Hi All, Just thought I would air this grievence amongst other gentlemen who may be suffering from the same complaint.Some months ago I had ordered from a well known and respected U.S. Alfa parts supplier, some aftermarket rubber sealing pieces for my 105 GTJ. According to their website the parts illustrated showed them to be compatable [I thought] with what I wanted,however now I have come to fit them I find they are not near as good as what one is made to believe. The parts I speak of are thus: the vertical [outer] rubber seals on the B pillar that the door closes on. These pieces as supplied are merely cut from a roll of available rubber sealing and sold on as an Alfa aftermarket spare part.They do not fit! the product supplied is much larger than original and is a lousy compromise,difficult to fit and not worthy of consideration. Don't bother with that ill fitting rubber! Next!.....I've spent most of today trying to get a bigger rubber on [the car thank you!], this also supplied by XXXXXXXXXX Alfa Parts.Again, this is another cut length from an available seal and again too large to be useful.this is the boot seal which is merely a push on to fit the boot ledge [not the boot lid stick on type].The product is twice the size it needs to be and after the struggle to get it on,[ooohhh the pain], I then found it impossible to close the boot lid.Any further action to make it fit would result in damage to the bodywork. Thats two ill fitting rubbers in a row,I am now looking at the CLASSICALFA Website,their stuff looks like it might be closer to what I need, If you have further comments on your own experiences with ill fitting rubber,please pass it on. there are some kinky people out there who would like to know. Regards....Ian
Been there done that, except with another make of car, how are your fingertips?, sore as, i know i swore and screamed so much, my throat was as sore as my fingers, only one thing to do, contact the supplier and send them back as they don't do the job, no matter how hard you try, they will never work, Colin.
All the repro ones are pretty average. A lot of grievances on the alfabb and a few suggestions. These guy have a close to original profile.
http://www.cicognaniguarnizioni.it/index.php?lang=en
I've just redone the doors and boot on my '74 Spider with the rubbers from Classic Alfa (UK). Freight was almost the same price as the goods, but they went on easily and fit well.
I bought the last few NOS sets of 105 GT door seals I came across; front and rear screens as well as b pillar rubbers. The repro door and screen seals are a real headache apparently due to numerous reasons, some profile some durometre, some just size - I just couldn't be arsed mucking around with aftermarket. If you see anything NOS rubber then buy it - if you can.
Genuine new rubbers are not easy to fit, genuine new old stock, that the rubbers have gone hard are are pain to fit, anything after market, thats cut off a roll, forget it, it will never work, in a previous life i used to make tooling for door, boot and hatch rubbers and we used to drill tiny holes about 2mm in the rubbers, so that when you shut the door or boot the air would escape out the holes and the rubber would collapse easy, so that the door wouldn't have to be slammed shut, the owner said only the premium rubber seal manufacturers do this little trick, so next time you are after rubbers, look for the tiny little holes, the original equipment manufacturers are required to do this by the local car companys, Colin.
I have bought all my reproduction rubbers so far from Classic Alfa for my Giulia Super and as am yet to fit them have no idea what they will be like. I like your idea Col of drilling some holes and will give this a go if I have any problems, as I can well understand the logic in doing this.
I am well familiar with the complaints re repro products as Derek notes. I havn't tried the Italian supplier to date but am aware of their good reputation.
Having just checked out their website, I can see they certainly stock what most would need (as do the UK based suppliers) so from my perspective this is far more convenient than trying to find NOS.
Mind you, and based on a very quick look, in comparison to Classic Alfa/Alfaholics the prices appear to be a little steep, so you would want to do your homework comparing prices from the various suppliers before deciding on who to purchase from. Horses for courses I suspect.
+1 here for the B pillar vertical seals being all but impossible to fit. Mine were from one of the UK guys - can't remember which.
//dean
Just to add to Colins comments.
The original 105 GT door seals also have slits/cuts in them - why I am not 100% sure, if it's for air or flexibility for fitting.
Here are the slits in mine and they came from a sealed bag.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x424/rotoso/IMG_0791.jpg)
If the rubber gaskets NOS or otherwise have been sitting in a cool / dry place they should be fine. If they have been in the sun or poor condtions then don't bother with them.
To get the air out of the rubber quickly the local trim manufacturer was told by the local carmakers to drill x number of i think 3mm holes per x length, they were not allowed to cut strips into them as shown as the strips will lengthen over time and the seal will collapse and have no sealing properties, best solution would be to get uncle Col to make some special drills for rubber, [joking], or get a small hot round soldering iron and burn some holes in the rubber to help with the exit of air, P.S, love the title of this subject, some people might think its about dodgy birth control products, and they don't need holes drilled in them, Colin.
Col, The Ones I have also have the holes. From the factory (unless the locals were sealing the bags post factory).
They were originally shipped to Germany in 1985.
Thanks for the input guys,i've reordered better quality ill fitting rubbers from the UK suppliers. I trust their illustration of the product they intend to send me is an accurate example of what they have to sell. I will inform all of my findings in due course. Some good has come of the ill fitting boot lid rubber that isn't. I cut it about so much that it's not returnable to the supplier but i did find a place for it. The engine bonnet flange [underbonnet in front of the air intake plenum below windscreen] is a good place to fit the metre or so that I didn't root up elsewhere. I now have some left that someone may want to use for the same purpose,it's free to a good home,but you gotta pick it up.If you arrive with a couple of stubbies, i'll even fit it for you. That offer only suits Melb. based blokes.[or sheilas!].For the moment, I have refitted the original boot lid rubber, to keep some of the rain out at least! I got some door rubbers from the US supplier, haven't tried to fit them yet. Obviously they were not cut from a roll of "one size fits all" and I need to see the results when I attempt to fit "em before I can comment. They do not have the machette slashes that are depicted in Pancho's Pics! I would be concerned a little if I found my unopened packet of rubbers had been attacked in that fashion, The results in the use of that product could only end in disaster. Col! Did you you read something into my post that I missed!!!....Cheers ....Ian
Just thought I would add some more fuel to this thread while it's still warm! I have to fit a new head lining to the GTJ and was contemplating the work program. O.K. we know the front and rear screens have to come out to do that[successfully] and I was looking at my 40 year old screen rubbers and thinking,well, can they stand the trauma of R&R without disintergrating! So, What are the fitment problems involved with the latest CAD/CAM supplied screen rubbers? are they of useable quality or if they are of the ill fitting variety [expected?] should one smear the old ones with generous quantities of Vaseline and hope that they can stand up again [to adverse conditions!] ...Balls in your court Gentlemen....Cheers.....Ian
If your windscreen rubbers are more than 20 years old, then they will most likely fall apart when you remove them, and they will be all hard and inflexable, so you will have trouble getting them back in the car, and are you going to put a new windscreen in, or try and save the old one?, putting one in with inflexiable seals is a recipe for breaking one, however here are a few tips for reusing windsreen rubbers, give them a good cleanup with terry towelling material and mineral turpentine to remove all the old windscreen sealant, then finally wash it in wash and wax car wash, as this will give a slippery sheen to the rubber to help it slip in, use talcum powder on the body openings and windsreen rubber to help it slip in, if possible buy good quality new seals, but how do you know they are good quality until you buy them?, you think why won't this screen go in, is it me or are these seals rubbish?, there in lies the dillema, Colin.
Signor McAnnik,
Just a penny's worth ... ?
I believe that the older windscreen rubbers may have been made from latex (i.e vegetable product).
Vaseline is a petroleum product (used to be called petroleum jelly when I was a lad).
Petroleum products and latex are not compatible. (For the same reason, we use a different types of oil in our brake systems to the stuff we put in the engine. The seals in the brakes are or used to be latex based - nowadays they are probably silicone based. But I digress.)
Therefore, I would recommend NOT using vaseline.
A good "rubber grease" (from Repco or elsewhere) should do the trick, if you really need lubrication.
But Col's suggestions / recommendations come with much experience, so I'd be trying his ideas before any others.
Peter.
And another stupid tip on installing rubbers, make sure your finger nails are not short!, pushing the rubbers into position needs all the strength of your fingers, clip your nails and the tips of your fingers will not have enough support, and they need all the support they can get, and the tips of your fingers will ache for days, i know i did it a few weeks ago, Colin.
I had seals i bought from Alfaholics back in 2007 and tried fitting them a couple months ago... they install OK (still a total pain) but the door needs to be slammed waaaaaaaay too hard, to the point where its just not worth it.
I took them out and put the old rubbers back in as they weren't all that bad.
I do not know if the seals you can get now are the same as in 2007.
I read somewhere that you can get rubber softening spray which helps the rubber form when the door is in the shut position but i have never come across it.
The rubber softening gloop is available at go-kart places, they use it for softening the rubber tyres on go-karts to give the tyre more grip, you could try applying it and slamming the door shut, and hoping the rubber will change shape to suit the door, ill fitting seals - what a massive pain in the bum, Colin.
Interesting you mention that! It brings back memories of a previous life in my early days of the auto repair industry. The trick was then to fit the new [ex GENUINE spare part,Holden Ford, Whatever!] and readjust the lock slam plate on the B pillar, this worked a treat until complaints of door rattles meant another adjustment to tighten it up again some time later.Things really don't change all that much, even these days! Don't be so fussy about door closure gaps until things have "settled"then try another time ["about 6 months should do it"].We were using Vaseline in those days, for all sorts of things![Don't ask me why!] I was an uncouth, untrained and entirely gullible dickhead kid and I was trained by experts in a solid guv'ment job.An apprenticeship in that environment! meant i thought I knew it all! Things have not changed and 50+ years later,i'm an irritable old brstrd and still up myself,and still tell todays kids that I HAVE FORGOTTEN MORE THAN YOU WILL EVER LEARN! [Thats what the old hands used to tell me!Now i'm "elderly" maybe they were right!]....Keep the info coming guys, If it isn't written down nobody can ever refute it......Cheers... Ian
Well! I was going to start a new thread on the same topic but decided to keep the storyline flow going. Since my last post I have recieved my shipment of new ill fitting rubbers from the UK. Today I fitted, WITHOUT any dramas,the B pillar outer [door slam] rubbers on my GTJ. The rubbers as supplied are not original but even though cut from a roll of 'one size fits all" they are a very good compromise considering that original style profile is NLA.I had no real problem fitting, just some minor trimming at one end,and swear words were few and far between[coz I was slurping a lager as well].I purchased these rubbers from ClassisAlfa UK. after viewing their well illustrated parts website and the end on profile of the rubbers as shown told the story that it was a damn good close enough to concours [read original!]example that you are likely to find.It fits well AND looks the goods and not expensive, I did buy other "ill fitting rubbers" as well so had combined postage on quite a few items, I am yet to fit the other IFR's but will of course write about those episodes when that happens. Windscreen rubbers are next on the agenda.....I'm REALLY looking forward to that!!!! Have you got an IFR story to tell too???? Write it here, there's plenty of room for more. Cheers.......Ian. A , PS. to the above . The metal support pieces that the B pillar rubbers push fit onto should also be in good condition as their shape is required to support the IFR it the correct position.I had to weld a little metal on to the bottom of the pieces I had to replace rusted sections, replace those pieces also if your keen.
The saga continues!! I have not seen this one mentioned before,the procedure for fitting the interior floor mounted rubber boot that encompasses the upright clutch and brake pedals.Mine was looking very ordinary as was the holding down metal surround for it which was mostly rusted away. Warp speed delivery from ClassicAlfa and i had the parts on Monday so spent today fitting it in the car. To fit the boot requires removal of the entire pedal assembly and dismantling the pedals as it is not possible to fit the boot unless they are removed from the pivots.Fitting is not simple and needs careful stretching to slide the 'lubricated' rubber over the pivot bosses (the boot wont fit over the footpad end and you will destroy the rubber if that method is attempted).My method was to swamp everything in dishwashing liquid (make it slippery,very good for ill fitting rubbers! olive oil works well too, then you can lick your fingers after..after what???) and prise gently stretching the rubber over the large end of the pivot boss first.It is best not to poke with a screwdiver but use it as a lever working the rubber sideways pushing with your fingers (ooh.... The pain!!!).It took a while to do the job but now I know how I could probably do it now in five minutes.Also recommended is to check the fitting of your new metal holding bracket (assuming you did buy one!)to the floor and boot.Some metal removal is required to obtain a good fit to the boot itself, not difficult with a small grinder.Clean and lube up the pedal pivots while you have it apart,or if they are stuffed as they well might be then rebushing is called for. I was lucky with mine, it being a genuine low mileage car, (108000 miles!)I drilled a small hole in each so a squirt of oil is possible occasionally......Cheers...Ian
I did this a while ago - I used boiling water to soften the rubber, and a plastic bag and lots of olive oil. I just grabbed the rubber and pulled it until it went *POP* and no tears. I've heard that different manufacturers are more/less fragile - this one was from highwood alfa and it was fine...
(http://alfa.bottch.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/IMG_1257.jpg)
Great idea Evan! I hadn't thought of using Vegemite as well!...... I cant imagine what you would be doing with the grapes!!!
Hi All, made a big boo boo yesterday.I went to Clark Rubber and bought a length of "one size fits all" boot seal for the 105 GTJ. Their sample board showed exactly my wanted piece, I purchased 3 mtrs and went home to fit it, no prize for guessing here! it was wrong! I have reason to complain here as it seems their sample board is wrongly made up, as the sample i took with me matched what I wanted but the number did not when actually cut from the roll for me, my fault as well coz I didn't look what was happening during the"snipping". Clark's DO have in stock what you want, just double check your purchase before you fork out the dosh! Don't expect young guys serving on the floor at Clark's to know what an Alfa actually is!.....................Good Luck!....
Is this for the boot lid mounted gasket or the body mounted one?
Sorry about that, I was refering to the body mounted type................Cheers
They also have one that's a good match for the bootlid mounted seal
Love this thread as have not changed the door rubbers on my 105 but need to! Lots of good info.
Tend to agree with Pancho re NOS but FYI, have been discussing door rubbers with Classic Alfa for a while and they have just changed the supplier of the rubbers they stock. Apparently - tried 12 different types of after market rubbers on an original 64 GT and chose an Italian supplier - rubbers are very subtle and fit without a problem and are circa $65 each (pending the $A) - guess shipping aint cheap.
Paul
Thanks for the tip Ben, just need to ensure the bootlid underside is the same on both the old lids and the 1750 S2 lids and onwards.
Also be interesting to see how the bootlid seal stays on. Double sided tape? **shudder**
I used loctite contact cement to glue the seal to the lid - don't think it'll come off in a hurry.
Well! It's been a while since this topic had some air play! I thought I had better add a little more info for those of rubber fitting bent!!!!. O.K! whats new is not!! I had been thinking for a while on a better method than Factory to resist rainwater penetration between outer furry strip and wind up side windows on 105 GT'S. (To stop excess water defeating the lack of sheet plastic , that you SHOULD HAVE fitted on the inner doors under the door cards and stuffing totally your door cards!) Rather than the original type of furry stuff that you can get, I have opted for the more modern type of razor edge scraper style which is very effective at keeping water out but, will not suit the conkers people, however,it works very well. Easily fitted to your own outer stainless steel furry strip holder, once you have got it removed, (" thats another story"). Available from Scott's Old Auto Rubber in Oakleigh, Vic. Check their Website. It comes in 2.4 metre lengths, costs about fifty bucks and needs to be cut to shorter pieces for transport via post, (or pick it up yourself,) it has a steel stiffening insert moulded in and doesn't bend easily.You will need to be prepared to lose a little length, or buy two lengths and have enough to do three cars, you only need about 660mm for each side for a GT. The catalogue reference # is 216.014. the guy knows what you want! P.S. Don't forget to renew the plastic skin under your door card! Cheap, from Bunnings! and stick it up under the inner door frame, not on the outer side under the door card as original! (Thanks to "Pancho" for that basic suggestion!) Pain in the bum to do it that way ,BUT, no water will get in to stuff up your expensive new "dunnit yourself" door trims! ....Thats all folks.........for the moment!!...................................Cheers
Hi My two bobs worth on the plastic under the door card make up pieces of sheet with enough too stick at top edge silicone is good on clean surfaces ,cut and trim three other edges to tuck in to the various shapes of openings with enough length to stay in without fouling anything. This way you don't need to rely on the bottom edge being water tight. Then by all means put a large piece over the whole of the card . Also worth using the door handle seal that late 2l had needs a bit of filing to make fit but no more water ingress around the handle. regards john
For the record the recommendation/idea I gave came originally from Paul Rankin!
I agree with John - the more you can do to protect the door cards the better.
There is a little more to add here while we are fiddling around at the side wind up window area on 105 GT's. there is an area devoid of water resistance in the forward 6 inches or so of the outer stainless steel 'furry/rubber holder. The part running parallel to the front 'pivoting' vent window appears to never have been waterproofed in any way to resist ingress of rainwater! Water will dribble in there but can be prevented by a smear of Silastic or similar product applied during assembly or patient poking with a cotton bud, messy but cleanable after your efforts! Also if you intend to replace the U shaped rubber that fits under / along the length of the SS strips 'both front and rear' side window, the correct profile is also available from the same emporium, about $11.50 a metre, 4 metres is plenty! Check the Company website, their range of obsolete rubber related stock is extensive even if not original to your application, some are adaptable with little effort especially the vent window rubber itself. This comes with pre-moulded 'bend' for easy adaption. Maybe better to try the local stuff that may do the job rather than the 'off the roll' imported stuff that doesn't fit at all!! ...........................OOOhhhh the pain!!!! continues........................................Cheers!
Back again with more of the same. I know you have been waiting for "what's next" episodes! This month is windscreens and rear 'demister screen' removal and refit. I needed to remove these items as a new headlining was to be installed. (A ClassicAlfa kit!).There was a minor rust bubbling in the flange area that needed attention so double reason to attend to it right then.(That was not really a problem, a few rust perforations only on the lower corners of the screen corners, easily rust converted and "glassed over", I don't use Bog!). To get your screens out needs a little dexterity because you need to lay down in the car (seats removed if you must!) and put your size nines on the top corners of the screens and PUSH (gently but with force.) to pop them out. Before you do that, removal of the Ally strip rubber surround insert is essential, then loosen the gunk sealant around the screen to body area with a wide flat tool (not a screwdriver!). If you crack the screen, Bad luck, call O'Brian! Attend to your needs,(the reason you took the glass out in the first place!). To refit, (I assume your putting the originals back in!). Spend many hours cleaning the rubbers for re use, providing they are still supple enough for that purpose, most are by my experience. Your chosen local W/sceen fitter will charge you less if you do a good job! Ha! you thought I was going to tell you how to refit your glass, Right! I could do that but there is plenty of that advice around for you to peruse if you must. Get the Pro to do it, if he fux up your new screen or your perfectly good rear demister screen on instalation, guess who pays for it!!.....................
PS to the above............It is essential to be careful removing the Ally insertion (decoritive) strips from the W/screen rubber. Try very hard not to bend or distort these items on removal. otherwise difficulty wiil arise trying to refit them.Pulling upwards is correct to release the strip from the rubber but minimise the bow , the strip will bend very easily. Some liquid detergent squrted in here will be of help!. If by chance you have bent the insert, gently bend it back again (goes without saying really!) If your Ally strips are a bit seedy looking, it may be possible to have them repolished and re-anodized, but I don't know who does this in Melbourne......................................Over to those in the know!!.
Re Aluminium strips - don't under any circumstances try to remove them while the windscreen is in the car. It's not necessary, and you will bend them. You can get the shape back, sorta, but the anodised surface crazes and they will never look the same.
Hi,i have replaced nearly all my rubbers fro my 72 spider. I got most of them from Classic Alfa and I'm extremely happy with their service and products Also a notable mention for Alfa 105 Alive . Angelo Has been a great help and his service so far the best I have had. Regards to you all.
Tony