Help.. motivate me
I simply don't have enough time to do everything; family, work, reno house, restore Duetto. This car... a car that i lovingly bought back on our return to Aust. from the UK.. has sat accumulating dust and additional microns of rust for 12 months now, whilst I piss away money on the the odd obvious shiny thing from Alfaholics & ClassicAlfa etc.. less than 48hours of eastcoast gumball (Melb-Bris) have redlined her lovingly renewed 2L Nord (thanks Scott).
QLD rego was denied due to surface rust on the floor (okay several holes, might be structural, i've lost weight.. who can tell!)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/motivation.jpg)
It's not (really) a matter of money.. more a case of time management and me wanting to be involved in her rebirth.
I've sourced OEM panels to replace anything with a dent, rust or hysterical welding (all floors, nose, that arch, the boot).
I've a twinspark awaiting carrillo rods, schmick pistons and a ported head with ITBs
Today, I stand at the crossroads of total paint removal.
Complete dip immersion (Alkaline) by Redistrip (http://"http://www.redistrip.com.au/")in NSW (est. A$3K) or a professional mediablast for the chasssis and dip anything that bolts off by PJs here in Brisbane.. it's about twice as much for the redistrip ($not an issue), more a logistical get it to Sydney thing. Some people hate dipping, personally i like the idea of converting all rust in the many seams back to a metal (?) and etch coating the #uck out of anything that was joined.
I'm reaching out to the Brisbane Alfisti.. i've a twinspark to rebuild, a body to dip/blast, weld and paint.. where are you :)
or perhaps you can recommend something else to procrastinate upon.. local upholstery.. sinful red leather (i'm going maseratti sky blue.. sorry 514 red)
yes i've had too many reds tonight.. it's 2012 OP planning budget time at work
:)
Leave it as it is. I reckon it looks great with that patina, set off beautifully by those magnificent wheels, and topped off fittingly with the glass of red.
Fix any rust, but try to keep the original paint. Just my opinion, and I'm sure not what you want to hear, and bound to be out of step with every other 105 fanatic, but I just love original paint, even if especially if it's faded, makes the car look well-loved.
Aghhh the slippery slope begins. Good luck Craig and stick to your plan. Whatever that may be.
... there's nothing original about the 3 colours red (nine actual coats.. i've counted them, 1/16 deep inch in some parts) she has seen in the last 44 years. great film btw, although i suspect there is more betty blue in her at the moment.
no plan here.. i reaching out !!
(did you find a twinspark yet?)
You'd laugh but I have everything sitting on the bench to build an awesome TS motor - except a good block....still looking.
Get yourself an excel spreadsheet as well as the idea of what you want to end up with, then have a few more glasses of red. Find the bits you need to replace and do some reading on the forums for each stage of the project to try catch as many issues as possible. Once you strip the paint it can get pricey very quickly as what lurks under the paint can either be ok or fargen rooted. Dipping is apparently great at removing everything but realistically how can you clean it all 100% and then get etch into the inside of every nook cranny and internal metal box section within the frame ect. Blasting or hand stripping might be a better idea. At least you can paint strip it yourself and then blast the remainder of the paint that you can't strip easily.
Just allow at least 30k for body, paint and interior, then perhaps another 15k for motor gb and rear end. And that's probably conservative and hopeful the body is in a good state. If it's not in the budget then maybe just repair the rust and drive the hell out of it now.
Fail to plan, plan to fail. You should know that Craig!
I thought you had a duetto?
Looks like a Duetto to me... nice pic, btw. Glad there's no can of xxxx.
Sorry, I should say round tail (graduate) is that what they call a s1 duetto?
Yes, it's an original Australian delivered '66 Duetto (aka S1, Roundtail, Graduate, osso) = build number 57 i think :)
Quote from: pancho on October 11, 2011, 11:41:24 PM
You'd laugh but I have everything sitting on the bench to build an awesome TS motor - except a good block....still looking.
I is the king of iterative planning and have several excel spreadsheets for the donk and body. Twinspark engine R&D seems to be maturing at the moment (AlfaBB) so i am concentrating on the body to ensure i don't miss anything later. I bought the twinspark when it popped up on eBay... squirreled it away for later. I really want the smoothness of ITBs and mappable ignition and yes carbs will be an easier fit.
What's a 2L nord worth, anybody want one (exAlfetta).. as i've nowhere to store it once pulled .. and if i was going to store anything it'd be an original 1.6 (swapsie?)
Don't tempt me with another block to litter my garage floor! I have five in there already and that is after selling four!
Well I think you have already met Adrian from my body shop though I might have scared him away from 105 series Alfas! And I have kept my car there way too long so he has wised up and I think it would need to be a well funded project to go through as my dribs and drabs payments must be annoying!
Cameron at Automotion is pretty wised up on twinsparks, last time I talked to him there was one going into his Giulia. Soda Blasting is a gentle way of removing the paint, then get the rusty bits blasted with walnuts or something, then cut all the bad bits out, etc.
Pancho scares me with his numbers but I am not going the rotiserie way with mine so the final cost will be alot less than that. My goal is a rust free, bog free, straight, well painted car, that I can drive the snot out of! Bodywork is by far the most expensive part, but gives you good peace of mind knowing what is under the paint. \
If I had your car, I'd leave the engine and engine bay for later, get the rest of the body sorted and enjoy for a while, then go back and sort the driveline. The 2L in it is pretty strong isnt it?
Good luck with it Scott and get it happening soon. '66 is a good year!
Quote from: Derek Entesano on October 12, 2011, 09:52:08 AM
If I had your car, I'd leave the engine and engine bay for later, get the rest of the body sorted and enjoy for a while, then go back and sort the driveline. The 2L in it is pretty strong isnt it?
If anyone wants a tight 2L alfetta->105 convo engine with low miles ready to go - this is it - I can supply rebuild pics :)
Quote from: Derek Entesano on October 12, 2011, 09:52:08 AM
Good luck with it Scott and get it happening soon. '66 is a good year!
Him Craig, Me Scott :) '66 is a fantastic year !
Craig - did you end up having a chat with Vyvian at 105 Factory / Art On Wheels here in Melb - he might be the best person I can think of to recommend an approach
At a guess, to Dip & Strip & Convert with 100% confidence, you'd need to have the 2 outer sills removed (and the chassis braced with some box or angle while they're off) or at least good access cut into them, the rear seat/shelf taken off, and the chassis rails opened up a little more than the 2-3 little holes they have to drain at the moment - just to be sure of good contact on everything.
Maybe have it soda / media / walnut blasted first - then go over it and see how solid everything is with all the gunk off - if the core is ok - seal it all back up and get stuck into welding the floors and nose in, if it's toast - open her up and get dippin... (how lewd ! )
Great shot btw - commuted 40km a day in that car for the years I had her - never tired of admiring the lines when walking up to the car - even with all that patina :) I remember a guy at work asking me "you going to fix her up, or is that just how you roll..." hahahaha
Stop resting the bonnet back on the nose :P
Cheers,
Quote from: AikenDrum105 on October 12, 2011, 10:30:32 AM
Him Craig, Me Scott :) '66 is a fantastic year !
Oh yeah, I do that alot. Worked with people for years and still can't remember their names!
I'd love a duetto.
I think after the GT build I'll kick off a duetto build. So keep your excellent project updated Craig and I can live your wins and hopefully not too many losses.
(http://www.auto-conceptfocus.info/images/1968-alfa-romeo-duetto-boat-tail.jpg)
(http://www.gwandrw.com/Images-SN0%20Alfa/rod%20mcnae%20Duetto%20sml.jpg)
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/19595653.jpg)
After seeing the photos posted by Pancho of what she does/could look like doesn't that inspire you enough? tidying her up or redoing the lot - - - either way she will be beautiful......sorry mate I can not offer much technical help so trying to give you some emotional inspiration. Looks like some of the guys here have offered some ideas already.
Not to mention these are getting rarer and rarer.....
I have one in a similar state that I intend to start soonish - I probably will hand it over to some one though due to lack of time and ability so is that an answer?
Good luck either way
Emmanuel
Don't dip it - there's aluminium spacers buried in the rails where the steering box and idler box bolt on - they have a habit of disolving when dipped. Can also cause issues where seam sealer was used when the car was built.
Don't soda blast it - there's starting to be paint adhesion issues in more than a few cars that were soda blasted - the painter still has to go over the entire car and key the surface anyway after the repairs are done with soda, and proper prep is proving hard for some.
A competent media blaster can sand blast and epoxy prime the shell for you with out warping it - there's a Mob out at Caboulture/burpengary that i'm planning on using after i finish the obvious stuff on my car that have done a number of cars and panels for a mate of mine who's a painter (i'm also doing a chemical strip at home on the bulk of the car to make sure i haven't missed anything) - once it's blasted (sand - which keys the surface very nicely) and epoxied, it can basically sit indefinitly - this what *alot* of high end resto joints do ( have a poke around at some of the Vintage Custom threads on the BB). Then with it in epoxy, you do your repairs, knock it as straight as you can, hit the repairs with epoxy and then off to paint.
Ben
Good point on the soda blast. My doors, bonnet, boot were done this way, but we still had to spend a lot of time making sure there was no residue and resanding everything. I only did it on the big surfaces and it was reassuring to know there was no chance of panelwarp. It is all in the prep, I got in trouble a few times for touching bare metal and was lectured about the oils in my skin!
Call Austec at Moorebank to find out more re blasting media pros and cons.
I've been researching the pros and cons for... far...too... long...
I'm comfy with a complete dip but logistically (syd vs bris) it's a pain, they also can't epoxy dip/paint, so flash rust in the nether regions become an issue.
So, decision made.
Dipping the doors/bonnet/boot/dash - maybe the wings as the nose is coming off anyway
(although there is a shed load of scary spot welds on the wings)
Sand blasting the body
First door (and it's new skin) is at PJs now for a test dip and epoxy. I'm going to use 3M epoxy to reskin.. Looks easy :D
Where's the best place to get original sound proofing.. Alfaholics/classic/highwood?
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/NoSkin.jpg)
As you can see, I've done a bit of stripping by hand already.. Its just going to take too long and I want bare metal everywhere. Do it once, pay once yada yada
BTW My boot is a tad crumpled. If anybody knows of a solid unmolested (never dented) one please let me know, the std. patch panel (I have) looks labor intensive to fit and my philosophy(?) for the body is to return as new..no bogs or patchwork welds.
That black Duetto to looks spectacular .. Black wouldn't highlight the curves like a nice metallic blu though.. would it (bueller)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/th_blueduettotaillight.jpg) (http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/?action=view¤t=blueduettotaillight.jpg)
I feel another year of painful internal monologues about colour coming up .. And I'm colour blind ;D
how often do these duetto's come up for sale and what would one expect to pay for one? I have a friend who is very keen on ownership.
I suspect the answer is relatively simple Pancho. Out here in Aus, only occasionally, as fundamentally they are pretty scarce. In the US, far more often and in differing conditions from resto projects (read cheap to buy) to immaculate and read relatively pricy.
Out here these days they are far more expensive than Kamn tail spiders, and from the relatively few I have seen in recent years you would be pretty lucky I would suggest to find one sub $15-20K and that wouldn't necessarily get you an immaculate one.
I've only seen two advertised (mainstream) since we returned from the UK in '09.
Both cars are likely known to this board or the alfaBB. I never viewed either in person, however i was considering traveling to see the first in Sydney as i'd seen it many times at the Canberra italia day (have old photos of the nose for reference... Duetto thing). Lovely car (and owner), restored asking about $24K.
The second was more recent, a Brisbane car which also looked lovely, asking $35K.
I've seen two basket cases on aust. eBay, I don't remember if they were RHD/LHD to be honest, they missing lots of parts and I was coveting their unblemished boot lids. They were in the $5-10k range.
I've no idea how many there are in Aust., I suspect more than people expect. I've seen two in Brisbane when I least expected it. One was particularly cool. White with the "original" hardtop. Fricken sweet, made my day. Actually I'd be interested to hear from all and any Duetto owners, be interesting to see where they all are.
And before you ask, no. I will not be selling mine again. It broke my heart to let her go the first time and I jumped at the chance to have her back. As you know the accumulated parts, bits and pieces that go into these restos are completely uneconomic. I don't think I could even be persuaded swap her for a 101/750 spider (denial, first weapon in an Alfa owners armoury).
What about this colour combo Craig - red seats with Navy blue (sorry, there should be a code for it).
(http://dlcache.com/images/291/67duetto.com.gif)
There's a couple of blues that might be: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/car-restoration/3895-1972-alfa-romeo-color-chart-reference-materials.html
Some progress ;D
This door was pulled apart for a new skin as the original had a large dent and kilograms of bog. I hand prepped the frame as you can see in the original photos but was unhappy with the flash rust in the cavities I couldn't get into. So, I had the frame (alkaline) dipped then lightly blasted. The skin was hand prepped before everything was epoxy primed.
I'm chuffed to bits, looks great. I'm planning on using 3M epoxy to put this back together.. interested in any and all opinions on why I shouldn't ??
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/711735c7.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/76266836.jpg)
Bonnet is next (dip). Only blasting if stubborn rust is found.
I'm going to hand strip the other door skin to see if it is okay.
Then the boot/trunk :(
I already have the lower patch skin but I'd much rather get a perfect one, the work involved to fit the skin looks horrendous ... Anybody know anybody in Brisbane who could do that (fit the skin patch) ... I've a lead on a 1750 trunk from the states which looks nice although it has all the holes for the 1750 badges etc. Need to agree a price so I can figure out if shipping will make it uneconomic.
Looks great Craig!
How will you get etch primer ect into the underside of the bonnet cavities (between the skin and the frame areas) after dipping the panels ?
You'll find that shipping a bonnet of this size from the US will be between $450-600 or so. It's crazy expensive :( - I wanted to get some smaller items brought over and the pricing from TNT, DHlL ect was still overly priced.
Fantastic work Craig!
So this the paint I am working with... and the reason we're going back to metal for those of you who said "roll it as it is".. It's been rolled, passed to the left and smoked for far too long, trust me.
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/c6abfea8.jpg)
That's lovingly original AR514 under badly applied, purportedly AR501..
It's a funny thing red.. When I first saw AR514(farina) I hated it.. It was bad 70's, clean the pool porn, wackawacka guitar colour for me. I wanted proper AR501 - or really porsche guards red(?). The older I get though, the more I appreciate the AR514 (and 70's porn). Simple really does work.
That said, I'm tired of red (sorry). I always find the bright Australian sunlight makes red looked washed out and dusty here. Present procrastination thinking is periwinkle(?)AR349 blu metallic like thus (below). Anybody have good photos for this or indeed ideas for a period Italian metallic purply/sky blue? To be honest the beige epoxy primer is the most beautiful thing the car has going for it at the moment. And yes I've said it before, I'm colour blind so this is a most difficult choice :)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/fcb7081b.jpg)
(UK car from alfaBB)
Bonnet and scuttle are off for the same treatment as the door.
The nose and wings are next, anybody have experience of where to sawzall first :)
.. already have a replacement nose (+bump)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/DSCF0988.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/DSCF1032.jpg)
Took the LH front wing, door and rear panel back to metal this weekend.. the wing has some battle scars, the door on the other hand is surprisingly whole. The rear arch has a crack/split although that was obvious before. There are also a few bumps which look like they'd be simple to pull or knock out. All the other metal looks great. I think I might go Harrods Sheik chrome instead of AR349 periwinkle blue :)
The whole side of the car was coated in thick filler, producing kilos of dust and finally some nice lines. The metal seems fine, who knows what they were thinking when they repainted (iced) it. It's certainly sheds lighter and more lithe looking now. (I got carried away with a new strip wheel, hence why the door handle is still on)
Also got the bonnet and scuttle back from the dippers, the latter looks great the bonnet is a sad beaten, cracked history of poor parking... or the odd shag on the bonnet.. who knows, either way it's perhaps more economic to replace.. If anybody knows of a local new or perfect used, please let me know.
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/6ee29f1f.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/c788b996.jpg)
Craig
Fantastic work.
I love how, in the back of a few pics, the TwinSpark lurks.. biding it's time ....
Two new wings and outer sills ordered...
I should really fire up the Kempi and see if I have any welding talent before I get too carried away with my new sawzall (AEG) :D
Actually, if anybody wants the old wings.. or parts thereof, let me know.. so I cut nicely :)
Ta da..
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/c5335e89.jpg)
Anybody got a lead on a new Duetto bonnet.. Mine is toasty
Strike that.. new bonnet has arrived.
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/Bonnets.jpg)
Side by side shot, for those of you playing at home. I think the frame structure changed between the 1600 Duetto and the 1750 Veloce. The OCD alfapurists amongst you may have a fit that I'm not reskining this with recycled Russian steel hand stretched by Italian virgins... but I can't afford them any more (I don't know what I can afford any more, I'm not looking).
My pièce de résistance is on it's way... can't say what it is yet, don't want to jinx anything :D
Seems to me the one on the right has better skin bracing geometry and will result in less flexing during washing and polishing and likewise from air moving over it at speed.
BTW I believe that the combination of Italian & virgins is an oxymoron.. :D
Been a while between updates .... I tracked down the eight pieces that make up the radiator support cross member bit (technical term) a month or so ago.. completely different to the later Veloce, Junior and S2 cars of course :D
My latest procrastination efforts have finally rewarded me thus ..... ta da !!
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/OEMDuettonose.jpg)
Replacement nose for a roundtail, Veloce/Junior (obviously :) for those still playing at home there's a hole in the lower panel, the Duetto had no hole). I'm told it's original.. I have my doubts, it's definitely old and constructed from three separate pieces. Lower, Scudo heart and top. I think I've seen them portrayed thus in an old parts manual... Anybody have any history, thoughts, gossip
It has part number 10503 54 040 0102 written on it... which is apparently correct...ish
I should note, I already have good reproduction pieces for the nose bump and topcowl, so will see which one looks and fits the best.
I really ought to fire up the welder.. Anybody wanna help ;D
May I present my rotisserie, resplendent with revolutionary axial freedom.
Also removes the need to weld upside down which is a good thing as my upside down welding is cark.
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/imagejpg1_zps078133ee.jpg)
Yes, I may have under estimated the amount of metal above the midline (axis) .. We'll see what happens tomorrow.
Hoop ID is 1800m, centre of axis (height) in line with adjustable arm mounts (holes)
Frame is fixed to steering box mounts and rear trunion.
Really quite solid
**Note to self, drain fuel before rolling over :)
(http://media3.giphy.com/media/1jnyRP4DorCh2/giphy.gif)
;D
I wish I'd built something like that when I did mine...
Did a bit of old school panel beating today... These ends were creased and folded up like an old bit of paper inside the radiator supports (under the front cowl), impossible to see given the bog and mastic that was slathered around it. Still need to work that crease out of the RH side.
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/imagejpg3_zps8b7c2019.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/imagejpg4_zps59e819f0.jpg)
I'm half way through removing the front bar.. One side was easy :)
In other news, the LH bottom bit is as toasty as thought :)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/imagejpg1_zpsbab116e4.jpg)
Somebody paid good money to hide all this repair!
I could rebuild it out of galv using the good RH side as a template.
But then I wonder if anybody might have a LH front cut, from the castor rod forward... that is "whole" ?
(Anybody, anybody, anybody.... Bueller)
I'll remove the battery tray tomorrow, reveal the complete devastation.
Battery tray out... Somebody has mucked around in here before too, FFS!!
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/imagejpg2_zpsdf7c05de.jpg)
I cut the rail back to 'good' metal, somebody else hacked the inner wing?
Will reconstruct all this using the RH side as a template.
Interesting construction the inner wings.. Absolutely no protection on the inside as per factory, wonder if I can squirt some POR and cavity wax in there
On mine I found evidence of the panels having been phosphated or something, but it's not a great deal of protection when it's trapped water.
I reckon you'll be hard pressed to find a donor section, they all trap water and battery acid on the passenger side, my drivers side was good, passenger not so much!
Yep, I agree. I've started templating bits to reconstruct it. All good experience :)
Changed the nylon boat rollers for some HD castors with proper bearings..... and immediately the centre of gravity declares it's 10-20cm top heavy, it tried to roll straight upside down on its own :)
Can spin it easily, will post up some pics.. Very cool if i do say so myself.
No excuse not to actually work on the car now, although it needs a brake.
Tempted to move the front hoop to the A-Arm pickups, the steering box pickup takes up a lot of room.
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/imagejpg1_zps46a6e7e7.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/imagejpg1_zps4b50bcfa.jpg)
Out with the first half of the old floors. There were patches on patches in places.
Lower chassis members look okay.
Rear sub floor, leading up over suspension is toasty in places :)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/imagejpg2_zps17ca863f.jpg)
Loving the rotisserie, I can roll it with one hand and get to either side easily.
Not looking forward to drilling out spot welds though :-\
Next time I do a car, it'll be a rotisserie job.
Starting drilling out spot welds in earnest.
Anybody have a recommendation for drill bits (type/brand) that won't go blunt straight away?
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/imagejpg1_zpsdc2473f7.jpg)
Am I right to think its smarter just to drill straight through both pieces of metal where possible, that way the new panel/piece doesn't need drilling and I can just rosette weld in the original hole... talking to myself it makes sense??
Cobalt / Carbide will last longer - use some lubricant and slower is better :) Are you using the spot weld drills ? they have a smaller pilot on the tip, then a wider flat edged area like a milling bit that cuts the spot weld - that way you end up with only a small hole on the back sheet. There's also some expensive ones that are like a mini-holesaw
Amazing work C !
(http://www.cj3apage.com/index/My_1950/body_work/DSC01978.JPG)
Quote from: Craig_m67 on May 30, 2014, 07:59:28 PM
Anybody have a recommendation for drill bits (type/brand) that won't go blunt straight away?
I can't see any trace of a cutting oil. Use some, even WD-40 is fine. Also, you need to go slow enough that you can feel the drill bit biting. It also takes a fair amount of pressure, don't be afraid to push too hard, as long as you're going slow. It's no use if it's just running in circles making heat and blunting itself. A sharp bit should last quite a long time if you don't abuse it.
Quote from: AikenDrum105 on May 30, 2014, 08:32:03 PM
Cobalt / Carbide will last longer - use some lubricant and slower is better :) Are you using the spot weld drills ? they have a smaller pilot on the tip, then a wider flat edged area like a milling bit that cuts the spot weld - that way you end up with only a small hole on the back sheet. There's also some expensive ones that are like a mini-holesaw
Amazing work C !
(http://www.cj3apage.com/index/My_1950/body_work/DSC01978.JPG)
Never had any luck with the mini holesaw ones - much better off learning to sharpen a normal 8mm sutton to work as per the spot weld drills - the extra length is very usefull too!
I wasn't using any lubricant. Didn't think about that at all.
Will have a look on the weekend when I get back to it.
Any type I should be looking for?
I have two spot weld bits I bought from RS but they need a pilot hole of sorts pre drilled otherwise they wander about. Easier just to use a std drill bit so far.
Found more rust (LH inner wheel well) too, yay!! :-\
A good hit with a sharp centrepunch usually gives the pilot something to hang onto.
I've seen someone using a grease stick to smear a weld before drilling it. But I'd just run the drill as slow as you can, keep a tin of WD40 or similar handy and give it a squirt now and then - it also helps keep the bit cool which will make it last longer.
I use a tin of sticky spray lubricant called Trefolex which works brilliantly for drilling and tapping.
This one http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TREFOLEX-CDT-SPRAY-300G-/230884331168?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item35c1c74ea0&_uhb=1 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TREFOLEX-CDT-SPRAY-300G-/230884331168?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item35c1c74ea0&_uhb=1)
most engineering supply stores would carry it, Blackwoods, Hare and Forbes, Bearing Supply stores etc.
I'll have another tin too, while you're at it ;)
Cheers Scott,
I've been centre punching, the two spot weld bits I have don't have nib or pilot.
I was running the drill flat out too, so obviously to fast
There's been several years (decades) since metalwork class in yr10 :)
Found some very ugly repairs today underneath more mastic/bitumen crap..not sure I want to post a pic. I suspect the other side is similar :-\
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/imagejpg1_zps2a7df096.jpg)
Mind you, once your in (it's fine) and all that .. no repo repairs panels for this bit I'm aware off. On a lighter note.. That undercoating stuff, once chipped off wipes away nicely with some 18mth cellared petrol. And for those of you playing at home it goes rust, creamy primer, red paint, under sealer .. So yes, was painted body colour underneath at the factory.
Quote from: Craig_m67 on June 02, 2014, 03:25:09 PM
I was running the drill flat out too, so obviously too fast
A drill is ground to have certain angles, and so when working right it'll cut maybe 0.2mm on each and every revolution. As soon as it stops cutting, it's just making heat instead. Learn to recognise the feel of when it's cutting (biting in) and when it's not, and simply
don't let it spin - make sure it always has enough force behind it to
cut instead. You should see nice spirals coming from both sides. If that requires too much force, it needs sharpening (that's something you can learn to do, too - I even do it by hand on a wheel).
That said, if you use a drill whose angles have been ground to be suitable for wood, or brass, you'll have a hard time with steel. You can usually re-grind them, but you have to know what to aim for. There is no one-size-fits-all.
Any cutting oil is better than none, and WD-40 not much worse than the purpose-made stuff. Just spray the target and/or the drill tip before each hole, and repeat if it's a deep hole.
Had a surge of motivation on the weekend, most of the passenger floor is now out, will clean it up later and trial fit new. Really hate undoing patches, on patches on rust on mastic
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/imagejpg1_zps0ea25903.jpg)
Awesome !
Some of those patches were lovingly applied... ;P
*L* made me laugh, cheers
it's all part of her history. Digging out the multiple layers of floor in the inner sills was the most challenging
Recv. a twinspark AFM to go with my ECU an loom today.
All i need now is wiring diagram and a test stand :)
For drilling out spot welds, you can make up a sheet metal drill or buy some stub drills or panel drills that panel beaters use, they are short little 'throw away' drills, Colin.
Quote from: colcol on August 18, 2014, 09:46:03 PM
For drilling out spot welds, you can make up a sheet metal drill or buy some stub drills or panel drills that panel beaters use, they are short little 'throw away' drills, Colin.
Learning to make a spot drill out of a normal drill is about 1000 times cheaper than the "throwaway" stub drills. You can sharpen a normal 8mm sutton in spot weld form about 30 or so times before it's as short as the brand new spot weld drills that cost the same...
Learning to make a sheet metal drill is a fine art, but when you do, they work like a treat and you only need to drill the top panel to make the weld separate and they don't distort the panel either, Colin.
It's not rocket science.
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQCy0pOVjQuFREpzl-Je_nSADYtOVTtCvn3DqxffFdJNZ1nxZqn)
(http://www.ullrich.com.au/fastenings/images/25_drill_sharpening1.jpg)
The sheet metal drill that i am talking about has a flat bottom and a spike or centre in the middle of the drill.
If you just use a flat bottom drill, there is nothing to steady it and it will just take off, when you start to drill, put a steady in the centre of the drill and it stabilizes it.
An old tradesman taught me how to grind one up years ago when i was an apprentice, great for drilling out spot welds, Colin.
Yep, that's exactly what I grind, it's very easy to grind the spike using the corner of the grinding wheel. Self taught from looking at one that I bought that tore a corner off on the 10th or 12th spot weld I drilled.
Bump?
I got distracted by... stuff
Did a bit of digging around in the Duetto sills and have decided to replace the middle (and outer) at the very least. It's probably just as easy to replace the inner (ie. all three) at the same time, never have to think about the construction again. Will see after Christmas.
Need to brace the car for significant surgery in anycase.
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/imagejpg1_zps942137c6.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/imagejpg1_zpsfdddc3e5.jpg)
Found a really rusty 6 or 7mm ring spanner, 25cents, a bunch of gum leaves and full dustpan of rust/dust in that sill. It's quite solid in the middle but front quarter is toasty.
We can play "spot the original" metal when I'm finished. Won't be that much :o
The outer sill was in better condition than the inner sill, note the perforations that the wire wheel very quickly uncovered. These cars rust from the inside out !!
This chassis has far to much rust to fix.
Kinda stopped work on the body as I want to replace the middle sills, which I don't have at the moment. In anycase I do have all the suspension gubbins so thought I'd make a start on that.
Rear trailing arms, original (Duetto) smaller front bush. Still a pig to remove however once I committed to the path of the metal saw and cold chisel it was all over very shortly.
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps3t40fcvb.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpszlr3ku5q.jpg)
Most of the easy paint removed (I can confirm plasticky satin chassis black original paint)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsfnsiqqc1.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsb2hawpj9.jpg)
Couple of coats of etch primer and then satin black epoxy. After all that hard work I'm not that impressed really. I could try 2pak gloss black or get it all powder coated (wonder how much that will cost), appreciate this is a can of worms so anybody got an opinion ?? :)
Changed the satin black for oven baked charcol metallic epoxy.
Looks great in the sun and doesn't chip or marr.
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/image.jpg1_zps1ontcevs.jpg)
Sills are in. Ordered Friday delivered Monday 7pm. Fantastic supplier !
Anything else now required is made of unobtanium and will have to be hand crafted by virgins (yes, it's been that long).
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/image.jpg1_zps3slq7tji.jpg)
It's bracing weather.. for sills.
90x8mm plate which will be bolted flat and tight to the car with 75x50x3mm wall RHS. Will do both sides and triangulate between them, perhaps drop some cross pieces to the floor rails.
There actually isn't that much holding the sills to the front of the car. The front inner side bulkhead that goes in tween the middle and inner rail is toast, as is the firewall where it connects to the sills. I'm surprised it hasn't come apart already. The back is suitably complicated being a Duetto with a double layer floor and some additional fillet bits that have all caught rust and need to come out. Hopefully the car won't fold in half, one side at a time.
Nothing welded or cut yet, still considering my bracing and perhaps welding in a jig for the inner sill height.
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/image.jpg1_zps4sjlwbos.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/image.jpg2_zpscxhoo4sk.jpg)
All comments (even in fun) welcome.
uprights look good, was that a home job or did you get it done professionally? did you consider powder coating?
Cheers Colin,
Home job, I was planning to get everything done in satin black powder coat and had started to clean up and wire wheel most of the bits so they could concentrate on the details when blasting, ended up having a play with some metallic charcol epoxy spray paint (wattyl Bunnings) and baked it in the oven for a bit ... It actually looks great and is super tuff. I did one of the rear control arms too but now wonder if it's all a bit to bling (I'm over thinking it like the bracing for the sills, just need to crack on).
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/image.jpg1_zps0mjb6ky5.jpg)
More baked goods
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/image.jpg2_zpsa3t5584d.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/image.jpg1_zpsyjzv2ub9.jpg) (http://s20.photobucket.com/user/craig_m5/media/image.jpg1_zpsyjzv2ub9.jpg.html)
original NOS (blasted and repainted black for protection) front inner chassis rail and outer chassis rail/skirt. The inner (smaller) piece is an original Duetto part (apparently). In any case I only need the curve at the front as mine is rusted out and bent From under the battery forward.
.... here endith my collection of NOS parts (and reproductions from ClassicAlfa) for every last bit of twisted or rusted metal on my Duetto. I think I'm up to 33pieces. Time to re assemble so I can rock her again like EZEE and Pancho..
Merry Christmas (yay!!)
Great to see progress Craig - don't lose sight of the end game !
Best of luck and I look forward to seeing this metalwork back on the car !
Great work Craig. Don't get too despondent, we had to make all new sills, front sill braces and floors, among other things, like repairing the boot floor, so we didn't lose the Pininfarina number near the latch for my 1965 Spider Veloce.
You're right, they rust from the inside and they are all rusty.
Holy thread resurrection Batman!
The pace is beginning to pick up, nothing like bringing in the professionals.
Car is jigged and square (within spec)
Rear (and front) clip have been removed to ensure all rust is attended to and new sills (all) are fitted and tied correctly to the body.
I'm glad we went to this extreme, even though there is nothing horrible in here we can at least blast, epoxy prime and seal everything before the outer goes back on again.
(which may mean i need to make a colour decision earlier than expected; current Misano Blue vs Farina Red)
All sills (inner, middle, and floors) go in over the next few weeks.
Then the front end gets rebuilt
..... it's only been seven years.
great to see some progress again.
Gee seeing her all naked so to speak, just emphasizes how complex that little body is!
Cheers,
Paul.
I'm blown away at how good this duetto is Craig-amazing for its age.Ive been watching with keen eyes
It's amazing how quickly things start going back together when you're using proper replacement panels as per factory construction, and not patching, on patches and frigging around. I will need to choose a colour in a few weeks as we will seal and paint the interior structure.. the current Alfa Misano blu is in the lead at the moment (apologies to any Stocknazis)
Quote from: Craig_m67 on March 21, 2018, 02:07:43 PM(apologies to any Stocknazis)
I think the term you might be looking for is "rivet counters".