Alfa Romeo Owners Club of Australia Forum

Technical => 116 Series (Alfetta Sedan/GT/GTV & Giulietta Sedan) => Topic started by: Nikola on January 09, 2011, 04:57:57 AM

Title: GTV 6 2.5 V6 running problems
Post by: Nikola on January 09, 2011, 04:57:57 AM
I had a plenty problems with my GTV 6.Gone so far that on the end I change ECU and got my car working normally.All sensors and vaacums were checked by Greg Gordons manual for L-Jetronic and everything was fine for some short period when another problem appeared.

After the rainy night I got up in the morning and sat in my GTV and turn the ignition and next thing happened.She started to idle un evenly working on 4,5 cilinders,than 5,6 cilinders and when I started to drive she start to spit black smoke from exhaust and not working on all 6 cilinders,and no power.Like she is gulping a noodle.I came back to a parking lot and started quick check.Start changing one by one.Another AFM nothing,pull out a cold start injector,not leaking,changing rotor and cap,measuring fuel pressure which was fine.All that couldn't help,and everything stayed as it was like I didn't touch anything at all.

Next day I was driving it to my frend mechanic and while I was driving it and while she got warmer and warmer she allowed me to drive her from 3000 rpm's on beggining to 5000 rpm's when she did get warm.The feeling is like you hit a rev limiter.With other words as she is getting more warmer she allows you more rpm's.

After a week or so she stayed in garage of my frend mechanic I decided to start her and she did start at a glance of a key.As she was working I would be pressing a gas pedal few times to see how she works and she did well until she reached 80 deegre of celzius and than problem.As you press the gas pedal feeling is like you pressing it into nothing because there is suddenly no reaction but if you keep presing the gas pedal than she starts to gulp a noodle and starts not to work on all 6 cilinders,no more normal idle running.She drops to 500 rpm's and when I start pressing pedal again she is gulping noodle again and when I remove my foot from a pedal she dies slowly to a stall.I didn't try to start the engine again because I was so sad and dissapointed so I just locked her up and sad goodbye.

Anybody had a scenario like this??? 
Title: Re: GTV 6 2.5 V6 running problems
Post by: bt46 on January 09, 2011, 07:03:18 AM
New spark plugs?
Title: Re: GTV 6 2.5 V6 running problems
Post by: Nikola on January 09, 2011, 07:33:53 AM
Quote from: bt46 on January 09, 2011, 07:03:18 AM
New spark plugs?

Of course.
Title: Re: GTV 6 2.5 V6 running problems
Post by: redalfaracing on January 09, 2011, 08:29:08 AM
also replace fuel filter. If not already done, could be blocked with rust from the tank.
Title: Re: GTV 6 2.5 V6 running problems
Post by: Anthony Miller on January 09, 2011, 12:49:01 PM
Check the sparkplug leads, mine would run on 5 and then 4 the wetter the weather got, changed the whole plug loom and problem solved. You should also check the distributor cap for cracks while your at it.
Title: Re: GTV 6 2.5 V6 running problems
Post by: dehne on January 09, 2011, 12:57:15 PM
what about rear main oil seal at the back/bottom of engine i know when mine went, when you put the foot down it was sort of the same
Title: Re: GTV 6 2.5 V6 running problems
Post by: dehne on January 09, 2011, 03:24:26 PM
when mine went the car ran like shit idle was shit accel was really shit ran like was on 4cyl i pulled engine out replaced and car fantastic again so it does effect it how i do not know must be something to do with compression
Title: Re: GTV 6 2.5 V6 running problems
Post by: Evan Bottcher on January 09, 2011, 03:58:49 PM
.
Title: Re: GTV 6 2.5 V6 running problems
Post by: dehne on January 09, 2011, 04:22:02 PM
sorry king evan almighty knower of all thing in the world, but this time ur wrong wrong and yes wrong  ;D
Title: Re: GTV 6 2.5 V6 running problems
Post by: Nikola on January 09, 2011, 06:41:52 PM
Never mind is it a bullshit or not.
Any body has some more ideas?
Title: Re: GTV 6 2.5 V6 running problems
Post by: Nikola on January 09, 2011, 06:44:11 PM
Quote from: Evan Bottcher on January 09, 2011, 03:58:49 PM
.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: GTV 6 2.5 V6 running problems
Post by: Typhoon90 on January 09, 2011, 07:26:53 PM
L jet is very sensitive to unmetered air entering the engine, if the crankcase draws a lot of air in through a bad seal etc, it WILL affect the idle. Don't believe it? Take the oil filler cap off the engine when it is running.......however, I can't see a main seal allowing that much air through without the car looking like the Exxon Valdez.

Regards, Andrew.
Title: Re: GTV 6 2.5 V6 running problems
Post by: aggie57 on January 09, 2011, 09:06:08 PM
Quote from: Nikola on January 09, 2011, 06:41:52 PM
Never mind is it a bullshit or not.
Any body has some more ideas?

If it's temperature sensitive have you checked the water temp sensor?  I can't recall how it hooks into the injection but seem to recall hearing something similar In the past.

Can't see any connection between the RMS and this.......

Alister
Title: Re: GTV 6 2.5 V6 running problems
Post by: Nikola on January 09, 2011, 11:59:04 PM
My opinion is that she is not temperature sensitive but weather sensitive meaning humidity on or after the rainy day or no humidity on sunny day.I'm betting on a spark plug cables but I will check the cables this week once my mechanic finds a little time for my cursed GTV 6.
Only thing which is much confusing is that from a beggining of my story that before she was working better after engine gets warm and now she is working worse after engine gets warm in a manner that she was not working on all six cilinders on beggining of my story and now.
Title: Re: GTV 6 2.5 V6 running problems
Post by: Typhoon90 on January 10, 2011, 08:09:10 AM
 Don't misquote me or partially quote what I wrote. I know full well how the PCV system works, clearly you don't. It doesn't let air out, the PCV system draws excess combustion chamber gases out using engine vacuum.
The PCV system is fully capable of drawing far more air than blowby creates and any small leak in any gasket or seal will allow unmetered, fresh air to travel through the crankcase into the PCV system and thence into the engine, where it WILL affect A/F ratios due to being unmetered air.

Regards, Andrew.


Quote from: Choderboy on January 10, 2011, 01:10:29 AM

The crank case does not draw air IN, it lets air OUT. We call this blow-by. The small amount of pressure that makes it's way past the piston rings.
That is why you have a breather, to let this pressure out, otherwise the pressure can cause oil leaks.

I've been thinking about Dehne saying that changing the rear main seal solved his problem of the engine running poorly, but I think he just had a bit of a coincidence on his hands.

Title: Re: GTV 6 2.5 V6 running problems
Post by: Nikola on January 10, 2011, 11:31:35 AM
Guys don't argue,it is not worth it.
Still I need more ideas and people's opinions who had a same problem as me.Cheers.
Title: Re: GTV 6 2.5 V6 running problems
Post by: bt46 on January 10, 2011, 06:49:41 PM
Somebody with a V6 powered alfa running the standard efi please do the following.

1 run car at idle
2 remove oil filler cap
3 take note of effect (if any which there will be none) on idle

argument solved

Nikola could the ecu be getting wet?
Title: Re: GTV 6 2.5 V6 running problems
Post by: Typhoon90 on January 10, 2011, 07:48:55 PM
 There is an effect, care to come round here and observe? Why does every L jet workshop manual I've ever read also state this will happen?
Please explain with facts instead of sentiment. You are aware that L jet is very sensitive to unmetered air leaks yes? And that any crankcase leak will cause unmetered air to enter the induction system, throwing off the mixtures as the AFM has not allowed for the volume of this air?
If there's one thing I can't stand about forums, it's people with barely enough knowledge to misinterpret things they've read that were wrong on other forums, then running around, spreading it as gospel.
If you have nothing to contribute about the poor running issue, leave it alone for those with real world experience.

Regards, Andrew.


Quote from: bt46 on January 10, 2011, 06:49:41 PM
Somebody with a V6 powered alfa running the standard efi please do the following.

1 run car at idle
2 remove oil filler cap
3 take note of effect (if any which there will be none) on idle

argument solved

Nikola could the ecu be getting wet?
Title: Re: GTV 6 2.5 V6 running problems
Post by: bt46 on January 10, 2011, 08:00:54 PM
Why are you so angry?
Never effected any of my alfas?
There must have been something wrong with them? After all I know jack.
Title: Re: GTV 6 2.5 V6 running problems
Post by: Evan Bottcher on January 10, 2011, 08:54:25 PM
Typhoon90: Have you considered anger management therapy?  Or steer clear of internet forums - they're full of dickheads (including me) and shit-stirrers (including me).
Title: Re: GTV 6 2.5 V6 running problems
Post by: bt46 on January 10, 2011, 09:07:39 PM
At this stage may i relate a little story about the one we call 'the instant expert'. It's a little off topic, however somewhat pertinent to the overall scheme of things.

Couple of weeks ago i had a gentleman come around and have a look at an italian car i have advertised for sale. Now it's a unique car and this person has two of them, so I guess he might know a thing or two. Anyway, the first thing he wanted to do before anything else was, of course, start the engine. Well apparently he could feel with his hand placed onto the plenum chamber that "this engine has no compression" and that he was sure there was an engine noise that indicated the 'inlet manifold had moved'. Suffice to say I was rather dumbfounded and a little lost for words at the time, but the point is ...... Well I have no point really. I just think it's an amusing anecdote; as a footnote to the original question of this thread.
Title: Re: GTV 6 2.5 V6 running problems
Post by: Typhoon90 on January 10, 2011, 09:11:51 PM
Quote from: Evan Bottcher on January 10, 2011, 08:54:25 PM
Typhoon90: Have you considered anger management therapy?  Or steer clear of internet forums - they're full of dickheads (including me) and shit-stirrers (including me).
Angry? Hang on. I don't like being called a liar. Please forgive me for throwing that back in someone's face. ::)
You know what? I couldn't give a shit. Sort out your own car's problems, what would I know? I'm not a forum troll, waiting to misquote and pick apart someone's posts or score cheap popularity points.
At least I don't live at home with mummy and daddy, like some of the forum tough guys here. :D
Title: Re: GTV 6 2.5 V6 running problems
Post by: Nikola on January 11, 2011, 01:38:26 AM
Today is a nice sunny day and she worked fine.I think there is some loose contacts or humidity in some electric circuits.I think there is going to be a long search for this Gremlin.Arghhhhh.I will keep you guys posted.
Title: Re: GTV 6 2.5 V6 running problems
Post by: Anthony Miller on January 11, 2011, 09:31:07 AM
Nikola, start with the plug leads, I tried all the connectors and everything to do with the ecu with no luck until I changed the plug leads. As the leads get older they get cracks in the insulation, most you can see, some you can't. When they are cracked they will track through the crack and earth out mostly to the engine itself but sometimes it might earth out to another cracked lead. This tracking is made worse by more moisture in the air ( rainy or humid days)
Title: Re: GTV 6 2.5 V6 running problems
Post by: shane wescott on January 11, 2011, 08:59:58 PM
Hi Nikola

I feel your pain. My GTV6 sits in the backyard bitter and twisted because I am now riding the Ducati.

I have a no fuel scenario which I will get to the bottom off eventually - but onto your problem. The only rough type issue I have had is a dodgy vacuum pipe which comes off and then stops the car idling.

Good luck.
Title: Re: GTV 6 2.5 V6 running problems
Post by: Nikola on January 12, 2011, 01:09:32 AM
Today I started her again.But today in the morning was a heavy rain and after the rain stopped I started her and let her to get warmed.No problems at all.Unbelievable  ??? ??? ???.
I hope this saturday my mechanic and me are going to spare few hours time for her and to check few items.Hopefully.
Title: Re: GTV 6 2.5 V6 running problems
Post by: wankski on January 12, 2011, 01:27:06 PM
Nikola,

Hope the gtv6 is still running well.

I am gravely embarrased by the forum, my apologies for that.

have you posted your issue at www.alfagtv6.com??

There is a fellow on there called Greg Gordon - he knows the L-jet as well as anyone...

Back in the day I built an L-jet replacement (the megasquirt EFi controller) to overcome the L-jet issues. At that time i had a heap more knowledge about it than I have retained now, sorry.

If anyone can point you in the right direction its Greg. He can also suppy you with all the hoses and piping in silicone to suit your gtv6. sales aside, he is a very nice guy and i'm sure will be happy to point you in the right direction - or at lest give you some useful clues.

You can also find him here: http://www.hiperformancestore.com/  (and lots of cool gtv6 stuff)

Best of luck!

Joe
Title: Re: GTV 6 2.5 V6 running problems
Post by: Nikola on January 12, 2011, 09:08:46 PM
Quote from: wankski on January 12, 2011, 01:27:06 PM
Nikola,

Hope the gtv6 is still running well.

I am gravely embarrased by the forum, my apologies for that.

have you posted your issue at www.alfagtv6.com??

There is a fellow on there called Greg Gordon - he knows the L-jet as well as anyone...

Back in the day I built an L-jet replacement (the megasquirt EFi controller) to overcome the L-jet issues. At that time i had a heap more knowledge about it than I have retained now, sorry.

If anyone can point you in the right direction its Greg. He can also suppy you with all the hoses and piping in silicone to suit your gtv6. sales aside, he is a very nice guy and i'm sure will be happy to point you in the right direction - or at lest give you some useful clues.

You can also find him here: http://www.hiperformancestore.com/  (and lots of cool gtv6 stuff)

Best of luck!

Joe


No need to apologise Joe.Thank's for mentioning Greg Gordon.I allready contacted him once,of course because of L-Jet.
Hopefully somehow I will get there  ;).
Title: Re: GTV 6 2.5 V6 running problems
Post by: shane wescott on January 14, 2011, 11:31:06 PM
Sounds like the GTV6 is flexing it's muscles and wants to go for a decent run.

You should drag it out by the ears and take it on the next club run so it gets to meet some new friends, and clears out some cobwebs.

The more you use them, the better they like it.

CAtch ya

Shane