I've been told to get thine hiney into gear and get a thread happening on my 105. The story so far...
I used to have a stepnose 105 which I pedaled around club events and 6 hours for a few years, when I decided to build a Group S car it had to go. I didn't want to put a 1600 back into it (which it would have needed to be eligible for Group S) and I needed the funds to build the Alfetta. Anyway, as it rolled out of the driveway with its new owner, I wiped the tears from my eyes I vowed I would own another one day.
As I have a race car, the 105 didn't need to be a race car, I really liked Max Banks (@ Alfaholics) GTA replica and decided that's what I want to do, 80% road 20% track. The search began. I had a few false starts, some contenders but either the deal fell through or I didn't have the funds cleared (you know what I mean!) at the time. Then Gary rang me and said, I'm selling the Giulia Super. That got the gears in my mind working.....could be fun and I already had a clear picture in my mind of what it could be with Rosso Amaranto exterior and the tan interior (my personal favorite on a Super). Before I handed over the cheque to Gary I asked him "are you sure you won't sell me the Stepnose shell, that's what I really want". He wouldn't. So a Super it was going to be, and I was genuinely excited about it. It wasn't going to be the GTA replica I wanted, but more along the lines of 'as it was, so shall it be now'. A few months passed and Gary rang me again and said, I'm moving the shell on....you interested? Of course I was ;D
Time to sell the super and the GTA replica is back on the drawing board.
As it stands now, I have not done a lot to the shell (save for taking off the front suspension and steering column). But I did manage to purchase an accident damaged car, thinking that this could give me a lot of the fiddly and hard to get bits. As it turns out, I can use a lot more from this car than I had anticipated. I spent a few days over the Christmas/New Year period pulling the interior out (which is now safely stored up in the attic) and the lights, brightwork etc. I also have some shiny bits stashed away to go on later.
As of right now, I need to get the 'spares' car down to a shell again, and get both shells down to Rankins to establish which one will be the better base for a fresh coat of **insert undecided colour here**. The original shell has some rust that needs attention, but the 'spares' car looks to be rust free (from a not so long ago restoration) but needs to go on a jig and will require some new panels. I would like to think that both can be saved, I don't want to pinch panels from one to go on the other. We'll see how we go.
Engine/Driveline: the plan is Twin Spark, hopefully with ITB's from a bike and ditch the Motronic in favour a mega squirt (or something along those lines). The 1600 in the 'spares' car seems good, maybe that might go in at first while the twin spark takes shape. Gear box seems ok too (I think!). I have a couple of diffs at home, neither of which is an LSD.....think I will stick with that for a while (budget!).
FWIW - From Automobilismo Storico Alfa Romeo
According to our documentation files, the chassis number AR 298424 originally corresponds to an Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint GT Veloce RHD (105.37), manufactured on the 16th October 1967 and sold in Melbourne, Australia.
I'm sorry, no further information about this car.
and....
According to our documentation files, the chassis number AR 298732 originally corresponds to an Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint GT Veloce RHD (105.37), manufactured on the 23rd November 1966 and sold on the 21st February 1967 to Addison Motors Ltd, Adelaide, Australia.
The body colour is hawthorn white, with black skai interiors.
Photos of the 'spares' car here http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=3330.msg16965#msg16965
I think white would be my colour for a GTA replica, with the green stripe and cloverleaf they look amazing. I know you didn't ask... :-)
Hi there,
Can I ask - what or who did you use to get the paint off the car in the images above ? I've found a bead blaster in Sunshine who appears to be one of the only people doing bead here in Victoria - and haven't been able to locate anyone that does Walnut shell blasting. I'm not keen on dipping or soda at this stage nor garnet or glass. I'd be keen to find out more as my intentions are very similar with my rebuild. I hear Paul is looking to restore his GTV6 now - so I may have to speak to him about my GT sprint's body work resto and perhaps the GTV bits ;)
Talk to Andrew at the Blast Factory in Coburg. Sorry number not at hand.
Pancho - sorry, I didnt take the paint off so I cant assist there.
I have been slowly pulling apart the spares car, having a lot of fun doing it too. I have also removed the front suspension from the shell and it was sitting on some chassis stands, which got tiresome every time I needed something from the shelves behind, so I grabbed some surplus bits from work that were destined for the scrap metal merchants and made up some dollies for the front. They are possibly a little high and too close together, so I may re-drill two more holes lower in the plate on the angle, which should lower the car slightly and space them apart a bit more. I will make up another set for the spares car too, just because I could and the steel was cheap!
I have also sourced a twin spark engine (thanks StormX!). I had the steel sitting at home for years to make up an engine stand, just never had the need to put it together, so while the mig was out I made this up.
Still not sure what the plans are for the twin spark, I had intentions of getting ITB's and Megasquirt (or similar), but I'm currently a little daunted by this so I'm thinking I might stick with the standard set up....at least for now. My only concern is fitting the standard set up in the step nose shell which I understand has a narrower engine bay than the later 1750/2000 105's.
Hi,
I went through the process of trying to fit a Twin Spark with the stock Bosch Motronic system into the engine bay of a step-nose - in my case, a 1969 GT1300 Junior. The step-nose engine bay (ie above the chassis rails) is indeed narrower than the smooth-nose engine bay.
The "easiest" way I could have retained the original Twin Spark intake plenum would have been to "relieve" the driver's side upper wheel well (ie the sloping section above the chassis rail section in the engine bay). I wasn't keen on this option, given the often draconian views VicRoads adopts in relation to structural/body modifications.
Alternatively, I could possibly have removed the rubber couplings between the Motronic intake plenum and the intake manifold, and then weld the former to the latter. However, I'm not convinced that this would have provided me with enough clearance (ie I'd probably still have to relieve the wheel well).
I tried a fabricated intake manifold, but was then presented with the problem of where to locate that big-arsed Motronic flap-style air flow meter and route the air intake plumbing. I looked at a piggy-back computer (eg Split Second) so that I could replace the AFM with a more modern and compact mass airflow sensor (MAS), but you're looking at the best part of $1,000 for that kind of set-up, with no guarantee that it will actually work properly.
I thought about ITBs and an aftermarket ECU, but again, this is not a trivial exercise to get working properly - at least not for an amateur spanner monkey like me. Also, my contact at VicRoads advised that an aftermarket ECU would need to be emissions tested and certified (and then the ECU would need to be sealed) in order to be properly road registerable in Victoria.
So... long story short, I'm now going to keep the Twin Spark, but convert it to twin Webers and a single 8-pole electronic distributor set-up. I would have liked to have kept the car EFI, but I'll now rationalise my decision (ie compromise) on the basis that the twin carbs and distributor will make the resulting set-up look more period correct and original.
Cheers,
Nick
Quote from: alfagtv58 on January 21, 2011, 11:58:05 AM
According to our documentation files, the chassis number AR 298424 originally corresponds to an Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint GT Veloce RHD (105.37), manufactured on the 16th October 1967 and sold in Melbourne, Australia.
I'm sorry, no further information about this car.
and....
According to our documentation files, the chassis number AR 298732 originally corresponds to an Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint GT Veloce RHD (105.37), manufactured on the 23rd November 1966 and sold on the 21st February 1967 to Addison Motors Ltd, Adelaide, Australia.
The body colour is hawthorn white, with black skai interiors.
Hey Phil, which one is the spares car and which is the project car? Mine was apparently built 1 day after your 298732 and has the four bolt front suspension where it connects to the body as opposed to some of the earlier GT Veloces. Its interesting how the later number of your two was built nearly a year before the other. I had heard they werent completed in sequence but that is a pretty big difference.
Hi Nick,
Thanks for your input, appreciate it. I have been watching your progress and questions on the BB with interest. I had considered going carbys, but I think that kind of defeats the purpose of the twin spark.......I'm really not sure what to do!!!!!
Derek,
I hadnt picked up that the later number was built earlier, well spotted! 732 is the 'spares' car, but who knows it may end up being the one that is repaired, that decision will be made a bit later once they both go down to the paint/panel guy (Rankins Restorations here in Melbourne). I thought the 2 bolt ones were only the GT, and the Veloce all had 4 bolts?
I just remembered, Stuart Thompson has a Junior with a twin spark and I'm pretty sure it used to have the standard FI. Stuart, if you read this, how did you shoe horn it in?
Just in case our club president ( Stuart) is tied up with Important matters of State and unable to respond. My last recollection of Stuart's TS Junior was that he had a problem with a miss in the motronic and was moving to ITB's. That was about 12 months ago.
I only mention it cause i recently found an old club magazine with the story of Stuart originally fitting the twin spark. Great read !!!.
Bump, Isn't Stuart heading off on the rally with Sheldon (different car) later this week.
Bump Bump Phil, just picked up on this thread I have got to say i love the stands you have made for the car . Thats the first Alfa i have ever seen " wearing stiletto heels".
I think Stu's car is a smooth-front late junior..?
Quote from: Evan Bottcher on May 11, 2011, 04:47:47 PM
I think Stu's car is a smooth-front late junior..?
dammit, you are right.....anyone remember whose RX7 it is in the background?
Colin Goundrey's RX7 I believe. I drove that once. It was pretty boring though because he had the power turned down to only 400bhp, from it's usual 500.
Quote from: alfagtv58 on May 11, 2011, 02:17:33 PM
Hi Nick,
Thanks for your input, appreciate it. I have been watching your progress and questions on the BB with interest. I had considered going carbys, but I think that kind of defeats the purpose of the twin spark.......I'm really not sure what to do!!!!!
No problem... I console myself by gazing longingly at the Alfaholics GTA replica, which runs Weber 45s on a Twin Spark motor. Scrapping the Bosch EFI system is a compromise, but, from what I've read, the general consensus seems to be that a well sorted Twin Spark on carbies should out-perform a similarly sorted Nord on carbies... all other things being equal.
Good luck with your decision... I feel your pain ;D
Regards,
Nick
Quote from: Sheldon McIntosh on May 11, 2011, 04:57:00 PM
Colin Goundrey's RX7 I believe. I drove that once. It was pretty boring though because he had the power turned down to only 400bhp, from it's usual 500.
Chocolate fish for Sheldon!
Quote from: alfagtv58 on May 11, 2011, 02:56:47 PM
I just remembered, Stuart Thompson has a Junior with a twin spark and I'm pretty sure it used to have the standard FI. Stuart, if you read this, how did you shoe horn it in?
Stuart's junior is 115 series, 1600 with a late body (smoothnose).
I am very concerned with this development as i have a TS that is inteded for a stepnose junior. I'll need to measure and compare the differnece between the two engine bays.
Probably tomorrow or Friday. I'll report back.
Nick's biggest problem, as far as i can see, are the hanging pedals rahter than transversal width.
Quote from: Branko Turk on May 11, 2011, 06:37:47 PM
I am very concerned with this development as i have a TS that is inteded for a stepnose junior. I'll need to measure and compare the differnece between the two engine bays.
Probably tomorrow or Friday. I'll report back.
Nick's biggest problem, as far as i can see, are the hanging pedals rahter than transversal width.
Hi Branko,
Your point is well made... the Alfetta hanging pedal box that I installed subsequently did cause an impediment from a
length-wise perspective. However, I only decided to go down that path after I found that I couldn't fit the Twin Spark with the stock Bosch intake plenum into the step-nose engine bay
width-wise. For the sake of others trying this transplant, I hope I've just made some fundamental error. As I say, I know it would all fit width-wise, if I was prepared to relieve the driver's side wheel well... but I couldn't see any other way to do it. Best of luck.
Also, I recall that one of the Alfabb threads detailing the fitting of a stock Twin Spark into smooth-nose 105 required welding the plenum to the intake manifold (ie removing the rubber couplings). Based on the photos provided, it was still a very tight fit in the smooth-nose engine bay (ie between the plenum and the wheel well).
Regards,
Nick
Nice stands Phil :)
I dont think it's a bad thing to run a Twinspark on carbies. The twinspark benefited from a more efficient twin plug head design
and theres definitely gains to be had as long as its set up properly. The EFI setup is ideal if say your car was a daily driver, but those
who run carbs do claim decent driveabilty, with good power and economy. So plenty of reason to consider it, especially if you don't have many options as Nick has highlighted. Then there is the period look and sound if its any consolation. Usually it's twin 45s on a custom manifold like Alfaholics sell or Vin has a rubber mounted version if memory serves me correct.
It is a tight fit even in the smooth nose engine bay, another thing apart from the plenum is the second exhaust cam mounted dizzy sits really close to the radiator, which mounts a good case for a single 8 point dizzy conversion.
Good luck with the resto Phil hopefully you'll end up with two cars one with a Twinspark the other with an original Twim Cam (Nord) :)
Quote from: njh1964 on May 11, 2011, 11:05:35 PM
... the fitting of a stock Twin Spark into smooth-nose 105 required welding the plenum to the intake manifold
That wasn't necessary with my smooth-nose conversion, but I did have an issue with the throttle pulley being too high for the bonnet to shut properly, using standard engine mounts. Of course, if you lowered the RHS mount, you would tilt the engine into the wheel-well, and there's already almost no clearance there. I suspect the best solution is custom engine mounts both sides, but in my case, we just modified the bonnet frame a little to make it fit.
If you're in Melbourne and want a close inspection of a successful conversion, just PM me.
Clifford.
And carbs do sound fantastic :P
How about something like this?
(http://www.alfaholics.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/71.jpg)
Andrew Wilson in Qld races the old Alan Lewis Alfetta, which runs a twinspark on 48mm Webers and it flies. I realise this has nothing to do with shoe-horning a twinnie into a stepnose, just a comment on twinnies on carbs. Andrew's twinspark engine on carbs has mountains of torque and plenty of top end power.
Cheers,
Brent
Quote from: Evan Bottcher on May 12, 2011, 10:28:04 AM
How about something like this?
Those mag cam covers they do for twinsparks are fantastic. or should I say fanta$tic :)
what a great looking donk !
That's a great looking engine, love the cam cover.
Are they trying to make it look like this...?
More like this:
(http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/attachments/gt-1965-1974/33450d1142540152-gtam-engine-sale-p3160007a.jpg)
(from here: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/gt-1965-1974/22458-gtam-engine-sale.html)
Now, that's what I'm talking about. Who ever did that build seems to have sourced a slightly "curved downwards" intake manifold, which lifts the carbs higher up in the engine bay... perhaps to gain a little bit more clearance relative to the driver's side wheel arch. He also seems to have used an Alfa 75 Twin Spark thermostat housing (ie the bypass variety) in the top radiator hose assembly. Very interesting.
In case it wasn't obvious - that's a real GTAm engine, described by Jim K in that link. The long curved intake manifold I expect was cast by Autodelta?
Apols for the off-topic, Phil.
I think the Alfaholics cover is aluminium. It has a very modern CNC preciseness about it, I think it'd need to be bashed around a bit before it'd really look period. Bloody nice though.
http://www.alfaholics.com/2010/07/alfaholics-gtam-twin-spark-cam-cover-129/
Quote from: Evan Bottcher on May 13, 2011, 09:29:13 AM
Apols for the off-topic, Phil.
No dramas, I'm enjoying the conversation. And I agree with AikenDrum, nice but $$$$$, think i will try the black crinkle finish on the std.
I have spoken to Hugh Harrison who has built a step nose with TS and std FI for a customer, he assures me it is possible.....with some modifications. So I will take that path.
BTW - Last night I read the article that Gully refers to in an earlier post, it was from C+S September '04.
i looked at the difference between the two engine bays and the new body is defintely more accomodating on the driver's side.
Btw i have a stepnose junior with the late body which is destined for scrap so i will use that pannel and transplant it into the good body with the early panel.
this differnce is quite big and i have doubht that you coudl sucessfully bash it to shape.
Phil, check with Hugh if the build he did was possibly on a late stepnose junor which woudl explain why it did fit.
Definitely an early one
Anyone got 4 stuffed twin spark plugs lying around? I need to weld some all thread onto them as I want to make up one of those head removal tools (like the one in these photos I found on the Alfabb), but like an idiot, I threw out all 8 plugs that came out of the engine ::)
Turns out I didn't throw the plugs away, so have welded some all thread on 4 of 'em today. Just need to drill a couple more holes in the plate, will post some pics when finished.
Any updates on this TS build up?
Hi Pancho, sorry mate but you cannot expect much quick progress here. 3 1/2 year old boy and 10 week old girl has kind of halted progress (funds and time). I did manage to drill the holes in the plate and put the plugs in and tighten them up, but I didnt put too much torque on them yet, I figured, slowly slowly....havent been in the shed for a while, I should go back and check :D
I did get a shiny grille in the post yesterday (got thru the bbhttp://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/giulia-gta-gta-1300-jr-gtam-1965-1975/183855-gta-heart-shaped-grille.html (http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/giulia-gta-gta-1300-jr-gtam-1965-1975/183855-gta-heart-shaped-grille.html)), which I am very excited about. The grille on these cars is such a prominent piece. I got a repro Super grille so it will need some modification.
Actually pancho, I did want to ask about those rear lights you have (from Evans thread), I think you have got NOS ones, what are the old ones like, shagged or reasonable? My ones are damaged, either way I'll be getting new lenses, but if the back piece I can get away without buying new I would be happy.
Quote from: alfagtv58 on August 17, 2011, 09:33:57 PM
I did get a shiny grille in the post yesterday...
Photos or it didn't happen :o
Quote from: Evan Bottcher on August 17, 2011, 09:38:53 PM
Quote from: alfagtv58 on August 17, 2011, 09:33:57 PM
I did get a shiny grille in the post yesterday...
Photos or it didn't happen :o
Hmmm thought I could get away with the link. Its already stashed away in the attic, and I'm just too bone lazy to do anything about it now ;D
That Botcher guy sure is quick off the mark!
No worries, we also have a 2yo and a 3wk old now so yeah I know time is non existant.
I'll check out the light backings and get some snaps when I go down south next , I also have a new set if repro tail lenses from Alfaholics that I'll sell too.
Good work with the grill, should look the bizz when popped on. Btw the shed is your friend.
Wow, it's been a while. I have been slowly pulling apart my 'spares' car. Its almost back to a shell now. Engine/gearbox came out on the weekend.
Nice to hear Phil. It's hard to get the motivation going, especially this time of year!
Crumbs, it's been a while. A fair bit has happened. Car got completely stripped to a shell, it was soda blasted and is now having the bodywork done. Wont be toooooo far away from a coat of paint!
I hope your paint guy has dealt with soda blasted cars before, they're a pain in the arse.
Yes, I had heard that before, and I was a little nervous about it....but the combination of the soda blaster/body repair shop/painter have worked together before on a number of projects, including their own cars and more recently a very nice Aston Martin DB4. That made me pretty comfortable they know what needs to be done ;D
I'm starting to get VERY excited to bring it home and be able to put my ratchet in the 'tighten' position.
Looking good Phil, nice to see some progress on this beastie !! Should look sweet once back together.
Quote from: alfagtv58 on June 24, 2013, 01:28:17 PM
Wow, it's been a while. I have been slowly pulling apart my 'spares' car. Its almost back to a shell now. Engine/gearbox came out on the weekend.
Hmm.... What's going to happen to that 'spare car' ??
Quote from: Craig_m67 on May 14, 2014, 03:48:14 PM
Quote from: alfagtv58 on June 24, 2013, 01:28:17 PM
Wow, it's been a while. I have been slowly pulling apart my 'spares' car. Its almost back to a shell now. Engine/gearbox came out on the weekend.
Hmm.... What's going to happen to that 'spare car' ??
I 'think' it's spoken for. Yet to agree on price (actually, yet to start talking price), but if it falls through I will post here.
Very nice Phil.
When are you putting a cage in it ;D
Thanks HMD, no cage for this one, it's not a race car, I want to put the kids in the back and go for a drive through the hills.....although I could race tape them to the cage, they wont go far then.
Some more progress with the new rear panel now fitted. And my latest acquisition, a very nice Personal steering wheel 8)
Metal work complete, now for paint.
More...
last for now.
8)
Looking forward to seeing the paint choice!
I said... looking forward to seeing the paint choice!
I cant seem to find the tumbleweed emoticon.