hi all
got a 98 GTV V6 that's due for a timing belt change
I've had two different mobs quote me $900 for the belt kit
but I can source the parts VERY much cheaper online - from http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/
they're quoting me just over 300 Aussie in total, including delivery - so I don't know why local garages just don't source their bits from the net. But anyway...
one question, they've quoted me for two things as follows:
1. Cam belt kit V6. V6 24v GATES cam belt with O.E. tensioner. V63.0
2. Cam belt idlers V6. 2x cam belt idlers for V6 engines.
so what I'm wondering is, should I get the idlers as well, or just the cam belt kit?
thanks for any guidance
Hey Darkstar,
If you're going to change the timing belt, you may as well do everything including the water pump. So idlers, tensioners and auxiliary belt. As it's been said time and time before by everyone on this forum, when it comes to doing a cambelt on these cars, you change everything at once and you have peace of mind.
No point just replacing a cam belt and tensioner, then having to pay for the labour again to change the water pump, it's just throwing money down the drain. I'm pretty sure majority would agree to change and replace everything.
The $900 quote probably included all of those, and by the time you add them all up, that's what it costs. $900 for parts sounds fair especially to do a cam belt on a V6 including labour last time I checked was about $1500 give or take. This was a while ago, so I could be way off now.
Plus I'd rather support the local industry as well, if you're mechanic can't make a quid, then who is going to look after your pride and joy??
If you're located in Melb there are a few mechanics on the sponsors page that can do the job for you.
the cambelt kit is the belt obviously, the tensioner and the idlers. do it. idlers also go...
if your waterpump has never been changed then i'd consider it... but otherwise not essential on the gtv as they had the metal impellor from the get go...
thanks guys. I'll get the idlers as well, and I'll check the service records to see if the water pump has been done.
sorry if this might've been answered elsewhere, but do you think I should take it to an Alfa specialist for this?
Domenic:
- I'm quite sure the quotes did NOT include a water pump
- I'm not prepared to pay an extra $600, because my mechanic can't be bothered doing a Google search to find parts MUCH cheaper on the net (as I did). I'm still going to get a local mechanic to actually do the work, so I can't see how I'm dudding the local industry anyway. What I can see is that local parts suppliers will lose business, and it seems to me to be a good thing, because they seem to be overcharging to the max.
no local mechanic. no way. they will not do it properly. it requires special alfa tools to do the job.
specifically, must have cam puller to remove the cam pulley off their spindle to allow proper tension, and engine specific cam blocks to set the timing to where it should be w/ cyl 1 at TDC. a generic mechanic will mark the old belt and match it the new and swap.
this is incorrect.
a generic will not have the tools nor the knowledge to do the job. if you take it to a generic mechanic, just save yourself the bother and put a bullet in it now.
thanks man: I'll steer clear of generics then.
Darkstar, talk to a Alfa Romeo service provider on our sponsors page and have a talk to them about what they recomend changing, and work out if you want to buy the parts yourself and have them fitted, or if your mechanic wants to source the parts from their suppliers local or overseas, some of these Alfa Romeo service providers may have good prices on their fast moving parts, such as cam belts, tensioners, water pumps, oil filters, brake pads and rotors, due to the fact they buy in bulk, and just source slow moving parts locally, get your cam belt done by an Alfa Romeo service provider, as they have all the cam and flywheel lock tools and they have done it before, Colin.
Hi darkstar,
It is a known fact that mechanics make a cut from the prices of the parts they supply you with. You could definitely save on the cost of the parts if you supply your own, but how much would you really save? The mechanic could simply charge you the full price for the labour involved, right down to the dot and you'd still end up paying a fair bit. We all know how expensive labour in Australia is. He would definitely cut you some slack on the labour if the parts are coming from his arsenal and you ask for a discount. You'd also lose out on the workmanship guarantee as most mechanics I know will not guarantee the work they've done unless the parts come from their own suppliers.
This may sound a little controversial but you need to have a good relationship with your mechanic and you need to give him some incentive to go the extra mile for you and look after your car. Think about it.
Trippy, you hit the nail right on the head, a good mechanic is one you feel comfortable with, and you can talk to and you trust what they say, its like buying some spuds and taking it to a fish and chip shop and telling them to cook them, but still find out what they will charge for parts, and if they will still warranty the work with parts you supply, Colin.
Hi darkstar,
If you are going to buy your parts from oversea's try www.ebspares.co.uk.
They do sell good quality parts.
I would change the lot has mention to be on the safe side.
thanks all
this is certainly a lively and helpful forum
yeah, I'll talk to an Alfa specialist about what they reckon I should replace, etc, as well as what they'd charge for parts and labour, If it's going to be hundreds more for parts, as I expect, then I'll ask about supplying my own.
looks like the water pump hasn't been done, so will probably get that replaced too.
trippy: basically, you're saying that mechanics make a cut on parts, rather than charge it as labour, which would be the HONEST thing to do. It appears that they're trying to hide the fact that they're making a cut on parts, which in my view is a dodgey practise.
if they were going to be ethical about it, they should bill you for what the parts cost them, and anything extra should be counted as labour. Either that, or they should be up-front about it and itemise their cut on the parts separately on the bill.
if the parts cost them say $100 and they put the cost of parts on the bill as $200, then that's just a lie, I would say.
what a couple of you seem to be saying is that I should just cop an extra $600 on the bill. Supposing that I could somehow get a 'discount', I can't imagine it's going to be anywhere near a $600 reduction. In my view, you're just telling me to be a mug. Sorry, but that's how I see it.
oh and Alfaaa, I will have a look at ebspares - cheers.
In defence of mechanics upping the prices of parts, they can't be expected to keep parts in stock and only charge you what they paid. There is a cost involved in keeping parts on site.
this is getting out of hand, and this whole parts pricing is just conjucture based on the actions of a few, but not all.
Where are you based?
I can only say what is in my direct knowledge. I asked Lance Dixon, an alfa dealer, if they would perform the v6 belt change labour only for my cf3 156 v6. They said yes, no problem, and it would cost ~$930 labour alone to fit belt kit and WP.
I got my parts from the UK including pump and belt kit and accessory belt - cost me around $350.
So - dealer specialist from a well known and trusted dealershop - all in - looking at around $1300. not bad at all. this other stuff around it is all tripe. Indies should not be charging more than that - and I can say, in my investigations I had indies 'specialists' quote me far more than the dealer. In one case more than double! In the end I went with LD to fit my q2 diff for $400, again, labour only. Perfect job. Those lads have my full confidence.
YMMV. HTHs, good luck and all that!
Quote from: Joe Garra on March 23, 2012, 01:12:38 PM
In defence of mechanics upping the prices of parts, they can't be expected to keep parts in stock and only charge you what they paid. There is a cost involved in keeping parts on site.
I think being an Alfa mechanic and having stock of timing belts isnt too much to ask is it? It's not like stocking some rare gold encrusted instrument cluster that may not even sell!
Sure, they can apply some mark up, but if guys like this can make a margin selling the whole kit and kaboodle for $280 ( http://bit.ly/GI1Q1U ) then I think mechanics could too.
I know they have to turn a dollar, but I think that timing belts are pretty easy money for a lot of these workshops. With some people paying up to $1300 for the job, is there really $1000 labour involved?
If you had a 33 that needed it done, you'd really have to weigh up your options budget wise, with the average price of a 33 around 3k these days.
Quote from: wankski on March 23, 2012, 02:03:46 PM
this is getting out of hand, and this whole parts pricing is just conjucture based on the actions of a few, but not all.
Where are you based?
I can only say what is in my direct knowledge. I asked Lance Dixon, an alfa dealer, if they would perform the v6 belt change labour only for my cf3 156 v6. They said yes, no problem, and it would cost ~$930 labour alone to fit belt kit and WP.
I got my parts from the UK including pump and belt kit and accessory belt - cost me around $350.
So - dealer specialist from a well known and trusted dealershop - all in - looking at around $1300. not bad at all. this other stuff around it is all tripe. Indies should not be charging more than that - and I can say, in my investigations I had indies 'specialists' quote me far more than the dealer. In one case more than double! In the end I went with LD to fit my q2 diff for $400, again, labour only. Perfect job. Those lads have my full confidence.
YMMV. HTHs, good luck and all that!
Did LD say they would guarantee the work done if you were to provide the parts? Interesting what you mentioned about some indie garages charging crazy prices - I've had one quote me over $2200 for a timing belt change on mine!
In the end I got mine booked in for ~$1200 including tensioners, pulleys, water pump and labour.
update: just rang LD:
- quoted total $1800 for cam belt replacement
- split was $1000 for the belt replacement kit, $800 labour
- asked if I could supply my own parts: 'yes, but we won't give you a warranty'
- what if they're genuine Alfa parts? - nope, no warranty
- what if I pay some extra for a warranty? - nope, no warranty
- should I replace water pump, auxiliary belts while they're at it?: 'We check those, and will replace if needed'. They did mention that if my pump has a plastic impellor, it would be replaced.
so I can source the kit for $700 less from the UK, is anyone seriously going to tell me I should just cop an extra $700? You've gotta be joking. I'm not worried about the warranty anyway, I've never, to my knowledge anyway, had a shop do a dodgey job, such that I'd want to take it back. And I gather the guys at LD are pros.
I've been quoted $600 labour by generics, but obviously I'll not be going to them for this.
wankski: I'm in Melbourne.
further question if I may: is there a way I can check if my water pump has a plastic impellor? If so, I'll just order one from the UK methinks...
Sounds like your mechanic is throwing his toys out of the cot...
After a conversation like that, i'd be tempted to go elsewhere....not sure that his heart and soul will be in the job given that you have already copped some attitude.
Maybe you should ring around and up front say 'i have the kit, i just need it installed, can you do it?'. Then you are not questioning their parts mark-up so directly.
I find the guys at the Italian Job in Oakleigh pretty straight-up sort of blokes....i am sure there are others too.
Mark up and pricing. Comes up time and again on this forum. I wonder, do you guys realise this is NOT just limited to the auto trades? Nearly every single item that is retailed in Australia, retails for more than it does overseas - and that includes items that are MADE in Australia.
The Engineers Black Book is printed in Australia, and retails here for a little over $40. In the US (still printed in Australia, just with 'USA edition' on the front cover), it's about $20.
The Alfaholics polyurethane 'cone bushes' for the trunnion arm of a 105, are nothing more than Superpro bushes (still manufactured in Queensland AFAIK), with the Superpro label removed and an Alfaholics one attached. I have a mate in the trade, so I asked him to get me a trade price on that same bush through Bursons. His trade price was $19.65, while at todays exchange rate, even with VAT, Alfaholics work out to $17.35.
What's my point? My point is, don't blame the guys at the end of the chain - lift your sights up a lot higher, and ask the manufacturers themselves why their wholesale prices seem to be more in Australia than retail prices overseas.
Quote from: darkstar on March 23, 2012, 12:59:39 PM
trippy: basically, you're saying that mechanics make a cut on parts, rather than charge it as labour, which would be the HONEST thing to do. It appears that they're trying to hide the fact that they're making a cut on parts, which in my view is a dodgey practise.
if they were going to be ethical about it, they should bill you for what the parts cost them, and anything extra should be counted as labour. Either that, or they should be up-front about it and itemise their cut on the parts separately on the bill.
Darkstar, I don't even know why I'm bothering here, since you obviously have an extremely low view of the automotive trade, and believe everyone is out to get you, but here goes anyway.
Let's start with the fact that anything they sell, MUST have GST collected on it. So, out of the gate you'll pay 10% more than they did, I'm sure you'd agree that is a fair observation. So we'll assume they charge you what they pay, plus 10%. I have to wonder, what then would be the benefit of them supplying parts at all? After all, it takes time to order parts, deal with invoices and book keeping related matters, negotiate with suppliers/couriers, possibly even pay fees - time that could be much better off spent with their tools in an engine bay.
I really don't understand your comment about "anything extra should be counted as labour." The most likely situation I can work out, is that you are saying any profit made on the parts should be taken off the labour cost? In which case, see above...
Quote from: darkstar on March 23, 2012, 04:55:27 PM
I'm not worried about the warranty anyway, I've never, to my knowledge anyway, had a shop do a dodgey job, such that I'd want to take it back. And I gather the guys at LD are pros.
Did it ever occur to you that perhaps people aren't suggesting you check about a warranty for dodgy workmanship, but instead in case one of the parts (tensioner bearing, for example) you buy fails after 20,000km? Saving a few hundred dollars on parts will suddenly seem very foolish if this occurs, and you have no warranty.... A quick check of EB spares suggests if you were lucky enough to only have 8 bent valves (say 4 intake, 4 exhaust), you'd be up for just over $400 simply for the valves and head gasket set - thats before postage, and the required bits to do the cambelt (again). Not to mention the labour involved in removing and repairing a pair of v6 heads....
To my mind, it's a bit like driving around with no car insurance - what do you do if some unemployed and uninsured moron smashes into your car and writes it off? You end up a lot more out of pocket than you would have been if you spent some cash on insurance... It's not that likely to happen, but it's also certainly not impossible. I guess the question is, do you feel lucky?
Quote from: tony8028 on March 23, 2012, 06:23:17 PM
Sounds like your mechanic is throwing his toys out of the cot...
After a conversation like that, i'd be tempted to go elsewhere....not sure that his heart and soul will be in the job given that you have already copped some attitude.
I'm not sure how you figure that?
Let's assume they give a warranty on the LABOUR they do, and there is a failure in 20,000kms. The car needs to be partly dismantled to ascertain cause of failure, and this is where the trouble begins. Assume for example the tensioner bearing has failed.
First, they must ring the customer, and tell them the bearing has failed. Now, if you just take a look at some of the posts around this site, it's a fair bet that the response will be "No, that was a good quality part, you must have overtensioned the belt." Now, this may well be true, although most likely not, who knows? The mechanic will be convinced that the belt was correctly tensioned, the customer will be adamant that it must have been done wrong. The most likely result here is that the customer will be angry and convinced he's being taken for a ride (after all, that's the hobby of all mechanics, isn't it?), and the mechanic will refuse to do the repairs under warranty - after all, why should he be out $5-6,000 due to a part he didn't supply? The customer will most likely have the car towed away, and spend the rest of his life spouting angrily off about that workshop.
Personally, I can quite easily understand why any workshop would not want to expose themselves to that situation. Conversely, if the workshop supplies the parts as well, it's very simple and clear cut. They repair the car, and they chase the supplier of the parts for monetary reimbursement if the parts are the cause of failure. No arguments with the customer, no potential legal battles, simply "This went wrong, it's all fixed, have a nice day."
Which, incidentally, probably has a lot to do with why local mechanics often don't buy their parts in from overseas... After all, it's amazing how elusive someone in the same country can become when they're being chased with a $5,000 bill, imagine trying to mount that same chase internationally!
I'm sure the next reply will be - but what about the genuine parts, they're the same parts the dealer would use. To which, I will note than in the last couple of years, SKF bearings put out a technical bulletin on how to recognise a genuine SKF bearing. Why? Because the market had been flooded (including in authorised SKF stockists) with Chinese manufactured knockoffs. Identical box, identical part numbers - everything appeared to even more experienced observers to be the same. Except the quality.
Quote from: darkstar on March 23, 2012, 04:55:27 PM
wankski: I'm in Melbourne.
further question if I may: is there a way I can check if my water pump has a plastic impellor? If so, I'll just order one from the UK methinks...
yeah, go LD...
no, you'd need to remove it to tell... i'm pretty sure the gtv always had a metal one, but why not... go ahead and replace and don't stress about it!
Quote from: Jekyll and Hyde on March 23, 2012, 09:05:13 PM
Let's assume they give a warranty on the LABOUR they do, and there is a failure in 20,000kms. The car needs to be partly dismantled to ascertain cause of failure, and this is where the trouble begins. Assume for example the tensioner bearing has failed.
i get what you're saying, really i do, but its for the individual to decide... I mean many early v6s now are barely worth 10k if that... is it really reasonable to tell owners that they have to pay 2k+ to replace the belt every 3 yrs?
the natural conclusion for most is: not worth it, don't do it at all!
now if we can combine a genuine alfa kit + expert dealer labour and nearly cut the cost in half, i personally think that's more reasonable, and having the job done on the dot every 3 yrs, local warranty on gen parts or not, is far better than postponement due to cost.
but i guess most of all, the thing that i object to most, is the notion that we as enthusiast alfisti can't think for ourselves, rather than, "shut up, pay whatever they ask for, take it and like it"... nnaaah thanks. it's just not for me.
Quote from: wankski on March 23, 2012, 10:07:03 PM
Quote from: Jekyll and Hyde on March 23, 2012, 09:05:13 PM
Let's assume they give a warranty on the LABOUR they do, and there is a failure in 20,000kms. The car needs to be partly dismantled to ascertain cause of failure, and this is where the trouble begins. Assume for example the tensioner bearing has failed.
i get what you're saying, really i do, but its for the individual to decide... I mean many early v6s now are barely worth 10k if that... is it really reasonable to tell owners that they have to pay 2k+ to replace the belt every 3 yrs?
Not so sure that you do get what I'm saying, actually. My point with the post you've quoted, is that I don't think it is unreasonable for a workshop to refuse to give a warranty when they don't know the origin of the parts, especially when the cost of failure is as high as a cambelt breakage. Manufacturing defects DO occur, parts DO fail prematurely, and to suggest a workshop is just throwing a tantrum if they refuse to warrant a job where they have not supplied the parts (therefore having no recourse if such a failure should occur) seems a little naive...
But certainly, as you say, regardless of warranty or not, new parts fitted by the appropriate people are a lot better than no parts fitted at all. It is indeed up to the individual just how much peace of mind they want - after all, I do all my mechanical work myself, ergo I have no warranty at all. If something fails, I'll swear, fork over cash for the required parts, and then spend a few nights swearing and skinning knuckles. Risk analysis would suggest the labour savings I make in this manner will most often pay for parts required in the event of a failure, so I'm fine with that. If I had no mechanical ability at all, I would be certainly be trying to make sure the job ended up with a warranty, for the same reason I have comprehensive car insurance - I hope I don't need it, but I'll pay a bit extra in case I do.
Jesus J&H, this seems to have got you worked up.
I simply meant that bills should accurately itemise what you're being charged for, but it doesn't really matter.
as has been said above, it's up to the individual to decide which way they want to go, and I'm not paying an extra $600 or $700, on what I think is bugger-all chance of there being a problem due to deficient quality parts. I intend to buy the parts from what is seemingly a reputable UK supplier, and have them fitted by an Alfa specialist. You seem to think that's a risky proposition, I DON'T.
think I'll order the water pump at the same time...
Quote from: Jekyll and Hyde on March 23, 2012, 08:35:12 PM
Mark up and pricing. Comes up time and again on this forum. I wonder, do you guys realise this is NOT just limited to the auto trades? Nearly every single item that is retailed in Australia, retails for more than it does overseas - and that includes items that are MADE in Australia.
yes but times have changed....before the interwebs, only someone well connected within the trade could lay their hands on spare parts such as complete belt kits etc....now we press 'buy it now' and parcel arrives on our doorstep from anywhere in the world in around a week.
If mechanics need to put up their hourly rate to absorb this, fair enough, but its not unfair for a customer to suggest that he supplies the parts and pays the mechanic for fitting. This does happen in other trades.
Quote from: tony8028 on March 24, 2012, 10:51:34 AM
yes but times have changed....before the interwebs, only someone well connected within the trade could lay their hands on spare parts such as complete belt kits etc....now we press 'buy it now' and parcel arrives on our doorstep from anywhere in the world in around a week.
If mechanics need to put up their hourly rate to absorb this, fair enough, but its not unfair for a customer to suggest that he supplies the parts and pays the mechanic for fitting. This does happen in other trades.
Yes, everything can be bought online easily and cheaply, and I have no problem with that, I do it a lot myself. I don't feel, however, feel the need to tell everyone I can that my local bolt shop is a ripoff artist when I see the Engineers Black Book for sale at twice the price it is overseas - it's not their fault, they don't need to be abused as well as lose the sale.
I never said it was unfair for a customer to supply the parts. I do however feel that it is completely unfair to suggest a mechanic is throwing a tantrum when he refuses to supply a warranty on a job where he doesn't know the origin of the parts.
Quote from: darkstar on March 24, 2012, 01:57:41 AM
Jesus J&H, this seems to have got you worked up.
I simply meant that bills should accurately itemise what you're being charged for, but it doesn't really matter.
as has been said above, it's up to the individual to decide which way they want to go, and I'm not paying an extra $600 or $700, on what I think is bugger-all chance of there being a problem due to deficient quality parts. I intend to buy the parts from what is seemingly a reputable UK supplier, and have them fitted by an Alfa specialist. You seem to think that's a risky proposition, I DON'T.
think I'll order the water pump at the same time...
I'm not sure what you find inaccurate about your bills exactly... I'm sure when you buy a new tv or a couch, you don't expect to see mentioned on the invoice the stores cost price, and how much profit they are making, why should this be any different?
As far as 'risk' goes, I was more pointing out that a warranty doesn't just cover a labour related stuff up, which you seemed to be implying.
And as far as saving $6-700 over your LD quote, perhaps you should reread the posts in this thread by Trippytipo... Assuming I'm comprehending his (her?) posts correctly.
Quote from: Jekyll and Hyde on March 24, 2012, 12:19:55 PM
Quote from: tony8028 on March 24, 2012, 10:51:34 AM
I never said it was unfair for a customer to supply the parts. I do however feel that it is completely unfair to suggest a mechanic is throwing a tantrum when he refuses to supply a warranty on a job where he doesn't know the origin of the parts.
I like to think that we are paying a mechanic for their expertise and experience working on these specialized cars. AND Marking up the spare parts by 10-20% is fine, just like the 'workshop incidentals' like item on the bill. However, whacking a 100% mark up on the parts that enable them to do the very job that you are paying them to do a little rich IN MY OPINION ONLY (thats the important part!!)
Quote from: tony8028 on March 24, 2012, 01:35:56 PM
whacking a 100% mark up on the parts...
What are you basing that figure on, exactly?
Quote from: Jekyll and Hyde on March 24, 2012, 02:55:12 PM
Quote from: tony8028 on March 24, 2012, 01:35:56 PM
whacking a 100% mark up on the parts...
What are you basing that figure on, exactly?
$280 for a complete belt kit when purchased privately.
From the UK, a contact i know can source 2.5 and 3.2v6 cambelt/auxilliary kits for 260pounds including cam and balancer belt, fixed/adjustable tensioners, all auxilliary belts and tensionsers (all belts are dayco and all tensioners are OE). Without the auxilliary belts and tensioners its 150pounds. Water pump (metal impeller is 60pounds aftermarket though).
I think in today's market with things being so competitive, and the ease to source parts from overseas is really putting strain on the locals. But if the consumer can save hundreds or even $50 its better off in your pocket than someone elses. That $50 can buy you half the oil required for the oil change so effectively your getting more for your dollar.
Quote from: ANG156 on March 24, 2012, 09:18:06 PM
I think in today's market with things being so competitive, and the ease to source parts from overseas is really putting strain on the locals. But if the consumer can save hundreds or even $50 its better off in your pocket than someone elses. That $50 can buy you half the oil required for the oil change so effectively your getting more for your dollar.
Sounds fair to me.
Quote from: tony8028 on March 24, 2012, 07:56:20 PM
$280 for a complete belt kit when purchased privately.
So, you're guessing at the markup on a V6 cambelt kit, going off what you can buy a 4 cylinder kit off Ebay for?
ok bud.. i dunno why you are harping on this issue... it's cheaper o/s that's been established...this is what i paid for my v6 belt kit:
CAM KIT 2.5,3.2 24V V6 (1X CAM BELT OE ALFA,3 X TENS OE) £155.95
happy? oh btw, whenever i ask alfa for a common part - e.g. drop link, sump plug - i get "that will be [insert extortionate price here] and none are in stock in the country, so it will be about a 2 week wait from italy."
i had that on multiple occasions from alfa dealers which tells me they are probably sourcing the stuff cheap from o/s, keeping the margin, and shipping it in on a per order basis without keeping stock on hand for customers. IME. infer from that what you will.
Quote from: wankski on March 25, 2012, 01:37:01 PM
ok bud.. i dunno why you are harping on this issue... it's cheaper o/s that's been established...this is what i paid for my v6 belt kit:
Hey BUD... I'm not arguing that it's cheaper overseas. I'm arguing that the reason is NOT due to every Australian mechanic being out to rip anyone off who comes near him by putting on hundreds of percent markup. They simply cannot buy through their local suppliers at the same price as things RETAIL for overseas. Get it?
Quote from: wankski on March 25, 2012, 01:37:01 PM
happy? oh btw, whenever i ask alfa for a common part - e.g. drop link, sump plug - i get "that will be [insert extortionate price here] and none are in stock in the country, so it will be about a 2 week wait from italy."
Well, that is Alfa Romeo themselves, via ATECO (you know, the big company responsible for importing and distributing all the genuine Alfa gear). And I suspect a dealership might be at risk of losing their licence to sell Alfas if they sell anything other than genuine parts bought through ATECO. So why not ask ATECO why they feel the parts should cost considerably more here than overseas, instead of complaining that your favourite dealer charges too much for the parts.
Quote from: Jekyll and Hyde on March 25, 2012, 11:16:00 AM
So, you're guessing at the markup on a V6 cambelt kit, going off what you can buy a 4 cylinder kit off Ebay for?
It was just an approximation / example, keep your knickers on! :)
Quote from: Jekyll and Hyde on March 25, 2012, 02:13:33 PM
So why not ask ATECO why they feel the parts should cost considerably more here than overseas, instead of complaining that your favourite dealer charges too much for the parts.
despite the trolling i'll bite. when exactly did i complain? i personally am very happy with LD doncaster as i stated. They are happy to install my $300 oe part over their $1000 supplied part. I'm happy, they're happy.
Complain to ateco? hahahaha, yea... that's gunna get me far... and i s'pose i'll take on the rest of the distributors that do the same in Aus?
that said, i'm not sure they are getting it from ateco? if they were they would have stock on hand (and half justifying the cost) - but no. no common parts on hand.... two weeks from 'italy'.... now, i'm speculating here, but that reads to me they are ordering piece-meal from foreign sources.... i wouldn't be surprised if some of the stuff is the same oe packaged stuff some of us are getting from germany or even the UK. why not just out the middle man and get it for 1/3 the price?
anyway, the OPs question has been answered - he's got enough info to make an informed choice for himself. Thread's done.
Quote from: wankski on March 25, 2012, 02:55:24 PM
despite the trolling i'll bite.
Hmm it's an interesting definition of 'trolling' - you must think trolling means someone doesn't agree with you and takes the time to make some reasonable arguments?
Quote from: wankski on March 25, 2012, 02:55:24 PM
Thread's done.
On what basis are you declaring this?
Quote from: Evan Bottcher on March 26, 2012, 07:59:41 AM
Quote from: wankski on March 25, 2012, 02:55:24 PM
despite the trolling i'll bite.
Hmm it's an interesting definition of 'trolling' - you must think trolling means someone doesn't agree with you and takes the time to make some reasonable arguments?
Quote from: wankski on March 25, 2012, 02:55:24 PM
Thread's done.
On what basis are you declaring this?
not at all Evan. I am frequently wrong on a great many things. But what I do notice is that J&H likes to inflame threads by picking on something that is really a tangent.
I am basing "OP been answered" on this:
Quote from: darkstar on March 22, 2012, 03:20:58 PM
but I can source the parts VERY much cheaper online - from http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/
they're quoting me just over 300 Aussie in total, including delivery - so I don't know why local garages just don't source their bits from the net. But anyway...
so what I'm wondering is, should I get the idlers as well, or just the cam belt kit?
thanks for any guidance
his actual question was answered. Replace all. It was settled. All, i think including J&H agreed on that point (but i wont speak for him). So the topic has been exhausted.
what has been argued to death is sourcing of parts. did the OP ask that? I think the OP was fairly comfortable in sourcing it from OS. Yes, the pros and cons were discussed, but to harp on
advancing your theory when the OP has clearly stated he rather pay $300 o/s, is pointless ragging.
i guess i don't also like the 'tude shown to infrequent posters... inferring they can't do simple maths, or are just wrong... that's a good way to encourage them to come back isn't it?
anyway, I am done with this thread. I hope my answers, and the fashion they were given, was useful to the OP. Good luck with it all Darkstar.
This might be a little off topic and i do apologise.
But, did you call up any local parts suppliers such as "The Spare Place" and "Turin Imports" to see how much parts cost compared to overseas vendors??
I know they are generally really good with prices and know their Alfa's. They also support the Clubs and they're members as well. Plus it keeps an Australian citizen employed and not on the dole, which tax payers have to fork out money for. (That's a separate topic in itself)
So like i said it might be off topic, but maybe have a think about the bigger picture when buying parts from overseas vendors.
just my $0.02
Spare place have the cambelt kit for $295 for the 4cylinder including tensioner's, cam belt and balancer belt.
Quote from: darkstar on March 23, 2012, 04:55:27 PM
update: just rang LD:
- quoted total $1800 for cam belt replacement
- split was $1000 for the belt replacement kit, $800 labour
- asked if I could supply my own parts: 'yes, but we won't give you a warranty'
- what if they're genuine Alfa parts? - nope, no warranty
- what if I pay some extra for a warranty? - nope, no warranty
If you think about it, you're actually doing the mechanic a favour by supplying your own parts. Since he is not supplying you with a warranty on them he is actually reducing his liability if something were to go wrong.
All things go through a quality control system today where probably 1 in every 100 or 200 items will be tested. But what if a defect part is not caught through the system and installed by the mechanic and fails on the customer's car? Obviously the mechanic then has a liability to fix the problem no matter which way you look at it since he supplied a warranty for parts. It would cost the mechanic more in fixing re-works than anything else. Therefore, it makes better business sense not to provide a warranty on any parts supplied unless a specific manufacturer's warranty is associated with the items. If i were a mechanic, i would not provide a warranty on things outside of my control and this is generally the consensus used in other industries. It all comes down to limiting liability and sadly you only need a small thing to go wrong before you're up for a lawsuit.
ALWAYS get prices of parts from local and overseas, don't just listen to people like me!, sometimes locally they have specials on parts, eg $7 for Austrian Mahle oil filters for Alfa Romeo's, The Spare Place in Adelaide are very good, they know what people are doing and buying their parts overseas, so i don't think they need the message, if they are competative, buy local, as if they go out of business, it will be a sad day, as it will be another job lost in Australia, having said that i buy my parts 50-50 local and import, just depends on quality of part and how long it will take to get here and what happens if they send the wrong part, who pays the freight to send it back, my Alfa mate up the road has an incorrect exhaust from England, who is going to pay for the return freight?, if it was local, it might cost $50, back to the UK would be i reckon $200, and thats my 2 cents worth, Colin.
Did you got it done? and if yes how and where at what cost? I am actually in the same boat as you, I bought a 2001 GTV in NSW and need a timing belt change, I live in Geelong and nobody here want to touch a GTV... and I don't want to spend a fortune.
What about Geelong, isn't there an Alfa Dealer there?, or Ballarat, there is Stapletons, do not under any circumstances take it to a normal service centre, as you need special tools, such as cam locks, top dead centre gauge, flywheel locks, etc, on that side of the city there is Zagames in West Melbourne, Marranello Pursang Motors in Brunswick, to name a few, look up the service places on the service providers on the forum page, ring them up and have a chat to them, but don't leave it too long, as its 50,000 klms or 3 years on the twin spark timing belt intervals, a bit longer on the V-6, Colin.
Update, got belt done for my GTV3.0 at Eurocity Geelong. Sounded they know the engine well and belt changes are routine. Belt kit & installation and cooling system pressure tested (for waterpump) $1100.
Next thing is brakes (front rotors/lines), then some new suspension parts, then repaint..... and the issues I haven't found yet. When I look at the uk sites easy to spend a couple of grant more, q2, GTA flywheel, koni shocks, better stabilizer bars. It's all fun, but good I still have the falcon for boring trips.