Who's got a budget video camera installed in the rocket and you are happy with the sound and image quality.?
What model is it?
How much moola ?
Any test reports about it anywhere?
I wanna stick one in the Cab and record all my dumb ass moves.. :D
Cheers.
MD,
If the budget stretches to about $100.00 ( more if you don't want the uber cool pink model) for the camera & about $10.00 for some aluminum pieces here's the deal for you.
Camera & Review Kodak Zi6 From Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_9?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=kodak+zi6&sprefix=kodak+Zi6%2Caps%2C721
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC4wrGfrSLQ
Alfetta mounting system ( this is the first version & video from about 2 years ago). In essence mounting it off the transmission tunnel using the seat belt anchor points and another stay to the rear parcel shelf triangulates the mounting & means no extra holes and very little vibration. I have also improved securing it in the cage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBDU-Ry7RoQ&feature=channel&list=UL
Here's a sample of my stunt drivng and other idiot moves in the wet with no wipers from Philip Island a couple of weekends ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcmR2OvCiCQ&feature=channel&list=UL
Hope this helps .
Cheers
Gully
I had the Kodak, it lasted about 1 1/2 events before the vibration killed it.
Phil,
Thats probably the first bad report i have hear on the Zi6 . Mine hasn't missed a beat in 2 years . I have got my $100.00 worth . I also forgot you group S guys & MD have a cage to mount a lot of different camera angles are possible.
I think Mick Aarons had a new Go Pro in his car for Philip Island a couple of weeeks ago.
MD,
I had some experience and spend $$$ on in-car cameras over the years, was one of the first with a camcorder in-car capturing my first and only crash at Calder many years ago. Lost the vision now. It was funny afterwards.
Anyway, as Gully and Phil have recommended Zi6 or not, (I bought a couple as well), in a way it is okay for vision but I could never get the sound right, so watching the vision without the proper sound (muffled) was excruciating. So I gave that up. Capturing your hero moments is priceless!!!
I used another cheap ($150) SD camcorder, it was good vision but battery life was terrible and lost a lot of vision because the battery would die mid way on track and unusable without recharge, sound was good. The trouble was having to unbelt, twist around to switch it on, make sure it is on, belting up again, etc etc. All that got too much for me with my hypertension increasing.
Bought a RadCam, you can research it easily. I have had great success with it, no problems, and the vision and angle are great. You can be all belted up, helmet on, gloves on, calm, reach by your side, switch the box on and away you go. You can hardwire the camera for constant power. 4G SD card last over 1 hr. The recorder box by your side shows you that it is recording and the vision and angle you get. Pricey at $500 odd, but the vision is priceless.
Go-Pro is the other way to go but you still have to reach around to switch on, but I think there are now accessories such as a remote and a viewer to show you the vision and angle. Probably $500 odd all up with bits and pieces
Also there is the Contour GPS camera too. Compact and bluetooth to iPhone to show you the vision and angle, can't be hardwired so needs battery charged or changed regularly. Not much experience with this.
The nice thing about dedicated in-car cameras and Go-Pro is the wide angle, 170 degrees you get. Standard camera's are too narrow in angle.
Also the roll cage mounts are great and easy to use, on and off and adjusted in a minute to save time and effort.
These are my thoughts and experiences, not claiming to know anything of course. Probably would have bought a Go-Pro as it can be used for other sports and things ie cycling or time lapsed recording.
If you have a data logger, you can match vision to data using DASHWARE software ($50).
Neil
Thanks guys for your tips. Happy to receive some more if they are out there.
Gully. Appreciate you chiming in first up. Looked up all your links and stuff. Seems Kodak is going out of business and so the investment in this item is risky.
BTW mate, I am sorry I didn't get a chance to meet you at my recent event with the Alpine Chapter. Was looking forward to some racing banter.
Neil. All good advice but I am too much of a tight arse to spend $500 so I need to hunt down something much cheaper.
Phil. I know what you mean. I have experimented with a budget camera and yes the photos were good, the price was good. The sound was crap and it would shut down anytime it liked (usually just after leaving pit lane !!!!)
Here's a camera that I have tracked down that seems to fit the bill :-
Price is ok
The view angle is good without too narrow or too wide.
Battery life is good
Upgradable SD card
Remote monitor and microphone possible.
Remote Stop/Start button (great if the camera is located behind the driver and you can turn it on once rolling)
It's HD 1080
I think you could even send pics back to the pits (with more gizmos)
What do you think guys ? Anyone actually got one of these? Comments?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/251100215717?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/251100215717?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649)
Looks good MD, I am always wary buying electrical equip from OS, would it work on our voltage? I assume you cant get it with an Aussie plug and would need to buy an adaptor to suit our GPO's?
Damn, wish I looked harder, good price, had seen others similar and price-wise too. Same style as Radcam, probably from same China factory with just different bits and pieces. The only thing as you have mentioned is the angle is 135 degrees which is ok.
You can plug power into camera by the looks of it which is good.
You will be happy with it.
Neil
Neil
I like the idea that you can place the camera for best viewpoint in the car. You can then install the "monitor" so you can keep an eye on it like a gauge. It has a tripod mount at its base which would come in handy for mounting. Finally, you can place the stop or start button next to your kill switch if you want and turn the sucker on and off whilst you are buckled in.
I think it is also possible to fit an external microphone if the internal one is a bit shitty, insensitive, or over sensitive etc. After all, the Alfa engine music is half the entertainment so that's gotta be right !!
Phil
I assume that for Oz clients, a plug converter would be supplied. Failing that, I am confident a converter could be sourced from Jaycar or indeed off the net somewhere.
There are a few other alternatives I am looking at that are essentially two cameras in one. I am thinking you could position one lens looking back and one looking forward. I have yet to find out if they will record simultaneously. I need to do some more homework.
MD,
Looks good , but didn't notice any editing software. Some of the other camera's come with it.
Gully
Yeah Gully, I already have an editing suite so that's not an issue. When I get half a chance, I will put up a short movie from Queensland Raceway with the Cab undergoing its initial testing. I used a simple little camera called an Otek DVS 550 HD 720 but as I said earlier, it was eratic in continuous shooting mode but the video quality was reasonable for around $100.
Quote from: Neil Choi on July 18, 2012, 11:18:09 PM
I had some experience and spend $$$ on in-car cameras over the years, was one of the first with a camcorder in-car capturing my first and only crash at Calder many years ago. Lost the vision now.
How.... inconvenient....
;D ;D
Quote from: MD on July 19, 2012, 08:41:50 AM
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/251100215717?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/251100215717?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649)
Now that looks interesting... Getting very sick of recording videos twice as long as they need to be (or dislocating both shoulders trying to turn it on in pit lane and then strap in before going out). I'd been thinking about trying to crack open the case on my cheap POS and wire in a remote record button. At that price I don't know that I can be bothered, also solves the minor, but annoying issue that my camera seems to have a loose microphone in it, and records all kinds of background digital crackling (and also records at very low volume ???). Plus it seems easier to mount in alternative places... Hmmm...
Just got a reply from the vendor to advise that the battery charger for Australian customers will be supplied with a 240 volt , 50 Hz compliant charger and plug so that sorts out our previous quandary Phil.
MD
That seller also sells a kit which is pretty much the Radcam for about $250 which is pretty good price. You might consider that. Comes with mic, remote etc etc.
Neil
Thank you Neil. That appears to be a fine set up as well. However, I have bitten the bullet and made the purchase already. Let's hope it lives up to be what it claims. (Do they ever? :) )
Good on you.
Now a quick word of advice, depending where you place the camera, ie on cage in the middle between seats with lots of inside of cabin ie filling 2/3 of viewfinder, you will get over exposure of the outside track scene, which means you will need to set the exposure to say -1.0EV, this generally works fine. If you don't, you will get fantastic exposure of the inside cabin and a useless washout of the track in front.
But if your camera captures only the outside (ie placed at the A-pillar) then auto exposure is fine. It is when you have inside and outside to deal with at the same time which causes the exposure discrepancy.
HELP !! :)
Here is a bit of an update on developments with this camera set up.
Makes great video and audio in general use so you would say , what's your problem?
Well, essentially it is the audio side of things that are actually in two categories.
1 Overload distortion from excessively loud input sound levels in the cabin*.
2 The unit audio sampling rate is 48000kHz but all my playback software uses 44100kHz.
This causes an out of synchronisation of sound with the video.
I have two problems as a consequence that arise:-
1 I cannot reset the audio sampling rate in the recorder.
2 I don't know how to change audio sampling rate in the video players (or if it is possible).
I need some help with this stuff. Perhaps there are a sampling rate converters out there that I have not yet found. Do you know of any? Alternatively are there players out there that can use 48000kHz sampling rates?
Some basic specs. of the recorder:-
Recording format: MOV
Codec:H.264
Best resolution : 1920x1080 (25fps)
* For the overload distortion problem, I intend to experiment with low sensitivity dynamic microphones and if that doesn't do the job, I intend to make an acoustic enclosure that encapsulates the micorphone with perhaps a mechanical calibrating vane that I can adjust to vary the exposure of the mic. to the cabin sound. This is a lot of stuffing around but you know me...I don't just give up at the first sign of a flea fart.. ;D
Calling all video Geeks. ;D We need a resolution here. ::)
Got some more help questions from anyone uploading HD quality video to You Tube. Given the time and data restrictions you have to comply with, what format are you guys uploading with to get a good crisp image ?
I have made a couple of attempts only to wind up with crap that I then had to delete.
Quote from: MD on October 27, 2012, 10:26:19 AM
2 The unit audio sampling rate is 48000kHz but all my playback software uses 44100kHz.
This causes an out of synchronisation of sound with the video.
That's very odd - I've never seen any audio sync problems with interleave formats like MOV. You shouldn't have to set any audio sampling rate, the player should work it out from the envelope? Suggest try playback in VLC (http://www.videolan.org/vlc/index.html) as it will usually play ANYTHING.
There's a FAQ on video encoding for youtube here: http://support.google.com/youtube/bin/static.py?hl=en&guide=1728585&page=guide.cs
in particular there's advanced encoding specifications here: http://support.google.com/youtube/bin/static.py?hl=en&topic=1728573&guide=1728585&page=guide.cs
I always upload using H.264 encoded MOV at 1080p or 720p size with whatever default audio settings the video editing software I use (Pinnacle Studio on windows mostly) offers as default. Seems to work okay.
Once you've uploaded a few videos (and probably they get watched by a few folk), youtube takes away their length restrictions.
MD
WRT the noise distortion or overload, you might have tried this already, you might try covering up the microphone on the unit with various layers of tape, paper or cardboard. Worth a try as it cost nothing.
Neil
Evan & Neil,
Thanks very much for your advices. I have followed through with all the suggestions so far and spent probably the last couple of days just getting acquainted with all the contemporary terminologies and technical issues surrounding all this guff. I think I have absorbed about 3% which could be just enough to blunder through.
In reality my problems start once I try to edit the fresh footage (an analogue term for length of film used to produce the scenes :) ). The editor I use is Cyberlink Power Director V7.0. This sucker is as cranky as an unpaid builder's labourer and only fractionally less prone to seizures than Windows Movie Maker. Six out of ten times it will not synchronise the audio with the video and so I get gear changes audio a week later than it actually happened. :) At other times it gets the two holding hands no problem -now isn't that just like your girlfriend? ;D
This got me thinking that it it could be the audio sampling rate issue but I tried down sampling from 48khz to 44.1kHz but the girlfriend left town..it didn't work.
I also tried Windows Movie Maker but it doesn't handle MOV files and I am reluctant to do file conversions to keep the quality as high as possible so that program I cannot use.
There is some light at the end of the tunnel because You Tube does accept MOV files and it prefers 48kHz audio codec.
As for the overload distortion Neil, I have tried some of those techniques and they do work to an extent in reducing input levels but they also degrade the nature of the sound and so a nice crisp engine can sound like your old Victa two stroke. ;D
..as for the girlfriend, I am taking her out to lunch.
Finally, here is something to show for my effort.
The sound is still crap of course..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9AKvNVM94A&feature=plcp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9AKvNVM94A&feature=plcp)
Well, let's round off this item. As promised, here are some photos of my actual equipment set up with endorsement on the photos themselves explaining what I anticipate you may like to know.
I suppose CAMS would have some safety provisions regarding restraints, even though I do not have to comply as I run under AASA, I have ensured as far as practicality will allow, a secure fastening of all elements consistent with function.
Note that a simple bolting of the dynamic microphone to the roll cage would create a huge distortion from vibrations. It therefore requires a total isolation fixing which in this case is achieved by layers of builders expansion foam positioned above and below the fixing point and at no time does the fixing bolt holding the microphone make contact with the roll cage.
(as a foot note.) Dynamic microphones work on the basis of air moving a magnet that induces a voltage in response to that movement. If a vibration causes that movement, an electrical noise is generated that affects the actual sound it is supposed to replicate. Hence the need for isolation.
That's pretty darn kewl, MD!
I want a similar set up fro my road car, but will mount the camera next too or under the front number plate and use an in car microphone.
Idea being to get some nice footage of my favorite roads but keep the wind noise out of the microphone.
Obviously you will need to take care of water penetration,dust and dirt issues if locating the camera so low.
As for the microphone, don't use a dynamic as it will be too insensitive I suspect and a cheap mike from a low budget headset even will do. If you wind up using the same recorder, you wont need any as there is an adequate one incorporated in it and I assume you will place it in the cabin so it will do both jobs. Given the noise in a road car is so great, it should work fine.