Hello
I am looking at purchasing a 2006 147 GTA, Manual, No Q2 with 50,000Km on the clock. Assuming no issues with service/general history, what should I be looking for when I inspect and test drive the car?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated
Cheers
Michael
Hi Michael,
According to EVO magazine (issue 107):
1. Make sure the service history is in order
2. Original water pump is an issue and should have been changed from plastic impellor to a metal one. (replacing one means removal of belts, tensioner and two idle pulleys so probably not cheap)
3. Cambelt should have been replaced by a dealer/alfa specialist due to special tools needed to do the work
4. Mass airflow meters need to be changed around 110000kms (can cause engine flat spots and poor idling)
5. Oil filters are difficult to get to and often neglected causing main bearing failures (oil should be 10w60)
6. Diffs are known to overheat - hence the Q2 diff option
7. Clutches should last 110000ks (tell tale sign is the clutch gets heavy)
8. keep away from Selespeed (although rare)
9. Knocking and creaking behind the dash is said to be the front anti-roll bar sliding due to worn bushes
10. 147 power steering pipes can corrode around the clips
11. The original 305mm brake rotors (pre December 2003) are known to warp - particularly from track use
12. Bonnet catches have been known to fail from the release mechanism not being greased
13. The body kits have unique wings, quarter panels and bumpers and can be awkward to repair so check them all
"Both [156 and 147] offer a wealth of thrills and sensations from behind the wheel..."
I love these cars. Good luck in your search!
Engines are very reliable (provided they have been following the proper service intervals)
Hello Michael, make sure it has a good service history, and has all the correct service items done and was serviced by a Alfa Romeo service agent or an Alfa Romeo independant service specialist who knows these cars, the main thing to look for are cam belt changes, if i remember correctly it is 3 years OR 60,000kls, whichever comes first, if these are not attended to, a damaged motor will result from cam belt breakage, if you can have a talk to the place that previously serviced the car and ask if there are any issues, but for peace of mind have it checked out by one of our sponsors on the Alfa Club web site, our club members use them as they know Alfa Romeos, the water pumps on V-6's had plastic impellars and they split and spin on the shaft on the freeway, causing the motor to boil, these are replaced at a cam belt change, make sure the oil has been changed when required and it is the correct type, if yours hasn't got a Q-2 limited slip diff, then get one, as the original diffs in GTA's were a weak point and diffs have been known to break when backing out of a driveway in the morning, and when it breaks it takes the gearbox case with it, ouch!, the front suspension had issues, so check out the top and bottom control arm bushes, the sway bar bushes and the rose joints on the end of the sway bar,these will cause an annoying rattle and of course check for accident damage such as misaligned panels ripples in the body work, paint colour mismatches and overspray, etc, and for Alfa Club members in Victoria there is a 147-156-166-spider-gtv-932 series workshop night at Maranello Pur Sang Motors on Friday 27th May, bookings phone 0407 090 826 or email drtool@bigpond.co.au, Colin.
Ha ha, jinxed ya colcol :D
Cambelt is 3 yrs or 60K km, whichever is sooner. Just to clarify. ;)
As suggested, water pump can be changed to metal impeller version when the cambelt is done. It should then last the lifetime of ownership.
Check that the 'water temp' sits at 90 degrees when the car is warmed up, give/take 5 degrees. Definitely shouldn't be below 80 degrees (or a lot higher than 90); this suggests a problem with the cooling system, though not necessarily expensive. Usually a faulty thermostat, but could be water pump failure too. If temp doesn't reach the ideal operating temperature, the ECU can retard performance (eg: run excessively rich fuel mix); no big deal, but can waste fuel and you won't have full potential of the engine.
Check interior wear and tear:
*inside grab handles on doors, window switch pad, steering wheel, steering wheel stereo controls
*driver seat leather wear
*climate control dials: 'well used' can lead to them losing the normal 'notched'/detented rotation, and they become free-spinning
I suppose it depends what you're willing to accept, and how good a car you want.
:)
AFAIK, the actual ALFA recall notice was this:
IMPORTANT NOTICE FROM ALFA ROMEO
As of 13/11/2006 the official service interval on cambelts on 1.6l, 1.8l, 2.0l Twin Spark engines and 2.0l JTS engines in all models of all ages has been reduced to 36,000 miles or 3 years (whichever is the soonest).
the revision down from 5/100k to 3/60k affects only the fiat 4s...
the arese v6 is a completely different tensioner/cambelt design.... infact 99/100 the only thing that fails on the v6 is the tensioner... keep an eye on it, and it should be right (tension is set by its mounting screws! so you can imagine how the belt may come loose! but sometimes it shits itself)
the v6 is still recommended at the original 5/100k - but yes - they have failed and being even moe expensive to fix - better sooner rather than later...
This may be a simple reply, but after you have given the car a test drive and checked the books, make sure that you/they take it for a prepurchase inspection at an Alfa Specialist - could be a dealer or a workshop.
the $100 or so dollars is money well spent and they know what to look for and the info can be part of your final negotiation.
The belt replacement is definately the big ticket item. Make sure it has already been done. I stretched mine to 4 years but I was very nervous towards the end.
Also, the Q2 is an amazing upgrade. Makes the car handle perfectly (almost) and the rumoured being bullet proof over the stock diff is reassuring. I love mine - with the dollar where it is at the moment bring it in yourself from EB spares in the UK and get it fitted ASAP.
About the only thing that I've worn out so far is the driver side floormat. Currently on my third revision. They are thin and wear quickly and cost a mint. I've just had a heal mat fitted over the original and hope to get longer out of it now.
You will enjoy the car. ;D
yea.... q2, like so... 8)
I can't thank you all enough for the great advice! :)
I will have plenty to look for when I inspect the car and will probably have to print out this page just so I don't forget anything!
The owner returns from overseas in two weeks so I will be sure to post and update.
I will definately have a Q2 diff installed sooner rather than later as I don't want to get stuck in a busy car park when the standard item blows up...or end up on the wrong side of a narrow mountain road when I plant it :-\
Thanks again everyone! ;D
Quote from: wankski on March 29, 2011, 11:00:12 AMthe v6 is still recommended at the original 5/100k
^^^ This goes against what I've been told. ??? If you've been told that from an Alfa Dealer, fair enough. What is 'printed' in manuals and stuff can of course be outdated.
I have always been under the impression from my dealer, and from UK forums, that 3yrs/60K applies to the 24V Arese V6.
:)
yeah, shiny - it's still good advice and I won't wait that long on my 6, but the offical dealer notice was the 4s only...
with any belt system, better safe than sorry...
that said, the v6 belt is totally different from the 4 and does not have the waterpump driven by the cam belt (stupid!) and the belt is pretty big and does not have the same radius bend thanks to the 60 degree V...
the main issue on the v6 timing system is the tensioner...
And with ALL timing belts excessive city idling, where you dont go far but your motor turns over a lot and wears out the belt, dusty conditions where dust and sand wear the belt out and hot weather will cause the belt to dry out and loose its elasticity, this is why some cars have timing belts fail before the recommended change of the timing belt, on the twin sparks and JTS's the water pump is actually used as a tensioner, so instead of a tensioner robbing power from the engine, a water pump is multi tasking, tensioning the belt AND driving water thru the block, this is one of the reasons modern engines are good on fuel and develop good power, because friction is reduced, thats the good news, the bad news is the water pump is buried behind the timing belt and to change the water pump, would cost you as much as a timing belt replacement, because you have to remove the timing belt to remove the waterpump!, so every second time you do the timing belt service, change the water pump, that is minimum 100,000kls or every 6 years, or whichever comes first, and if you have a worn water pump, then the worn bearing in the pump will cause the belt to run at a angle, or if the water pump starts to leak coolant onto the belt, then the coolant will cause rapid destruction of the belt, causing engine failure, Colin.
^^ +1000. exactly. only can add that coolant is real slippery, so that def does not help.... belts can break but more often slip teeth...
Quote from: colcol on March 31, 2011, 08:43:58 PM
on the twin sparks and JTS's the water pump is actually used as a tensioner.
Err.... who told you that? Yes, the water pump is driven by the cambelt on those engines, but it is certainly NOT a tensioner. The tensioner is a seperate component.
i think he meant pulley? i kinda know what he means tho, its wedged b/w the tensioner and the inlet cam sprocket... it is indeed responsible for the large flexure in the 4cyl cam belt... so when leaky leaks right on top of the tensioner...
On the inlet cam on the left side, the tensioner is under the camshaft so that the belt wraps around the inlet sprocket, this 'tensioner' is the waterpump, the tensioner on the right side is under the exhaust cam, so that the belt wraps around the sprocket of the exhaust cam, this is just a normal tensioner that doesn't multifunction, and yes a leaky waterpump would cause the belt to slip a cog or two, introducing mr valve to Ms Piston, causing ruined motor, hope that clears it up, Colin.
the tensioner is directly under the waterpump (both of which under the inlet cam), the other thing to the right of that is an idle pulley.
Correct!, in my workshop manuals, the water pump, under the inlet cam and the idler under the exhaust cam can be refered to as tensioners, idlers, followers and pulleys, the tensioner under the water pump is refered to as a AUTOMATIC tensioner that varies the tension on the cam belt pulley by having a spring in it so as the engine heats up and the cam bely stretches over time and the pulleys wear out the tension has to be varied otherwise, too loose and the cam belt slips and too tight and the cam belt would be noisy and would break early on in its life, the automatic tensioners were the ones that caused so much grief for Alfa Romeo, they were plastic and brittle, they would shatter causing the belt to slip, but apparantly is was a big problem in cold climates as the plastic was more brittle when cold and in Sweden for example they used to break on start up, early on Alfa Romeo replaced these with steel material on the cog, Colin.
true enough.... it's certainly not a fixed tensioner! you can only set it against the mark at TDC.... in operation the thing bounces around like a madman!
The waterpump pulley as mentioned causes maximal wrapping of the belt against the inlet cam, so it definitely keeps the belt routed and taut.... the other thing to the right (exhaust) i refer to as an idle pulley cos it really does nothing other than push the belt closer to normal (as in vertical) back to the crank sprocket and moves it away from the timing belt guard.... that said, i guess it does also exert force on the belt and keep it taut against the crank...
good show colin!
umm, no fair! what factory manual do you have for the 156??
I have 3 manuals on cd for 156's, they were puchased on the net, 2 from England, 1 from Queensland, and they are all the same!, they are a genuine factory rip offs, as they have the factory logo's and part no's , i had plans to put them onto paper and have a hard copy of all the repairs i will ever need, but it would take forever, so now i only print off what i need to fix, poor old windows don't have a facility for printing whats on the screen, so i use a Gadwin print screen program so i can bring it up on the screen, and press Prt Scr [print screen], and it goes straight to the printer, not a perfect situation, but the best i can manage, Colin.
Quote from: colcol on April 01, 2011, 08:36:52 PM
Correct!, in my workshop manuals, the water pump, under the inlet cam and the idler under the exhaust cam can be refered to as tensioners, idlers, followers and pulleys, the tensioner under the water pump is refered to as a AUTOMATIC tensioner that varies the tension on the cam belt pulley by having a spring in it so as the engine heats up and the cam bely stretches over time and the pulleys wear out the tension has to be varied otherwise, too loose and the cam belt slips and too tight and the cam belt would be noisy and would break early on in its life,
By that logic, the cam gears and crank gears are also tensioners. After all, if they weren't there, the belt would be pretty loose, wouldn't it. Pray tell, how do you adjust your water pump to re-tension the cam belt?
Quote from: wankski on April 02, 2011, 11:50:29 AM
true enough.... it's certainly not a fixed tensioner! you can only set it against the mark at TDC.... in operation the thing bounces around like a madman!
That's because belts flap on their undriven side, which is part of the point of the tensioner - to dampen the flapping of the belt and keep the variance in tension to a minimum. The other point of a tensioner is to allow adjustment of the belt tension by physically moving it in relation to the others, particularly when installing a new belt. Which is why it has slotted mounting holes, unlike the waterpump.
Quote from: wankski on April 02, 2011, 11:50:29 AM
the other thing to the right (exhaust) i refer to as an idle pulley cos it really does nothing other than push the belt closer to normal (as in vertical) back to the crank sprocket and moves it away from the timing belt guard....
Well, actually the idler on that side does wrap the belt further around the exhaust cam gear... Which again, is the point of an idler pulley - to allow routing of a belt in such a way that you can achieve the best amount of contact around the pulleys around it.
If you must call the damn water pump something other than a water pump strategically placed to optimise belt layout, call it an idler pulley. Not exactly accurate given that it's driving the waterpump, but a lot more accurate than calling it a tensioner.
At this point, I'm just waiting for someone to get their cambelt changed at a workshop, be told the tensioner will be changed and assume that this means the waterpump is being changed (due to Colin insisting that the waterpump is the tensioner). Then have a waterpump leak start 3 weeks later, and ask why they have to pay to have the cambelt removed again (shouldn't it be under warranty if it was just replaced?)...
I know what he's on about, Wankski gets what he's on about, but many of the people who read these forums looking for advice may not have much, if any mechanical understanding at all, and to call the waterpump a tensioner will drastically confuse this issue for them. THAT is the main reason I'm bothering to argue this point, aside from the fact I disagree with a fixed pulley of any kind being called a tensioner.
And finally, why the hell is this discussion on the mechanical layout and faults of a 4 cylinder cam belt being brought up at all in a thread about buying a V6 powered alfa? Again, confusing the issue for those with less understanding of all matters Alfa.
Quote from: Jekyll and Hyde on April 02, 2011, 01:32:17 PM
And finally, why the hell is this discussion on the mechanical layout and faults of a 4 cylinder cam belt being brought up at all in a thread about buying a V6 powered alfa? Again, confusing the issue for those with less understanding of all matters Alfa.
Haha not a problem, I'm glad that we're all on the same page :)
The water pump is a water pump and is called a water pump cause it pumps water, but it also acts as a idler, guide, pulley, and it should be changed every second cam belt change, ie 100,000klms or 6 years, whichever comes first, if it leaks 3 weeks after a cambelt change, then thats the owners fault for not changing at the due date, you can hardly claim a warranty claim on the mechanic, if the owner didn't change it, over the years my various manuals have called tensioners all different things, it does not matter what you call it, as long as you know what it is, one of my English manuals has a translation for all the names of different parts from all over the world, no wonder we get confused, i hope that clears it up, Colin.
oh, and i found a manual that called a idler\pulley\tensioner\follower a jockey wheel!, and then called a constant velocity joint a Homo Rzeppa joint, for once i am speechless, Colin.
hehe, and I thought we went off topic on ausalfa.com . . . :o
I wonder how many responses on this thread are from people who have actually owned a GTA . . ::)
versus the self indulgent "I have access to an online manual and theoretically I know more than someone else mentality" . . .
I have never owned a 147 GTA, TOO much power for me, but being a club member for 25 years you do pick up snippets of information, and for what its worth, you pass it onto other owners, i don't have a online manual, just a CD i bung in my computer, i don't know more than every one else, just lots of passion for our favourite Marque, and yes we have totally got off the subject again, so let me take this moment to remind all 147, 156 and 166 owners of the Technical Workshop night at Maranello Pur Sang motors on Friday 27th May, bookings, phone 0407 090 826 or email drtool@bigpond.com.au, Colin.