v6 conversion

[BradGTV]

thanks aggie,
so i guess i will be using the non-isotalic shifter then 
i will be putting the whole dedion and transaxle assembly from the gtv6 in the gtv, so wont need to worry about the half shafts ect. the clutch shouldnt be too much of an issue. so will i need to put the gtv clutch set up on the v6 box or can i just use the v6 clutch system from the gtv6?

one thing i need to know is if the gtv6 gearbox will work with the gtv speedo??
cheers, Brad

[bt46]

Hi Brad

The isostatic gearlever will not fit in an 83 GTV. I have a 83 GTV with a TS gearbox with isostatic and tried to fit it but the gear selector rod can't connect with the isostatic gear lever because the cross member that the torsion bars fit into gets in the way. Most people I have spoken to just use the original gear lever and the original linkages attached to the new box. I want to use the isostatic linkages because mine are in great condition so I am going to see if I can modify the length of the gear lever enough to give room for connection whilst still providing the range of motion required for the isostatic linkages.

And the TS engine is a better conversion in my humble opinion. It provides close to the power of a 2.5 but without the weight so similar performance but it has motronic (very smooth) and keeps the perfect weight distribution. It is also a very simple conversion. It doesn't have that sound however...

To get the non isostatic shift rod to connect to the isostatic shift lever you need to bend the shift rod in order to clear the cross member. You also need to open up the end where it connects to the shift lever. It is a fantastic mod that really tightens up the feel of the gearbox.

[aggie57]

thanks aggie,
so i guess i will be using the non-isotalic shifter then 
i will be putting the whole dedion and transaxle assembly from the gtv6 in the gtv, so wont need to worry about the half shafts ect. the clutch shouldnt be too much of an issue. so will i need to put the gtv clutch set up on the v6 box or can i just use the v6 clutch system from the gtv6?

one thing i need to know is if the gtv6 gearbox will work with the gtv speedo??
cheers, Brad

I'm pretty sure you'll want to use the complete GTV6 gearbox/clutch assembly but you'd also want to make sure the clutch is single plate (75 style) rather than the original GTV6 twin-plate.  Or make sure the twin-plate system is in good working order before you put it in.  If it was me I'd be opening up the gearbox as well and checking / replacing the synchro rings and sleeves as needed. 

Can't comment on the speedo sorry. Never had that problem.

[BradGTV]

thanks again guys, i will sort the shifter out when i have the engine out and see what fits a what doesnt,
i wont be rebuilding the gearbox,  the gtv6 gearbox does not crunch gears and the clutch doesnt slip. so i cant see the point.

[wankski]

Hi Brad,

If you do go the megasquirt option let me know - i have a 95% complete (passed the stimulator test stage) megasquirt v2.2 (i posted an ad here a while ago with deets) - can be upgraded to II - spark and fuel by removing chip and installing MS II daughter board.

I also have the low-z injector flyback board and alu case for it... I will ditch it all waaaay below cost to a fellow alfisti - i would perfer to see it live as intended in a gtv6 rather than in my closet.

(sorry for the spam)

Cheers,

Joe

[Mike]

The isostatic gearlever will not fit in an 83 GTV. I have a 83 GTV with a TS gearbox with isostatic and tried to fit it but the gear selector rod can't connect with the isostatic gear lever because the cross member that the torsion bars fit into gets in the way. Most people I have spoken to just use the original gear lever and the original linkages attached to the new box. I want to use the isostatic linkages because mine are in great condition so I am going to see if I can modify the length of the gear lever enough to give room for connection whilst still providing the range of motion required for the isostatic linkages.
quote]

I used the isostatic on my 76 Alfetta GT, pretty easy mod.  The isostatic lever needs to be shortened and a kick put in it to clear the mount under the center bearing.  The rear floor as someon mentioned previously does require a 15cm diamter (ish) cross section to be removed from where th floor kicks up (be very carefull not to cut through your brake lines....).  You will be rewarded for your efforts with quite a nice shift.

And the TS engine is a better conversion in my humble opinion. It provides close to the power of a 2.5 but without the weight so similar performance but it has motronic (very smooth) and keeps the perfect weight distribution. It is also a very simple conversion. It doesn't have that sound however...[/

Anyone who has driven a steel bumper Alfetta GTV or sedan will know that the V6 makes for a MUCH more entertaining package than the twinspark...due to the toque of the thing.  It changes the car from peaky to punchy and sideways out of corners ifs only a prod of the accelerator away...and that noise....oh so sexy.  V6 all the way, thicker torsion bars and liberal right foot and you can drive around a little more weight in the nose...steering will get a little heavier though.  For ultimate balance...yes, twin spark is nice, but it's not really a cheap conversion, I'd bolt a supercharger to the stock single spark motor before I went down that path.

[BradGTV]

cheers, Mike,
good to hear the v6 will be a wise choice 
u havnt had a chance to test the manifold flange, yet have you? just checking cause im getting my mate to draw me one, if you already have done one it will save a bit of time...
cheers, Brad

[Storm_X]

I think you should strip the gv6 and then you will have no choise to just do it and and just play it as it goes.

[BradGTV]

yep thats the plan, and if not i will just put all the running gear up on a rack in the workshop ready for a rainy day  but im 99% sure this conversion is going to happen 

[bt46]

Personally I believe that any benefit from the isostatic system is brought about by the longer lower half of the shift lever. I don't think I have ever felt an isostatic system that's any better than a well set up 'original system', but i will add that I have never played with one that has been new or 100% refurbished. If you look at the isostatic linkages and watch them work it's pretty much a complete abortion as far as i'm concerned. Usually the rollpin holding the main part of the sytem onto the selector shaft has way too much play. Add all the play in the individual components and it turns out to be worse than the original selector arm that's bolted solid onto the splines of the selector shaft. Just my opinion, but use the original selector shaft and modify the selector rod so that it works with the isostatic gear lever. I have set up a few like that on my own cars and I have never felt a better linkage set up in any other transaxle alfa.
Also, most of the play that is felt is actually inside the box and is just a function of the selector rings and their mechanism.

Edit: I was thinking about this in the middle of the night (very sad I know) and came to the conclusion that the isostatic system did achive some of its intended goals in the sense that it refined the feel of the gear change/gate by removing the weight/springyness for people with bitch arms. This is apt as the GTV6 is a much refined car compaired to an early GTV. What it didnt do was remove the old spoon in a bowl.

[Mike]

Edit: I was thinking about this in the middle of the night (very sad I know) and came to the conclusion that the isostatic system did achive some of its intended goals in the sense that it refined the feel of the gear change/gate by removing the weight/springyness for people with bitch arms. This is apt as the GTV6 is a much refined car compaired to an early GTV. What it didnt do was remove the old spoon in a bowl.

I think he's trying to say I have bitch arms :-)

Fair call about the gearshifter shifter length/pivot point, I also noticed this, cuts down the throw which is nice.  I think you must have been playing with fogged out isostatic shifters though, as mine has no looseness (I did remake one bush) and consequently feels very good....still i have not tried the combo you suggest, but I'll put it to you that Alfa must have felt that simply putting in a longer shifter was not enough and that the extra expense of a isostatic linkage was worth it....

Personally I like MD's approach, piss of the linkage and run a shaft in bearings inside the car....that'll fix it!

[bt46]

Lol Mike .....No I didn't mean you. Just people who complain about that nice heavy mechanical feel in general. Alfa may well have engineered the isostatic linkages under good intention, but that's not to say they got it right. There are several things on the alfetta, as with any car, that one has to shake their head at and wonder why. I was looking for the fuse for the central locking on the delta today.... Found it under the gear shift. Of course that's where it would be! I'm so stupid. Lol.

[Mike]

Yes so stupid....under the shifter is a new one that's for sure!  Well I would stop short of saying Alfa knew what they were doing when it comes to electrics...I guess it's not the electrical departments fault they assumed that earths would be attached to metal...not some oxide.

[Storm_X]

hay brad if i could get my hands on a complete running alfa 74 twin spark you intrested in any parts ?

[GTVeloce]

I spent the weekend playing around with the original alfetta gearlever and I managed to make it work with the isostatic linkages merely by grinding away at some of the surrounds, allowing the necessary extra throw. I now have a fully functioning system that didn't require any modifications to the gearbox.