Hi all. I am in the process of shopping around for a new family car to replace our Very reliable but aging Mazda 6 Wagon. The family car is driven by my wife 90% of the time and we have 2 children added 3 and 5 therefore are still in baby and booster seats.
As we don't need to lug around a large pram anymore we decided that we were comfortable replacing the Mazda with a vehicle that is no bigger that our current car.
With this decision made, I was very excited when the Giulietta was released and rushed across to our local dealer to try one on for size. Unfortunately the rear passenger room was just way too tight to accommodate children in baby and booster seats.
I am trying to mount a case with my wife that the 159 sedans or wagon (without sunroof as this kills the head room in the rear) is well worth a look. I am satisfied from all the read reviews that a 159 should offer the reliability we are after but I am interested in hearing from any 159 owners about their experiences in using a 159 as a family car. Is there sufficient room in the rear for children still in seats?
Also thoughts on a 2.2L petrol Vs 1.9 or 2.4L diesel.
Thanks in advance.
HI, we've got our 159 wagon, started with children aged 2 and 4, served us well for 4 years. As long as you put up with kids putting dirty feet on back of your seat :-) Lucky leather wipes clean. (keep a container of Meguiar's leather wipes in the car) Have had two seats in there, just means only a real skinny person (ie supermodel) can sit in between them. Now only have seat in there for our 6 year old, and can fit another adult in the back with our two girls. I was going to upgrade to the Giulietta as our girls can now fit in the back, but won't until I sell our wagon, which is on carsales. Ours is a petrol 2.2 and has been fine, can't comment on the diesel as I have no personal knowledge. We didn't buy the sedan back then because the pram wouldn't drop straight into the boot, where it did in the wagon.
Thanks Joe, that's encouraging. Our kids currently boot the back of my seat and for this reason we have a no shoe policy in the car. I guess the intensity of the kick might get a little stronger.
I like the idea of a super model sitting in the small amount of seat available in the middle. This would certainly eliminate any chance of a third child!
Your wagon looks great........unfortunately my wife will only drive an automatic which limits our choice somewhat.
you might have to go for a selespeed which she can drive in city mode. Oh, don't worry about a third child, there is no way a 3rd seat would fit. Although, there are always the roof racks :)
We've had a second-hand 159 2.4 JTDm sedan since December. Jack (8yo) still kicks the back of the seat a lot but it stays pretty clean. I don't think he'll be sitting back there on long distances when he's fifteen - despite it being a bigger car I don't think there's more space than the 156 we had before. The boot space and split-fold rear seats are great.
The 2.4 diesel is a winner for us - 400Nm of torque means acceleration is very brisk despite the heavy car, highway motoring at 100km is very pleasant, overtaking easy. It's surprisingly noisy from the outside, especially on startup, but it doesn't penetrate the cabin badly. There's a little lag, but mostly if you try to boot it from under 1800rpm. Over 2000rpm there very little turbo lag.
I haven't driven the 2.2 or 1.9 diesel, but I have the impression that the 1.9 is a bit underpowered for the weight of the car and turbo lag is severe.
Oh - our car is a six speed manual, I haven't driven the auto.
Hi twistybits. We've owned a 159 Sportwagon 2.2 for the past 6 months and my wife is very happy with it. We've got two child seats for a 2 and 4 year old. For the occasional 3rd adult, I move one of the carseats in the middle which is almost bearable. Because of the roof reading lights positioned in the middle, there is no adult headroom in the rear centre seat. I've placed a towel under the child seats as I found in the 156 that a mixture of rice crackers and water quickly turns to cement and is impossible to get out of the leather. This has worked quite well.
Regarding the 2.2 engine, we've found that it is a great motor for city driving (and the wife's driving style) as it has very nice low-down torque, although the top-end is a little disappointing from my perspective. The motor is very efficient on the highway cycle but thirsty in the city, especially when the engine is cold.
A few negatives of the 159 for us are the large front pillars which serious reduce your visibility when turning corners, the low hissing from the motor at freeway speeds (I gather from the direct injection - Joe have you experienced this in yours?), the complexity of the controls on the binnacle (still haven't worked out all the wiper options), and the interior space is not a pinch on a Ford Mondeo wagon (but who cares right?).
The positives are for style and comfort it wins hands-down, the front seats are massively more comfortable than the 156, the red leather is to die for, the car feels very solid and safe. A German magazine (Auto, Motor & Sport) rated the 159 as one of the safest cars around. Test on the skid pan are impressive http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zON4bWsl2Ek&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zON4bWsl2Ek&feature=related). Handling at high speed really impressed me recently where the car really came alive.
If the model you want is available with the 1750TBi engine, that should be worth considering instead of the 2.2. But I guess it depends what you consider to be adequate 'performance'.
My wife also drives our 159SW Ti 3.2 90% of the time. I know she's a bit embarassed driving such a flashy car (Alfa Red of course!), but she seems to enjoy it mostly. We have a 5 monther, so still in a rear-facing seat/capsule, different to your needs. But in general, I think the car is great, although not huge, and we quickly run out of rear boot space and resort to loading up the back seats.
:)
2.2 JTS selespeed here, no reliability issues so far. Just as well it has city mode, as I suffered a bike accident and at the moment can only drive with one hand and the other holding the bottom of the wheel steady...
Can't say much re wagon, but from the performance perspective it's great up until you hit 100kph, and it gets a little sluggish from there unless you're the only person in the car. You'll also suffer uphill with a full load of adults, but again it's not a V8. If you are considering selespeed, you'll need to accept that it's a manual car with an automatic clutch, and not like an automatic gearbox with an (almost instantaneous) tiptronic shift. Drive it and you'll see what I mean re shift speed, if you haven't done so already.
Handling is great, especially at speed.
Space comes at a premium if you've got tall front seat passengers, but it's no worse than most other cars in the class.
ok, if you want an auto, i highly suggest picking up the 2.4 diesel if you can. standard torque converter planetary gear auto which is a perfectly good unit - and a stonking engine with gobs of torque...
this is important as the 159 is not a small nor light car... the 2.2l i feel is deficient when i drive it, and not a great match w/ the selespeed.
I guess try before you buy is a given - but since you seem to be looking at new cars, the 2.2 as i understand it is dead. the new 1750cc turbo petrol seems the goods with more power and torque, and being a fiat unit, should have some character to it... but I haven't driven it .... yet... :D
How did you go with the purchase of your new 159? My wife and I have both the current Mazda 6 luxury Sports and a 2007 159Ti. Our 7 and 9 year olds prefer the Mazda for comfort in the rear. I'm 6'3 so anyone sitting behind me has to be of praying mantis stature, or else its my skinny & whinging 7 year old that keeps saying, "Why cant we go in the Mazda, Dad?". The Mazda is by far cheaper to buy @ $46K driveaway, bigger interior, better paintwork, more storage capacity, awesome customer service (thanks Kevin at Berwick Mazda), cheaper to service & insure, has much better resale value, and 10x more reliable. We have already had 2 timing chains replaced (after noting sluggishness) - luckily both during warranty cover. However, hands down, the Alfa is the more exotic creature of the two (bigger headturner). You be the judge.
Head bowing low I say with the faintest and slightly ashamed voice that we went back for another Mazda 6 wagon (Touring with all the bells and whistles).
Whilst we both agreed the 159 Wagon was the better looking vehicle it just didn't tick enough boxes for my wife (who after all will be driving it everyday). We explored the Renault Laguna, Citroen C5 and a Scoda and the Mazda came up trumps. They are pretty hard to knock.
Quote from: sedlar on August 26, 2011, 10:48:25 PM
We have already had 2 timing chains replaced (after noting sluggishness)
Hi Sedlar. How was this diagnosed to a stretched chain? You've got me wondering about my 159 now with sluggishness...
When your timing chain stretches, the cam timing goes out and triggers an alarm, and the car usually goes into limp mode, with a timing belt, you have to replace it more often, but every time you do, the timing is spot on again, and it is cheaper and easier to replace a timing belt, because it is designed that way, with timing chains they are less easy to change but more durable, swings and roundabouts, Colin.
Quote from: colcol on September 08, 2011, 08:48:47 PM
When your timing chain stretches, the cam timing goes out and triggers an alarm
Colin, the camshaft drive has a facility to take up the slack should the chain stretch, keeping the timing in check. I imagine it would need to stretch an awful lot before the engine timing would be affected.
Its mostly on the V-6 which has a longer run, i first heard of this problem with a work mates brother VE Calais with the variable cam timing, it less likely on motors without the variable cam timing though, don't know much about the Family 2 'Camira' motors though, have not heard its a problem on twin sparks and JTS's, but their timing goes back to being spot on every 50,000ks or 3 years, or when you change the timing belts, Colin.
hi twistybits,
my mazda rx8 fell on its sword when our twins arrived (no boot space) making way for the 2010 159TBi Ti. i had the same dilemma but decided i wouldn't be caught dead driving a commodore or suv. my twins are 2 years old and their seats fit nicely in the back and are very easy to install and remove (a tip here is get a baby seat with the european isofix system) plenty of room, but like an earlier post mentioned their feet do rub the front seats. boot space is great, can easily fit the pram and other supplies. probably would have opted for the wagon if i had my time over.
highly recommend the 1.75L turbo, great performance, not quite the rx8 but a satisfying compromise.
Quote from: bix on August 31, 2011, 09:04:37 PM
Quote from: sedlar on August 26, 2011, 10:48:25 PM
We have already had 2 timing chains replaced (after noting sluggishness)
Hi Sedlar. How was this diagnosed to a stretched chain? You've got me wondering about my 159 now with sluggishness...
Apparently, the diagnostics computer had found the fault, which was noted as "stretched". The second time it was replaced was due to an inaccurate service instruction whereby the tensioner was not replaced at the same time the chain was - hence the problem 'reappeared'. I was without the car for a good three days each time! All is fine now though, except the tram railing is really starting to bother me. It is such a task to drive at times, having to correct the sudden jerks to this side and that.
In addition, I had three mechanics drive the car until one agreed it was sluggish and unresponsive. Then did the diagnostic test and found the timing chain out of whack! :-\
When you said the timing chain was out of whack, did you mean it had jumped a tooth or had it stretched and now the the timing is out or maybe the tensioner is worn out and is not tensioning properly, Colin.
Instead if starting a new thread I thought Id ask the questions here...
We have 3 kids...4, 2 and 1 month, so that means three baby seats. Will the 159 handle this?
We will be looking at a 2.4 TDi, manual, anything to look for in particular? What kind of consumption should we expect?
Im also worried about servicing and parts, is the 159 more "common" that previous Alfas..any issues there?
We have managed with a Mk5 VW Golf before the the seats fit..but getting the the middle one is a bit of a hassle. I have seen one for sale that mentioned they have two kids with another on the way and our looking at upgrading, which had me worried for second row space.
As they are all young I am not worried about leg room, more shoulder..anyone know the dimensions? Thanks.
It will depends on the width of your child seats and capsule.
The width of the rear seat isn't too bad, but having child seats and capsule side-side will be a squeeze unless they are slim versions.
Not a great deal of legroom in the back. We could only (practically) fit the capsule and rear-facing seat in the centre of the car. If you fit these behind one of the front seats, the front seat will need to be moved a fair way forwards and/or sit the back squab very upright; this will not be comfortable for an adult unless short or on short trips only.
:)
Agree, we had two toddler seats in the back, and there is no way a third seat would fit in between them. A small kid could sit between the seats, but it was squeezy, and none of your kids are old enough to not be in a booster.
I have an ISOFIX baby seat in my 159 and the leg room for the front passenger is fine. You wouldn't get 3 of these across the rear seat of a 159.
i am actually in the process of selling my gorgeous 147 in favour of a boring soccer-mum SUV which will be more practical for our new baby.
I could think about an Alfa wagon but I dont want to be worried every time the baby spews or drops their food all over the seats....which I would if i owned another Alfa.
Instead I will be a little 33 as a run around to have some fun with.