Reliabilty - a word Alfa owners have heard more often than belisima.
I know you've all heard this question before - but how do they rate on the reliability stakes? I can't really afford to have a car sit at the garage most of the time.
I'm a BMW driver (which has been reliable) who is definetly interested in buying a manual twin spark 156 as they are relatively cheap and due to the fact that I've always wanted an Alfa - and then I drove one this past weekend, and found it to be addictive :)
The main problem with the early 156's was the Selespeed, if you are getting a Twin Spark, then this isn't an issue. Everything else is as reliable as most moderen Euro cars. Just check when the cam belts where done and you should have no problems.
That's awesome!
Are servicing costs generally expensive compared to other Euro cars?
And is there anything I should look out for other than a worn variator and cambelt records?
Less than a beemmer for sure. I had a e36 320 from new and the 156 was a lot cheaper.
What needs to be done for the 100,000 k service on the Twin Sparks?
My 156 JTS manual is the most reliable, cheapest car I've ever owned.
Doug Gould
07 Brera
02 156 JTS
85 GTV6
72 Montreal
I did fair bit of research myself before taking the plunge into a 156 as they are relatively cheap, great to drive and I'd always wanted an Alfa.
Make sure it's had regular oil changes by Alfa dealers or specialist Alfa repairers, cambelts are done, variator is done and if getting one near 100,000km then spark plugs are due. Buy a manual if you can find one. If you must have a selespeed try to get a JTS car as the pump et al were revised.
In almost a year of ownership I've replaced the clutch (which I knew was on its way out) and replaced a thermostat that wasn't closing fully (I did it myself). She goes into Lance Dixon for her 100,000km service soon.
Good stuff anth73.
Anth, you sound just like me.
What sort of 156 do you have?
After 6 months searching I managed to locate a 2002 update series 156 V6 manual with sunroof.
It was a one owner car and had full Alfa dealer service history.
Lance Dixon is doing the 100,000km service tomorrow and also fitting Koni yellow's on the front to tidy up the ride and genuine Alfa sportpack springs made by Eibach to address the handling. These are rare on 2.5V6's here.
I've also noticed a couple manual V6 Guigaro 2003 update series cars....the look is growing on me.
Reliabilty???? that word should not be associated with an Alfa 156 JTS vehicle. It is the most unreliable car I have ever owned. It was off the road when it was 11 months old for 13 months from new. The dealers could not fix it. It would run for 2 weeks then stop again. It had fuel pumps, injectors, you name it, they tried to get it working but it wouldn't go. It even had catalytic converters fitted to make it run. Excessively high oil consumption which they say is normal has now come to it's end with a major engine problem just today with clouds of smoke coming from the exhaust. Whatever it was that causes the excessive oil consumption in these engines has just failed after 54,000km. Apart from that it has gone through coils packs, they are $400 each and you pretty much have to dirve arounbd with the engine management fault, got to dealer message flashing on the display for most of the time you own one of these vehicles. Also never try to jumpstart a 156. Evidently it will take out the SRS computer for a start. Something is known about this but the delaers do not let on. If you are thinking of buying one, good luck, I would suggest ANYTHING ELSE BUT. Now I need an engine rebuild... and yes, oil levels were always maintained.
That sounds like a tale of woe! Was your servicing done by an Alfa dealer? An engine failure like that at just 54,000Km does not sound right and I'd put the hard word on Alfa to meet costs if it was serviced by the book.
I know of several cases where current model Subaru Liberty owners were having engines changed over within 10,000km from new due to engine failure. Just goes to show that no brand is immune from reliability issues.
Servicing was all done by alfa under the warranty period and after. Used Oil was as recommended. Just phoned alfaromeo and they offer no help what so ever. They could care less. They have a full and extensive list of the warranty repairs on this vehicle yet they offer no help. Estimates atm on repair are between $8-$12000 which is rediculous since the market value of this vehicle is $21000. Basically it is a heap of junk. Alfa service and help is non existant. Apart from that I havent mentioned the other problems of door trim continually falling off, petrol flap breaking twice when it was popped open by the release, jacking caps fall out, mirror cover falls off, trim loose, rattles and sequeks from dash, oxygen sensors, radio control buttons on steering wheel peeling off.... the list goes on....
.......Oh, and that vehicle, $67,000 new on the road. What a load of #$@%
red, what was the "failure"....look I'm not doubting you, but I have to say that the experience of all the 156/147 owners i know (and that's a lot and includes myself) is nothing like what you have described.......the main issues are, early 156 selespeeds need new selespeed pumps, change the cam belt every 50k and put good oil in them and that's it. Sorry to hear of your experience but it's just not typical.
atm the failure, becuase the engine hasn't been stripped, guessing it's the rings. It has always had excessive oil use since new but they were not concerned about it. For the engine to fail after 54,000km something was definately wrong with it. I have contacted the distributor direct now and they have offered no help. They have left it up to me to find out what has gone wrong and to pay for it all. If as you say "it is not normal" then surely Ateco would be concerned that this vehicle has been trouble since new, and they have a long warranty repair history of it as well. As it turns out thay have offered me no help other to tell me to go to a dealer to get it fixed . I have already spent $4000 on it in the last 6 months in servicing costs so it's not as if this vehicle doesn;t get looked after. My first 156 had 1 prolem from new, a hydraulic leak from the actuator which was fixed the day after I picked it up, after that no problem for 4 years. It did 50,000km and had 2 services as recommended in the service bokk at 20,000km intervals. Service was cheap and very good from the start. Now my experience and service satisfaction is below zero with alfaromeo.
DO NOT BUY A JTS ENGINE
if it's not typical then why isn't alfaromeo or ateco offering any help? I obviously should not have been driving the car on the road becuase that has led to the engine failure geesh.... the car has used excessive oil since day one. I suspect the rings have gone somewhere. apart from that oxygen sensor faults are showing again too. I have contacted Ateco direct now and they have only told me to go to a dealer to get it fixed. They have not even hinted at the fact that they will help me out in anyway. With the amount of time my vehicle has been back for warranty repair I would have thought they would have done more for me at this stage with a major engine failure at just 54,000km, that is just utterly rediculous for any vehicle. The first vehicle I ever bought for $12,000 did 140,000km without an engine rebuild, then I gave it to a friend who put it up to 220,000km. So it is definately isn't my driving becuase I don't thrash cars. DONT BUY A JTS ENGINE
No other engine management faults are showing so the fault is purely mechanical.It's just lucky I have a mechanic who os very good now who will diagnose faults and reset my engine management for nothing. I have seen him a lot since I found him and I am not fed rubbish like the service guys at REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR who last time I went in there with an engine fault blamed me for it becuse I put Shell petrol in the vehicle. What a load of rubbish. I even rang up Shell to check on that statement and they have no reason why the alfa 156 JTS cannot run on Shell VPower. Alfa romeo had no idea what REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR was talking about either. They had fitted a new coil pack, but after that statement I told them to take it out again and I would go somewhere else becuase I wasn't happy with them. They still charged me $140 for that, and they lost my service books for the vehicle and told me I woul dhave to pay for new ones. As it turns out I did go somewhere else, and even with the $140 I wasted on them it was still cheaper than getting them to do it. I also had another service place tell me not to put Mobil petrol in it too and use BP. So after they "fixed" it one week, I re-fueled with BP just up the road from the service centre. Drove out the petrol station and half way home I was doing 40km/h maximum. Big U turn, back to service, left the car there for another week and got the train home... again.
How many more strories woudl you guys like, I've got heaps lol
I can only suggest you try Damon Earwalker at Lance Dixon Alfa. He's always been extremely helpful in my experience and knows the 156 inside out. He is also a member of the club so has a vested interest in ensureing we are looked after appropriately. Club memebers also get discounts on parts so it may be in your interest to join AROCA-Vic if you are not a member.
I'm sure Damon can fix it no problem. I don't have a problem with that. The problem I have is my engine has failed and it is nothing I have done, It's not my fault, yet, I have to pay for everything. The engine has 54,000km on the clock, basically this engine was not fit for purpose under the trade practices act. I have complained about it to the dealers, this is not the only thing that has been wrong with the vehicle. I have been patient and considerate while they have tried to fix it, I have left the vehicle with them for as long as they want for them to get it running correctly and have never pressured them for them to get it done quickly or been angry or irate with the service people. I dropped it off and said give it back to me when it is working with no time frame. Now I have had enough, and I am getting really annoyed with the AlfaRomeo. I have been patient for 4 years but this is the last. So why shoud I give any ALFA dealer any more money? The Alfa mechanic I go to now just cant believe how badly I have been stiched up with this vehicle.
Redalfa,
Ignoring the fact I believe you are showing poor form, I am surprised you had been so patient. The poor form comes from attempting to name and shame one of the business that supports our club while not clearly identifying yourself. I say attempting because the general rule is the people with the bad experiences tend to shout the loudest.
That said, all I can say in response to your posts is I wish you had joined the club 4 years ago (or at least been more active on the forum). As you say the engine wasn't right from the start, within the club we have many knowledgeable people and you could have swapped stories/advice with fellow JTS owners and our specialist Alfa mechanics. Had their counsel been sort earlier I'd like to think a lot of your grief may have been avoided.
Regards,
Brad
well put Brad
I can fully appreciate Redalfa's frustration. We had a truck that was off the road for over 60 days out of its first eleven months for a fault that was never diagnosed. The downtime nearly broke us. We rang, wrote, emailed everyone we could think of within the Australian leg of its company and was stonewalled at every turn. It finally took a litigation specialist who contacted their overseas head office ( and by coincidence was friends with a current affairs reporter) to get us any sort of satisfaction.
If all the dealers involved were unable to pinpoint the trouble with all their specialist equipment, then they should have stood behind their product and done what was necessary to ensure that a vehicle was supplied to the customer that he had in good faith purchased. The customer should be able to rely on his dealer, not have to contact outside help to rectify a dealership problem. It seems they have patched an obvious lemon until it was out of warranty and then basically said seeya later. So don't be too hard on this poor fellow, until you have been in this situation yourself, you can't begin to understand the heartache and frustration that goes with it. And you can all get cranky with me but a lemon is a lemon, no matter what no doubt great advise he may have received from members of the club.
Brett.
This thread has been bothering me so until now I have been holding off. Cars what ever make, model or purchase price can not be made the same, and there will always be a consumable (which after all is what a car is) that is just not right. This shouldn't reflect on the other products or Dealerships which is the part of Redalfa's gripe that is bothering me and he shouldn't be airing it here.
Asking for help from the Forum is one thing but I think Redalfa is over the mark making defamatory comments. Don't think for a minute that there is not a BMW or a Mercedes Benz or a Porsche or a Ferrari or a Fisher & Pykle customer out there without the same sort of issues.
Car Factories and Distributors have a far bigger agenda than making bad friends with consumers and in my considerable experience will usually go to great lengths to resolve customer complaints. They do however work within parameters and the owners support of the Dealer network, the vehicle age, the Killometridge, the condition of the failure, the use of the vehicle and the perceived value of the customer to the network will all come in to their decision process.
So be frustrated yes, but don't automatically assume that is is always someone else's responsibility. Move forward.
This vehicle is used for my business. It was not purchased as a "luxury" item or just a means of doing the shopping or running about on the weekend. When it is off the road it is an inconvenience and I have to work around it, fitting in and borrowing other vehicles when I can. As for long haul drives, say to Sydney, I simply could never do it in this vehicle. I haven't been a member of the RACV since my first vehicle but I have had to re-join roadside assist since the warranty has run out on this vehicle. My first alfa was brilliant. Apart from an initial oil leak it never had a problem. The selespeed was perfect and worked faultlessly, unlike what you guys say about it in this forum from what I can gather. It was setup the same as my new one, lowered suspension, strut tower stabiliser bar.Drove very nicely. The service was excellent, sales guys were friendly and didn't mess around, I signed the papers and bought the vehicle within 15 minutes of walking through the front door. Servicing it was just as cheap as my previous Mazda. I was suitably impressed. That is the main reason for buying the new model, well, it had to be better, same chassis but with improvements and a few more features. Yes, when it goes it does drive nicely and handles excellently, that is why I bought it. But that all pales into insignificance with all the other faults. This vehicle is on a hire purchase agreement, it was due for replacement this year. I would have possibly bought a 159. Now I have to refinance the same vehicle because it has to be fixed and I can't change it over as is. Yes, I have to fix it so yes I am "... moving forward" and I am paying for it. Yes I got a really bad vehicle with a load of faults, of course I am not happy with it. I was not asking for advice, someone posted a comment about reliability, in my opinion it is the worst vehicle I have owned and the problems are still coming and they haven't stopped. I also bought two mazdas and a commodore in the same period, all much cheaper vehicles. They have had no problems at all. And yes some one did say I put the wrong petrol in it, that is fact, and so he lost his credability with such a silly statement which I verified as having no substance after consulting Shell and alfa romeo the same day. As far as I know alfa romeo was going to contact the service department to find out why he said that. Now I have to work out a way to get to the airport tonight to meet someone flying......
Very sorry I came in late on this thread. I'm sorry to hear you've had such a major problem with your car. I'm also very sorry but I have to remove the name of the dealer from your posting - please do not take this personally however the Alfa Romeo dealers are all active supporters and this is an important relationship for the future of our club. This is a very public place to air your views in such a direct manner.
If anyone is interested to hear more of redalfa's story, please feel free to PM him and I'm sure he'll give you all the detail. I will however remove any further complaints naming specific individuals or businesses.
Anyone got any issue with this - shoot me a PM.
peace love and mung beans.
Evan.
I am thinking pf buying a 2000 model Alfa 156 5 spd manual monza twin spark in very good condition, My mechanic who services my current cars said dont buy it as it is a load of trouble and very expensive to maintain he said $4000 per year and a big problem is the timing belt, the car has done 70k in 7 years. Should I take notice of him Huh?
Peter
Timing belt is a once every 60,000 kilometers issue and should cost you circa $800. There are few modern cars that aren't the same. My 156 still goes to the dealer and services are typically circa $200. I've never had any unscheduled maintenance that wasn't covered under warranty (currently aty 90,000km).
Frankly, no modern cars are the nightmare you mechanic is scaring you with. Unless he can give more quantitative, objective detail I'd get a new mechanic.
Doug Gould
Use an Alfa experienced mechanic they are all on this website and you can't go wrong.