You wouldn't believe it - I was just driving to officeworks here in the inner west of Sydney, driving past a classic car dealer who has some older Rolls, amercian muscle, older mercs etc...etc......., the place looked closed. I never usually give it a second glance but this time the rear roller door was open so I look in and spy a red 105 coupe! I stop, go in and sure enough there it is........a red coupe, rear boot lid says "1300gt junior", looks complete. Step nose, single headlight in a nice red (looks like original colour but defintiely a repaint) Apparently car has been sitting for 5-6 years and has no history.....Met the sales guy and mechanic who were surprised by my enthusiasm. They didn't know much about the car at all. It was being "preapred" for sale later next week.......
I cannot tell exactly what model it is (apart from the badge I mentioned of course) - I called my man Frank who will come down Tuesday to look at it but in the meantime thought I could do some research here first.
Was there a 1300GT Junior imported into Oz? if so what years? Does the car look original equipment wise judging from the few shots I have? I couldn't take that many photos and looks like I stuffed up the one with the model number it was 105.3#@ maybe.....? should there be a compliance plate? does that dash look like the right one?
thanks in advance...
Cheers
Emmanuel
two more photos
It's a series 2 GT Junior, from around 1969-70. Step nose with 14" wheels and 1750 style dashboard. At a glance this one looks correct, including the 2 spoke steering wheel.
In Australia we got this series Junior as a 1300 and the later series 3 Junior as a 1600. The series 3 had the later nose but in most respects was much the same as the series 2. We didn't get the last series of Juniors which are essentially a 2000 GTV but with small tail lights and no overriders on the bumpers. The series 3 and series 4 were sold in Europe as both a 1300 and a 1600.
thanks for the heads up.......I appreciate it.
EZ
The type badge says 105.31 (if I squint extra hard and call on my super-astigmatism powers). That matches up to a RHD GT 1300 Jr, as Alister has already said. Looks quite tidy in the photos, and step-noses are lovely! Good luck.
Thanks Evan,
Should the rear boot lid have a badge on it? This one doesn't......
damn long weekend means a three day wait before I can see it or do anything now!
Emmanuel
Only badge on the boot should be the script - no Alfa badge.
If you do buy it and want a good reference I can recommend "Alfa Romeo Guilia GT" , from the Cars That Made History series published by Giorgio Nada Editore in 1990-91. It contains quite a few good quality period photo's of most variants and has a section devoted to the Juniors.
We used one of these in club events for a couple of years starting in 1987. It was affectionately known as the Rocket because with a tired 1300 patently it was anything but. But it was fun and taught us alot at very little cost.
Emmanuel,
Fusi quotes the following chassis numbers for the 103.31 series (Giulia GT 1300 Junior RHD):
The numbers in brackets are those built in Milan and those exported ckd (completely knocked down) for assembly overseas - usually in South Africa as RHD exports.
1966 105.31.129.0001 to 105.31.129.0002 (1 built)
1967 105.31.129.0003 to 105.31.129.0655 (471+182 = 653)
1968 105.31.129.0656 to 105.31.129.1483 (607+221 = 828)
1969 105.31.129.1484 to 105.31.129.2303 (602+218 = 820)
1970 105.31.129.2304 to 105.31.129.3029 (486+240 = 726)
1971 105.31.129.5001 to 105.31.129.6184 (544+640 = 1184) Start of the last Series, smooth front models.
1972 105.31.129.6185 to 105.31.129.6524 (240+100 = 340)
Don't have any numbers after 1972, sorry.
My brother had a late model one years ago and from memory it was a fantastic little car - revved like crazy and went like stink (or so it seemed from the passengers seat ..)
Somewhere around here I might still have some literature - I'll have a look this afternoon.
Good luck and if it's a good one at a sensible price, go for it,
Chris
The brochure.
Chris
Thanks Chris,
You wouldn't happen to have a spare brochure you would like to sell? I am trying to collect memorabilia along the way to match the cars I own.
From all the advice that I have received in the last 24 hours, I have to chase this first thing Tuesday. Like I have said before, my man Frank will look at it to see if the engine is the original and if the body is ok. My gut feel is that if body is ok and the price is right I will buy it because I love the stepnose look (and plus it's my birthday on Thursday) if not original motor then less presure to keep it original land I can make it a useable car to add to my collection.
Cheers.
EZ
EZ
I bought a 1970 version of the 1300J around 1990 when I was teaching my first born to drive. My logic was; it was a fun car, very safe to drive , made all the right noises but was very safe. Anyway he loved driving it and so did I. So much so that I used it as my daily driver for a couple of years. I sold it for 50% more than I paid for it and it went to Japan where they were allowed to register classics but not ordinary old cars.
If you like it , buy it. I don't think you will be disappointed.
Cheers Dave
Quote from: EZEE on October 02, 2011, 06:39:03 PM
Thanks Chris,
You wouldn't happen to have a spare brochure you would like to sell? I am trying to collect memorabilia along the way to match the cars I own.
I only have the one and, like you, I also collect memorabilia. If you wish, I'll keep an eye out for you.
Let us know what the car is like and whether you eventually buy.
Chris
Should that motor have two valleys across the rocker cover for a crossover air intake to be a genuine engine?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Alfa-Romeo-Giulia-1300-GT-Junior-1967-69-UK-Brochure-/180666260931
Quote from: MD on October 02, 2011, 09:33:11 PM
Should that motor have two valleys across the rocker cover for a crossover air intake to be a genuine engine?
Fusi has a photo of the 1300 GTJ engine bay (p642) that looks the same as above except it's LHD. I can't see which series it is though.
For 1969 the engine numbers ranged from 00530.14573 to 00530.31086 (16513 engines)
and for 1970 they were 00530.31087 to 00530.50322 (19236 engines)
There were so many because they were shared between the 1300 GTJ and the 1300 Spider Junior in both LHD & RHD.
Promise I won't crossbid you for the eBay item listed above.
Chris
Heres another brochure from the same seller in case you miss out
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Alfa-Romeo-Giulia-1300-GT-Junior-1969-71-UK-Brochure-/180699146509?_trksid=m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DMRU-220%252BUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D180524780632%26ps%3D50
This one is the same as Chris has listed (smoothnose)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Alfa-Romeo-Giulia-1300-GT-Junior-1971-72-UK-Brochure-/170671116780?_trksid=p4340.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D15%26pmod%3D170685991887%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D3192493332216172694#ht_500wt_971
The model your looking at is rare and desirable (stepnose and 1750 dash). The series 3 (unofficially titled) smoothnose 1300 Junior made it here approx late 1970 and is also rare, similar interior 1750 dash and hupcaps as it's stepnose predecessor plus twin boosters. 1600 GT Junior arrived in 72 with 3 spoke steering wheel, headrests like its GTV bigger brother and 2 litre sombrero type centre caps.
I think the 1300 ended in 72 and 1600 in 74 and may not have been sold alongside each other here locally unlike Europe. Could be wrong though. We didn't get the later version as previously said
GT Juniors are fun and have their own appeal, due to the smaller capacity you tend to drive them harder and they're feisty .
If it looks good I say go for it
Cheers
Pep
Quote from: MD on October 02, 2011, 09:33:11 PM
Should that motor have two valleys across the rocker cover for a crossover air intake to be a genuine engine?
As far as I know, this late one should have the barrel type filter with the standard rocker cover. Earlier models might have had the crossover filter as the 1300 GTJ was released in 1966.
Attached is a pic from a 1968 model Series 1 with the crossover filter set up
Cheers
Pep
Good luck EZEE,
Also spotted this on ebay as a guide. However, this has been advertised for a while.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1968-Alfa-Romeo-GT-Junior-1300-Red-5sp-M-Coupe-/140597092214?pt=AU_Cars&hash=item20bc3d5f76
thanks to everyone.....tomorrow is the big day. From the advice received here so far unless there is something obviously wrong I am going for it.
Will keep you all posted...
Emmanuel
This was my brothers late model 1300GTJ - before and after .....
Chris
wow Chris, was he ok? looks like it was a while ago......
UPDATE: I think I secured the car today. Frank had a good look at it - he was happy enough, seems ok overall, far from perfect but solid, not entirely orginal either but a car I would be happy to own. A step nose in red that I could use every day so to speak!
So left a cash deposit with the dealer, shook hands and we all agreed the deal was done.
However turns out he had to "call the owner" and I can take possesion tomorrow. With luck it is all true (No offence but we are talking the proverbial "used car salesman" here, I can never really tell who is geniunely geniune!)
Once done I will take better pictures for everyone (and for my records)......
Cheers
Emmanuel
Hopefully it works out - if not, 20k will buy an ok example of a GT stepnose in many other states; it's always best not to rush and flights are cheap. Will be good to see better pics.
Quote from: EZEE on October 04, 2011, 10:25:31 PM
wow Chris, was he ok? looks like it was a while ago......
He was OK - just got a bit too overenthusiastic in a corner and lost control. The car flipped end over end and then rolled.
It was back in the mid-80s.
He now drives a VW Toureg.
Good luck with the purchase,
Chris
Gosh Chris, your brother was one seriously lucky guy to have survived that aweful crash. I guess when you see photos like that it makes you stop and realise just how quickly it can all be over. Sad to see what looked like a nice condition GT Junior meet its maker but better that than your brother.
All the best with the purchase Ezee, my brother has a Giulia 1300 TI sedan, (basically the same engine), and I remember going for drives in that car in the past. I always enjoyed it.
Hi Guys,
in case you wondered what has happened with the new Giulia GT 1300 after all the fuss I made when I was looking at buying it......I am in Perth for the week for a wedding so haven't seen it but I bought it in the end. Currently with Frank being looked over. Once I am back will post pix - again would like to thank all the positive help I received.
Cheers
Emmanuel
Update: GT 1300 Junior.
FINALLY got to see the new addition today after being interstate for over a week. I took 2 new shots on the iPhone - let me know if anyone is interested in anymore. I wont drag this thread much longer unless I do any work on the car but could I tap into the brains trust again?
I have no history or information so would like to determine the year if possible. I have the as VIN # AR1293439 and the Engine # as AR00526A*95738. Engine is definitely not original but anyway of knowing from what year it is? Does the VIN # tell us when it was built? I have double checked the engine number as I thought I read somewhere there were no letters in the engine numbers (does that even make sense?) but it definitely is an "A" not a "4". A little knowledge can be dangerous so am aware this may be a silly question. Also is it ok to post these details once we own these cars?
Thanks again to all helped with information.
Cheers
Emmanuel
I suggest you send the VIN and Engine # across to the Centro Documentazione at Alfa.
email address is: centrodocumentazione@alfaromeo.com
They'll tell you the exact build date, model, and original colour. Ask about the engine, they didn't record engine numbers against chassis numbers but should be able to tell you what year the engine was built.
I don't know of any reason not to post the numbers here.
Done - cheers Evan let's see what comes back.
EZ
If I recall Sydney at all, it's gone from the dealer on Parra Rd to just around the corner to the workshop on Old Canterbury rd? I think the guy still has it advertised online too. How does she look internally and underneath ?
Quote from: EZEE on October 20, 2011, 11:05:35 PM
Engine # as AR00526A*95738. Engine is definitely not original but anyway of knowing from what year it is? Does the VIN # tell us when it was built? I have double checked the engine number as I thought I read somewhere there were no letters in the engine numbers (does that even make sense?) but it definitely is an "A" not a "4".
Emmanuel,
The later 'pollution control' engines had letters in the engine number sequence. My car is a 1970 Series 2 1750GTV and the engine number is AR 00548 F 0177. The engine is original and the only concession to pollution control is the crankcase gas rebreather.
Chris
Centro Documentazione replied within 24hrs!
According to our documentation files, the chassis number AR 1293439 originally corresponds to an Alfa Romeo GT 1300 Junior RHD (105.31), engine series AR 00530, manufactured on the 26th September 1970 and sold on the 2nd October 1970 to Alfa Romeo Australia, Sydney. The body colour is indigo grey, with amaranth skai interiors.
Sounds lovely - anyone have any pics in their collection of this combination on any 105?
I stuffed the engine numbers up so have resent correct sequence now I hope.
Pancho I had a look underneath today but couldn't take any pix. Looks average to be honest, ok for a daily driver but past repairs weren't the best but will do for now. As for the dealer it was in Five Dock. Body isn't as good as it looks in the photos either but gee, a great shape just the same :) Have had brakes rebuilt already and getting it ready for rego. Gearbox isn't flash either apparently, I haven't driven it yet but it will need redoing.
Motto is: I have to learn to be patient, "always look underneath" and check the body thoroughly - and get experts to do it!
I am looking fwd to the Spettacolo!
Emmanuel
Indigo Grey (or Grigio Indaco): http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/car-restoration/3895-1972-alfa-romeo-color-chart-reference-materials-2.html#post33450
Amaranth skai (leather-like vinyl): http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/car-restoration/3895-1972-alfa-romeo-color-chart-reference-materials-7.html#post33524
That is one of the nicest combos of colour I know - I love silver/grey with red interior.
(http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/attachments/anything-about-alfa-romeos-alfabb-com/9396d1098289483-elvira-front-left-1.jpg)
Not that there's anything wrong with Alfa Red!
Very very interesting that it's a stepnose made in Sept 70, from what I have read the scalino stopped in late 68, early 69.
Last week I saw a 64 GT with a 1750 nose, post factory though.
Quote from: pancho on October 22, 2011, 12:11:19 AM
Very very interesting that it's a stepnose made in Sept 70, from what I have read the scalino stopped in late 68, early 69.
My best googling says that the stepnose 1300 Junior continued through 1970. Changed to the the smooth-nose sometime late 1970 or early 1971.
Well I am glad it is a step nose "officially".........I think I will keep looking for a more longer term example for the collection, this one wont be worth bringing back to original colour combo I don't think but who knows with time.......
Is it fair to say that many (not all) of the cars that have survived here have somehow managed to be more popular colours or became that way via colour changes? It isn't often you see the more obscure colours around (that is open to interpretation I know) but anecdotedly you see more white, red, blue, silver cars....have I missed any?
I just am interested in solving the engine puzzle now, ALFA says ......."AR 00526 is the 1600 cc of Giulia series (Giulia Super...)...." ........just to know when it was built but I guess that doesn't matter too much....
On another note - is there a strong 105 contigent at the Spettacolo usually?
EZ
QuoteIs it fair to say that many (not all) of the cars that have survived here have somehow managed to be more popular colours or became that way via colour changes? It isn't often you see the more obscure colours around (that is open to interpretation I know) but anecdotedly you see more white, red, blue, silver cars....have I missed any?
This is a beautiful colour combination. I saw a 69gt at Goodwood a few years ago in this exact colour combination and was very taken back. IMO Indigo grey and similar derivatives look fantastic on classic cars. Whilst it is hard to beat Red on any Alfa as an all time classic colour, I suspect some of the more 'obscure' colours will make a comeback and perhaps be quite sort after for there rarity. Giallo Ochra (mustard yellow) seems to be back in vogue at the moment.
Quote from: EZEE on October 22, 2011, 09:27:06 AM
On another note - is there a strong 105 contigent at the Spettacolo usually?
Yes there's always a large group of 105 coupes, spiders, and sedans at Spettacolo. I imagine it's the same at the NSW Concorso, and at Auto Italia in Canberra.
Quote from: pancho on October 22, 2011, 12:11:19 AM
Very very interesting that it's a stepnose made in Sept 70, from what I have read the scalino stopped in late 68, early 69.
Last week I saw a 64 GT with a 1750 nose, post factory though.
The stepnose 1300 GT Junior continued through to 1971 when it was replaced by the smooth nose 1300/1600 GT Junior, paralleling the change from 1750 GTV to 2000 GTV.
A couple of pictures from the original sales brochure for this particular model.
Thanks for those photo's Alister. As a 15 y.o in 1970 I remember a friend getting a brand new 1300 junior (I can still recall the rego number KRG 465) from the Alfa dealer, Henley's in Camberwell, . I was still on a push bike, but I said to myself "self " one day you will have one of those. I never ended up with a junior and i had to wait 5 years to get my first Alfa, a series 2 1750 but i was hooked for life. I've always had at least one Alfa in the drive way ever since.
Cool brochure pics, I didnt know the Jnr came with rubber floor mats, not carpet. Interesting to see the steering wheel, I remember a thread on the BB where there was a debate on which way the 2 spoke wheel should be mounted.
One of the books I have suggests that they also came standard with some sort of shelf in the back and that the back seat was an option. Personally I've never seen that and you'd have to wonder it that was a bright idea that never ended up happening.
But don't the standard seats look good?
Quote from: EZEE on October 22, 2011, 09:27:06 AM
Well I am glad it is a step nose "officially".........I think I will keep looking for a more longer term example for the collection, this one wont be worth bringing back to original colour combo I don't think but who knows with time.......
Is it fair to say that many (not all) of the cars that have survived here have somehow managed to be more popular colours or became that way via colour changes? It isn't often you see the more obscure colours around (that is open to interpretation I know) but anecdotedly you see more white, red, blue, silver cars....have I missed any?
I remember seeing a very original Indigo Grey 2000 GTV with light tan interior many years ago. I thought it looked quite distinctive, but I would also say I was in the minority. I also remember a 2000 GTV in Quarry Beige, which was an interesting colour, better suited to a Guilia Super, I feel.
The reality when it comes to Alfa sports cars is that Alfa Rosso usually wins out over original obscure colours, especially when it comes the time to sell.
I'm lucky that my 2000 GTV is Azzurro Le Mans, a colour that I was told way back was rare, but in reality probably isn't that rare. I suspect most people like the colour and don't change it into Alfa Rosso...
One of the rarer 105 colours is Periwinkle Blue Metallic - popular on Alfettas (like my GT...) but unusual on Australian GTVs. I know of only one 105 GTV that colour.
Quote from: Evan Bottcher on October 22, 2011, 08:40:52 AM
Quote from: pancho on October 22, 2011, 12:11:19 AM
Very very interesting that it's a stepnose made in Sept 70, from what I have read the scalino stopped in late 68, early 69.
My best googling says that the stepnose 1300 Junior continued through 1970. Changed to the the smooth-nose sometime late 1970 or early 1971.
You're right abotu sometime in 1970 Evan -this must make this shell one of the last built.
quote from Wikipedia Alfa 105 series Coupes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfa_Romeo_105/115_Series_Coup%C3%A9s
"In 1970 the Junior was revised a second time, and received the same nose treatment as the 1750 GTV, without the step but with only two headlights."
A most interesting discussion. Re colours I too like the more obscure '50s and '60s colours rather than re-sale red, hence my white 1750 GTV won't be repainted red, and while superb white ones do look good, I am more likely to go for a shade of blue (perhaps Bluette, Blu Hollandese ?) but which specifically I am undecided. My brother in law used to have a stepnose 1600 Sprint Veloce and it was in a soft pale blue, while his '70 or '71 Super is in beige. Not that I am a fan of beige. I remember seeing many years ago a 1600 TI Giulia sedan in Bluette which looked good.
As for rubber floor mats, on the GT Junior yes that was quite correct, as it was also the case in the 1300 TI Giulia sedan, of which my brother has a '70 model.
Re the Periwinkle blue, a friend down here in Hobart has a 2L Berlina in this colour and it really suits the shape well. I am pretty sure there is a 2L 105 GTV down here also in that colour, while there have been a couple of Le Mans blue 105 Alfas down here as well (Berlinas, and GTVs). Pine green is also a colour which can work well on a 105.
Quote from: Paul Newby on October 25, 2011, 12:23:51 PM
I'm lucky that my 2000 GTV is Azzurro Le Mans, a colour that I was told way back was rare, but in reality probably isn't that rare. I suspect most people like the colour and don't change it into Alfa Rosso...
Mine is as well Paul. I've had two that colour over the years and I agree; it's not particularly rare. Still, it's period and one of my favourite colours for a GTV.