Miller

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Re: 75 3.0L Vs Potenziata
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2012, 10:54:00 AM »
All U.S. 75s had Impact absorbing bumpers AKA "America" bumpers, only us antipodeans call them 3.0l bumpers, even the 1.8l turbo has "america" bumpers, this change was accompanied by the relocation of the fuel tank from under the floor of the boot to behind the rear seat. 1988 saw, in Australia, the 2.5L v6 replaced by the 3.0l and the twinnie with both sporting the upgraded aerodynamics package ie wheelarch flares and lip spoiler and gauzed grill.
Now-  '99 156 2.5l V6 (rosso)
         '88 75 3.0l V6 (grigio)
Then- '81 Giulietta 2.0l transplant (ol whitey)
         '82 Giulietta 2.0l transplant (ol brownie)
         '82 Giulietta 2.0l TS transplant (ol red)

aggie57

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Re: 75 3.0L Vs Potenziata
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2012, 01:51:23 PM »
Sadly the auto here had the wheel arch extensions and boot lid spoiler but kept the small underfloor fuel tank.  At least that's what I recall - if my memory is wrong I'm sure someone will correct me.  Reason I have that memory is that the range was woeful.  Small tank, 3-speed transmission, small engine.  It should have had a 3-litre with 4 speed but at the time I was told the available 4-speeds would not fit under the floor and the 3-speed would not handle the larger engine.

Now that's all likelyhood a theory of course and sorry for taking the thread more off topic........
Alister
14 Alfa's since 1977. 
Currently 1973 GTV 2000, a couple of Mercs,  a '14 Beetle (yes, seriously......), 2020 911 C2S (manual!)
Gone......far to many to list

VeeSix

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Re: 75 3.0L Vs Potenziata
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2012, 02:57:46 PM »
Hello Bteoh

That is not my Potenziata, i thought i would just throw a picture in for interest, that one is actually a American model with the extra safety lights, now our Australian Potenziatas Bteoh did not come with blinkers in the front of the bumper but the sides did come with the side marker lights cut out, we just recieved blanks instead of the lights, out of interest you can actually remove the blanks and purchase and insert the side marker lights, amber in the front bumper and red in the rear  ;)
1985 Alfa Romeo GTV6 V6 2.5 12V 
1986 Alfa Romeo 90 V6 2.5 12V
1990 Alfa Romeo 75 V6 3.0 12V Potenziata
1990 Alfa Romeo 164 V6 3.0 12V Zender
1991 Alfa Romeo 164 V6 3.0 12V QV
1992 Alfa Romeo 164 V6 3.0 12V QV

DaveB

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Re: 75 3.0L Vs Potenziata
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2012, 01:21:06 PM »
In part summarising the comments above, and altho I'm no expert, bringing my 13 years of 75 ownership:
(bought my first 3L in 1999)

Compared to the 3L 75, the Potenziata has:

Motronic ECU with crank angle sensor, different compression, more open exhaust manifolds, 164 cams & probably different head flow. (More power)
Water pump pulley bolted on not pressed, no cold start injector.
LS Diff, lower gear ratios, heavier rear drive axles.  
More coils in the back springs, possibly heavier front torsion bars, 15" teledial wheels. (Better ride)
The cloverleaf badge on the LHS rear, with white on red or red on red indicators.
The potenziata grille is as a late model TS. Some 3L grilles have v6 3L chrome script on the bottom RHS.

Inside, the cloth is darker, the front seat back wings give much more chest support and the headrests are fixed.
There are a factory stitched leather steering wheel and gearstick handle, in standard 75 style.
The instrument panel and overhead switches are white with green illumination.
The Potenziata borrows much from the late model TS.

Also:
JimK seems to be of the opinion that Alfa underquoted the Potenziata power.
There are certainly similarities with the UK Cloverleaf 75 and the USA Milano Verde, but I can't be sure.
I read that the UK Cloverleafs mostly have sunroofs, like our 3L.  I have only heard of one Au Potenziata with a factory option sunroof.

I am told that less than 50 Potenziatas came to Australia, and only about 10 remain registered.
Confusion arises for 3L owners who have been told they have a Potenziata.
_______________________________________

IMHO the ultimate DIY 75 will be a twinspark for lower gear ratios & LSD (as found in the Potenziata), fitted with an inboard 3L petrol tank, & 164 motor (3L 75 crank & modified engine mount points required) & big brakes.  Or a 3.5L AHM upgrade or a Greg Gordon supercharger.

Of course, when the factory went racing they turbocharged a 4 cyl (not TS) nord, and experimented with multiple valve layouts.
It seems that, after about 275 HP, the guibos start to fail, and when that is cured (use braces or solid BMW or Corvette style guibos) the front gets torn out of the transaxle & diffs fail.
The IMSA race cars were massively reinforced in this area.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 09:03:42 AM by DaveB »
DaveB

AR75's TS 2.0 & 3L Potenziata (Daily Drivers)
1950 Pug 203
Previously possessed by:
  Sud, 105 Coupe & Berlina, 75V63L
With a bit of Brera on the side

Anthony Miller

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Re: 75 3.0L Vs Potenziata
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2012, 01:47:38 PM »
Hey Dave, I'm glad you've joined this thread because I wanted to ask you why the twinnie over the Potenziata but if I asked in your For sale thread I'd get a spanking from the Moderators. Most go the other way from twinnie to 3.0l and from what I've seen here and on the English forum you've been a champoin of the V6 for quite a while. Just curious
Now-  '99 156 2.5l V6 (rosso)
         '88 75 3.0l V6 (grigio)
Then- '81 Giulietta 2.0l transplant (ol whitey)
         '82 Giulietta 2.0l transplant (ol brownie)
         '82 Giulietta 2.0l TS transplant (ol red)

DaveB

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Re: 75 3.0L Vs Potenziata
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2012, 02:01:33 PM »
Hey Anthony

Glad to hear you cruise AlfaRomeo75

The TS makes more sense for me since I got my new job.  I drive a ~7 klm triangle every day.
Home - work - town / school.  A V6 needs regular highway / freeway kilometres / alfa tuneups.

For me, the TS is better at the short trips, and now I have 6 cars, I have family & their time to consider.
IMHO, the TS handles far better than a 3L, but only a little better (in the really twisty stuff) than the Potenziata.

HTH, David
« Last Edit: February 28, 2012, 02:05:15 PM by DaveB »
DaveB

AR75's TS 2.0 & 3L Potenziata (Daily Drivers)
1950 Pug 203
Previously possessed by:
  Sud, 105 Coupe & Berlina, 75V63L
With a bit of Brera on the side

VeeSix

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Re: 75 3.0L Vs Potenziata
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2012, 02:27:32 PM »
Hello DaveB

Great Potenziata information there, i will check your mentioned mechanical stuff in the next few days comparing it to my regular 3lt

In refernce to your other comments -

My Potenziata came with red on red tail lights, my favourite anyway, really good on a red vehicle, continuing colours, she also came with a factory sunroof but as you mentioned this may have been a option, any Potenziatas out there with no sunroof???  ???

I DaveB also have a regular 3lt 75, it is not a Potenziata and came with the white paint green illumination switches and solid headrests and i can not see any differences between them and the Potenziata seats other than the cloth colour, grey regular 3lt black Potenziata

Chrome script on front grille, no way, definantly wrong never ever seen it, never seen any chrome script on any 75 front grille ever  :)
1985 Alfa Romeo GTV6 V6 2.5 12V 
1986 Alfa Romeo 90 V6 2.5 12V
1990 Alfa Romeo 75 V6 3.0 12V Potenziata
1990 Alfa Romeo 164 V6 3.0 12V Zender
1991 Alfa Romeo 164 V6 3.0 12V QV
1992 Alfa Romeo 164 V6 3.0 12V QV

DaveB

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Re: 75 3.0L Vs Potenziata
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2012, 02:37:36 PM »
Hi VeeSix

The red on red tailights look great, I agree.
Interested to hear you have a 3L with green / white instruments & the late model seats in different trim.
What year is this?

All the Aus 3L I have seen have sunroofs, but not on Potenziata.  Think a solid roof helps stiffen the body.
My 1988 3L had the grille script. I took a year to find it in in Adelaide, and it was very original, bought it from the 2nd owner.

Have you heard anything about how many potenziatas there are or were?

DB

« Last Edit: February 28, 2012, 02:41:30 PM by DaveB »
DaveB

AR75's TS 2.0 & 3L Potenziata (Daily Drivers)
1950 Pug 203
Previously possessed by:
  Sud, 105 Coupe & Berlina, 75V63L
With a bit of Brera on the side

VeeSix

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Re: 75 3.0L Vs Potenziata
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2012, 02:48:20 PM »
Hello Dave B

Yes i think the red on red is the ultimate choice in 75 tail lights, then the white on red of course and i think the first series 75 tail lights are ghastly

You must remember Dave B that as with the 75 Twin Sparks there were two series of 75 regular 3lt, the first series had the orange dials and switches and the second series Twin Spark and 3lt had the white dials and switches, also to note my regular 3lt is a second series 3lt and it has a sunroof but it is a aftermarket one, it did not come with one from the factory, it is a 1989 model

Yes more solid i guess without a sunroof but there is nothing like crusing the country and mountains in a 75 with a open sunroof and windows and nice sounding exhaust

Your grille intrigues me, you will have to upload me a photo please!!!!!!!

No unsure about Potenziata numbers, would love to know offical numbers, colours and sunroofs with or without

How many Potenziata owners are on the forum and what colour is your Potenziata???  ???
« Last Edit: February 28, 2012, 02:57:07 PM by VeeSix »
1985 Alfa Romeo GTV6 V6 2.5 12V 
1986 Alfa Romeo 90 V6 2.5 12V
1990 Alfa Romeo 75 V6 3.0 12V Potenziata
1990 Alfa Romeo 164 V6 3.0 12V Zender
1991 Alfa Romeo 164 V6 3.0 12V QV
1992 Alfa Romeo 164 V6 3.0 12V QV

VeeSix

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Re: 75 3.0L Vs Potenziata
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2012, 02:59:35 PM »
So Mr Beatle are you still Alfaless? You say you have had a Twin Spark do you think you may convert to a Potenziata?
1985 Alfa Romeo GTV6 V6 2.5 12V 
1986 Alfa Romeo 90 V6 2.5 12V
1990 Alfa Romeo 75 V6 3.0 12V Potenziata
1990 Alfa Romeo 164 V6 3.0 12V Zender
1991 Alfa Romeo 164 V6 3.0 12V QV
1992 Alfa Romeo 164 V6 3.0 12V QV

Duk

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Re: 75 3.0L Vs Potenziata
« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2012, 03:02:17 PM »
My Potenziate doesn't have a sun  roof.

The Yanky market Milano Verde's sound very similar to the pre-Potenziata 75's. They only sold until 1989 there and no Motronic system made it into Milano's from the factory.

I doubt that the Potenziata's had better ports in them unless the pre-Potenziata's were particularly awful, 'cuase the ports in my heads are not well finished at all. The inlet runners were even worse. If Alfa were interested in making these more powerful, they could have done a lot more by attending to the quality of the head manufacturing.

My torsion bars measure 22.8mm which is standard for the V6 cars.

DaveB

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Re: 75 3.0L Vs Potenziata
« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2012, 03:05:24 PM »
Yes indeed, early and late versions of the 3L, not surprisingly with the late 3L sharing with the late TS.

Its unlikely any photos survive of my 1988 3L grille, it was pre digital cameras and the car has been dismantled to make a 3L GTV6.
It was however a late series style grill.

I enjoyed the sunroof car too, especially cruising in the moonlight out west, but it takes constant work to keep it closing & opening properly.
A potenziata register would be great, & not take up too much space  ;D

It does seem that the cars evolved over time, it would be interesting to know when the dark interior first appeared here.
It was seen in Europe much earlier, in the 'specials', IIRC, like the turbo Evo.
DaveB

AR75's TS 2.0 & 3L Potenziata (Daily Drivers)
1950 Pug 203
Previously possessed by:
  Sud, 105 Coupe & Berlina, 75V63L
With a bit of Brera on the side

VeeSix

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Re: 75 3.0L Vs Potenziata
« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2012, 03:14:03 PM »
Yes intersting Duk, i can not remember my header pipes being any different from regular headers, the Potenziata may have been a way to dress up the final 75s to clear them out, still love mine anyway, alot of fun and you can easily make a Potenziata up from any other 75, but there is nothing like having a original one and why not they are so cheap now, easily affordable for any budget, love the tranaxle Alfa Romeos in V6, same applies to a GTV6 Grand Prix i guess but they are much priceier, i purchased a $1000 GTV6 with a cream interior and a Grand Prix bodykit for $400, nothing different i guess except the purchase price, but great to have the original  :)
1985 Alfa Romeo GTV6 V6 2.5 12V 
1986 Alfa Romeo 90 V6 2.5 12V
1990 Alfa Romeo 75 V6 3.0 12V Potenziata
1990 Alfa Romeo 164 V6 3.0 12V Zender
1991 Alfa Romeo 164 V6 3.0 12V QV
1992 Alfa Romeo 164 V6 3.0 12V QV