Hi all,
Looking at refreshing the suspension in my giulia super. The steering is a little woolly and it's due for some new bushes. Has anyone else done this? Any words of advice? I'll probably end up using the below kits. Has anyone got any feedback on classic alfa and their parts? Any suggestions on anything else to do while down there or any tricks?
http://www.classicalfa.com/products/SU135-Front-suspension-bush-kit-standard.html
http://www.classicalfa.com/products/SU133-FRONT-SUSPENSION-BALL-JOINT-KIT.html
http://www.classicalfa.com/products/SU132-COMPLETE-SET-OF-6-TRACK-ROD-ENDS.html
http://www.classicalfa.com/products/SU137-REAR-SUSPENSION-BUSH-KIT-%252d-STANDARD.html
Thanks,
Andrew
Hi Andrew,
I don't know about those particular kits, but I can certainly recommend their service.
I ordered some hoses and fuel filters for my 105 coupe on a Friday afternoon, had a short email exchange about availability of one of the hoses on Friday night and collected the package from DHL on Monday afternoon.
I'm not sure how you could beat a two day turnaround time to Australia from the UK. (I only had to collect because DHL don't do two deliveries here on Mondays.)
Top service.
Steve
Adelaide
Hi mate,
Many recommend replacing the upper arm inboard bush with a spherical joint (exactly the same unit as the two you use on the lower A-arms.) they're a direct fit and stiffen that joint up. they'll also transmit more noise though, so depends on your intended use for the car.
I recently did mine with a view to a fast road setup (and have since done a track day and now I'm on the slippery modified slope I think) but did exactly what you're doing, replaced all the tie rods, the two lower ball joints, fitted adjustable upper arms and new castor bushes. was really happy with the result.
One thing that did happen though - the upper arm to castor rod bushes failed on both my (new) arms - possibly because there's supposed to be two plastic pieces that fit into the bush and sit between it and the castor arm 'fork' - I think earlier cars needed these (like mine) and later cars didn't.. it might depend more on the type of bush fitted to the upper arm than the castor arm itself. Confused ? I was too :) I pressed the failed (new) ones out, and re-used the original ones and problem solved.
You probably know this, but you can use the pressure of the front springs to pop the lower ball joints out of the uprights - just loosen the balljoint nut off a few turns (but leave them well threaded on) and then give the side of the upright where the ball joint taper fits in a good tap with a hammer and it should pop loose but be held in place by the nut.
Hope some of that helps :)
Cheers,
Scott.
Andrew
Might be worth including your steering box while you are going over the front end and replacing bushes/joints. Steering boxes are one of the forgotten/ignored items
Good luck
Barry
x 2 on Barry's comments
The steering box is a fairly precision piece of equipment and is almost always overlooked and neglected. However overhauling them is not that difficult and can be a very satisfying job, there are some great threads on AlfaBB about how to go about it. The steering box will undoubtable be the cause of the "woolly" steering feeling.
As for the Bushes, I'm sure that the quality of the classic alfa stuff is right up there, but also consider super pro stuff bushes (made in Aus and available through some of our club sponsors). I've used many different types in the rally car and now everything is super pro, every time I pull something apart the bushes looks as good as the day they went in, and they substantially reduced compliance.
The parts have arrived! Ordered monday afternoon & arrived today. Excellent turnaround and communication from Classic Alfa.
Just a question, i have no idea what 'studding' is and how to use it for the front suspension. Can anyone suggest alternate methods for compressing the front suspension to change the ball joints Apparently regular spring compressors don't work in such a confined space.
Thanks,
Andrew
"Studding" is allthread or threaded rod.
Oh yeah, I replace 2 diagonally opposite spring pan bolts with foot (maybe longer, would have to go measure) long pieces of 5/16 high tensile threaded rod and suitable nuts, and a piece of heavy wall steel tube joining the bottom of the rods. You can then put the trolley jack between the steel tube and the spring pan, load the trolley jack up against the pan, undo the remaining bolts and lower the jack. Reverse for installation.
Thanks for that. Going to bunnings to try and knock a set up myself.
Andrew
So it turns out hardly any places stock high tensile rods. Anyone have a set they want to lend a fellow alfisti?
Gold coast or brisbane preferable...
Thanks,
Andrew
Hi All, High tensile allthread is not necessary to do the job you intend to do, I'm not even sure that that type of allthread is even manufactured. The standard mild steel allthread you can get from Bunnings is more than adequate to do the job of holding compressed the front springs on your 105 enough to enable release of the spring pan bolts, not difficult but patience needed to wind the nuts up and down to compress and uncompress the springs during removal. I use three seperate rods rather than just two. I suppose you can use four if you really value your LED headlight cap but to each their own!. This subject has had lots of prior threads and posts over the course of the Club Website so if you want to peruse the last 100 pages in Technical you will find this subject covered in great detail many times and much more informative than a standard Workshop Manual.................Cheers.....Ian
I used high tensile initially to reduce the wear on the rods when using the running the nuts technique, low tensile should be OK for the jack technique or a limited number of uses of the nut technique... have seen home made compressors fail through wear... not pretty!
I was researching HT threaded rod for another project and found a supplier:
http://www.blackwoods.com.au/part/01472309/allthread-rod-ht-cl88-blk-1mtrx8mm
This link is for 8x1.25 but they appear to stock a range of sizes and several locations through Qld.
Should also mention many years ago I had the pleasure of borrowing a low mileage Super for a weekend. What a joy to drive. Just so sweet handling, steering and ride. And such a contrast to the worn out 105's we had become used to driving. It was a standard car, nothing altered.
Failure through wear -> not a tensile strength issue, but lack of thread lubrication and possibly thread quality (formed threads vs cut threads). Use a high-stress grease and a coarse thread and you'll get more joy for less $$.
Very sensible advice CJ!............ a little lubrication will work wonders....on anything! .........mostly.
Quote from: cjheath on December 31, 2012, 02:22:54 PM
Failure through wear -> not a tensile strength issue, but lack of thread lubrication and possibly thread quality (formed threads vs cut threads). Use a high-stress grease and a coarse thread and you'll get more joy for less $$.
Higher tensile strength materials resist wear better than mild steel, especially galling type failures.
Interesting read for we amateurs:
http://www.fastenal.com/content/documents/FastenalTechnicalReferenceGuide.pdf
I did both the front and rear suspensions on my GTV about 18 months ago - very well worth the effort.
I guess by now you are finished but see http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=7789.0 for photos of the spring removal. I used standard tensile threads and ditched them when I'd finished.
Chris