The Ricciardi should be back on the road in a few days, and I'm starting to think about some new tyres (and possibly wheels).
It's currently wearing Yokohama A509s in 205x55x14 on a set of widened steel wheels. They were on the car when I bought it 12 years ago, and still have masses of tread (light car, low mileage), but although the grip level is very high (in the dry at least - it aquaplanes too easily in the wet, another reason to reduce the contact patch a bit) there is very little steering feel, and I'd like to try some 195s to see if that helps with the feel and the scary aqua planing.
I've been reading some of the tyre/wheel threads here and on AlfaBB, and I gather that it's getting hard to find performance road tyres in 14" - keen to get some advice on who still caters for we poor 105 folk, and what you've found that works well on a 105.
I'm also thinking about some alloys. Something reasonably restrained that will work with the retro body style. Is it possible to get the GTA-style wheels here in Oz? I see that someone in the UK makes them, which is encouraging.
Had three (or four...) sets of BF Goodrich G Force Sports on my cars (though they're not 105's natch) over the years, awesome tyre, v rated (good for Ricciardi) , great grip, feel and brilliant handling. Amazing in wet, high levels of grip and really progressive feel when on (high) limit. Wear rate is surprisingly good too. Even on suds/33's ;D Come in 14's.
Bridgestone Adrenalins 'almost' as good...and bit cheaper. Bought them most recently, not quite as good as BFG's.
BFG's won a Wheels Mag tyre test in 60 series tyres a few years back, that's how I got onto them. BFG has been owned by Michelin for a while now, being marketed as 'Sports' niche demographic. Only tyre I've ever had with 'Traction AA' on side with those US markings, yet still with Temperature A and 'Treadwear 340'. Remember having some Bridgestone Potenza RE 711's in 185/60x14 that were only 'Treadwear 140'...they didn't last long! Had Yokohama 520's before them, 2 gens on from 509's, they were good but way too soft for FWD again, 'Treadwear 210' by memory. Only have the coffee mug got with them now!
Yes, know they're not on 105's, but, a good tyre is a good tyre... ;)
12 year old rubber's gonna be pretty hard by 2010...the vicroads website when talking about tyre build year dating (for what it's worth...) advise that anything with the single year dating markings ( the 90's ) should be replaced for regular use...
Quote from: philpot on November 23, 2010, 11:02:30 PM
Had three (or four...) sets of BF Goodrich G Force Sports on my cars (though they're not 105's natch) over the years, awesome tyre, v rated (good for Ricciardi) , great grip, feel and brilliant handling. Amazing in wet, high levels of grip and really progressive feel when on (high) limit. Wear rate is surprisingly good too. Even on suds/33's ;D Come in 14's.
Bridgestone Adrenalins 'almost' as good...and bit cheaper. Bought them most recently, not quite as good as BFG's.
BFG's won a Wheels Mag tyre test in 60 series tyres a few years back, that's how I got onto them. BFG has been owned by Michelin for a while now, being marketed as 'Sports' niche demographic. Only tyre I've ever had with 'Traction AA' on side with those US markings, yet still with Temperature A and 'Treadwear 340'. Remember having some Bridgestone Potenza RE 711's in 185/60x14 that were only 'Treadwear 140'...they didn't last long! Had Yokohama 520's before them, 2 gens on from 509's, they were good but way too soft for FWD again, 'Treadwear 210' by memory. Only have the coffee mug got with them now!
12 year old rubber's gonna be pretty hard by 2010...the vicroads website when talking about tyre build year dating (for what it's worth...) advise that anything with the single year dating markings ( the 90's ) should be replaced for regular use...
Yes, know they're not on 105's, but, a good tyre is a good tyre...
Thanks for that - I'll put the BFGs on the list :)
You're probably right about the rubber hardening - another reason to change them soon.
Falken ZE912 available 195/60/14 and a little more purposeful are the Dunlop DZ1 also avail in 195/60/14. Falkens from Bob Jane, Dunlops from Stuckey
Hi mate,
have a chat to Vin Sharp re the wheels - he imports the GTA and TZ/ Super Ti reps from places mysterioux ;) I bought a set of the Super reps from him a couple months ago - really happy with them.
The old A509's were brilliant tyres, as were the A539s I ran on the GTV6 - I think their replacement is the Yoko C-Drive (there's a set on the 1750 gtv of a friend I'm driving at the moment) - they've been excellent in the wet - deep central channels for dumping the water. Not sure if they have the speed / temp rating you're after though...
But that's just a bit of spirited city commute - not campaigning down the back straight and throwing out the anchors at the last minute ;)
Quote from: Anthony Miller on November 24, 2010, 10:04:42 AM
Falken ZE912 available 195/60/14 and a little more purposeful are the Dunlop DZ1 also avail in 195/60/14. Falkens from Bob Jane, Dunlops from Stuckey
Cool - looks like there are a few options then!
Thanks for the Stuckey reference, just checked their website and as well as the Dunlops it looks like they also carry the Compomotive GTA replica wheels. Anyone know whether the Compomotives are a good option?
I run Pirelli 195x55 P6000s on my 1750GTV and they have been superb in the wet, they are on BWA 14' alloys. I have since also fitted Pirelli P7s but 15" on my 156 and have a set of Pirelli P600s on my Fiat AC 124 Sport. I have tried other tyre makes over the years but seem to end up always fitting Pirellis by choice.
Scott is right re Vin Sharp. If you have no luck there, have a look at both Alfaholics (send an e-mail to Jim Spakman/Max Banks) or alternatively ClassicAlfa (Richard Norris). Both of these companies are UK based, their websites are excellent, and both really helpful.
Bob Jane website is good, just 'advanced option' size wanted (I looked up 195/60x14) and it lists tyres available, image, specs and a bit of a blurb. They dont put up Goodyear/Dunlop options but...
Just looked up Stuckeys' site, yes Anthony, Direzza Sport D1's do look awesome...what price point do they go for?...(they even come in 185/60x14. Hmmm...would look good on the 16v - when I get it back from the Panel Beater!) H rated though...what rating does the Ricciardi need/what rating are you after tjb?
I was quoted $210 a tyre 195/60/14 but that was six months ago, who knows might even be cheaper now that we're buying more yankee dollars. Haven't heard how they wear but have heard they are quite stickey and they're not quite an 'R' spec so they don't bump you into "modified" class if sprinting is your thing. I really shoud buy a set
Scott is right re Vin Sharp. If you have no luck there, have a look at both Alfaholics (send an e-mail to Jim Spakman/Max Banks) or alternatively ClassicAlfa (Richard Norris). Both of these companies are UK based, their websites are excellent, and both really helpful.]Scott is right re Vin Sharp. If you have no luck there, have a look at both Alfaholics (send an e-mail to Jim Spakman/Max Banks) or alternatively ClassicAlfa (Richard Norris). Both of these companies are UK based, their websites are excellent, and both really helpful.
Thanks for that - already been on both sites :) The 105 parts situation is amazing these days - genuine original parts are more expensive than they were in the 90s, but on the positive side there are so many parts being manufactured now, and so many improved parts available, like the Alfaholics LSD. Great stuff (although potentially dangerous to the hip pocket!).
I sent an email to Stuckey about the Compomotive GTA replicas today, and I'll give Vin Sharp a call and see what he's got. I need to check what offset I need, too - not sure what the offset on the widened steel rims is.
Just looked up Stuckeys' site, yes Anthony, Direzza Sport D1's do look awesome...what price point do they go for?...(they even come in 185/60x14. Hmmm...would look good on the 16v - when I get it back from the Panel Beater!) H rated though...what rating does the Ricciardi need/what rating are you after tjb?]Just looked up Stuckeys' site, yes Anthony, Direzza Sport D1's do look awesome...what price point do they go for?...(they even come in 185/60x14. Hmmm...would look good on the 16v - when I get it back from the Panel Beater!) H rated though...what rating does the Ricciardi need/what rating are you after tjb?
Rs are probably fine - it's a light car (about 760kg with driver) and mine's limited by the low ratio diff (4.55, I think) to 170kph anyway. Main use will be fast road with some sprint days thrown in.
Given that the 509s have hardly worn at all over so many years I think I could probably go softer without any wear problems. However, at the moment I'm after feel and progressive breakaway rather than ultimate grip. The limiting factor with the Ricciardi when I was driving it a lot was how suddenly it would let go when you reached the breakaway point. Part of that may be the suspension set up - I think the Konis may be wound down too tight - but I want to see if the tyres make a difference first, since I need some anyway and it's easier to change the tyres than pull the suspension apart to adjust the shocks.
Thanks for all the suggestions everyone - so far it looks like Falken, Pirelli P6000 or BFG for fast road, or the Dunlop for a semi-racing tyre. That's a better set of options than I expected!
Oops, missed one! According to the Bob Jane site (thanks philpot!) the c-drive also comes in 195x60x14.
Hmm. Spoke to Vin, and he pointed out that for a 14" wheel I want 195x65, not 195x60 as I thought. I had stupidly assumed that the current tyres matched the standard circumference, and they're actually a bit smaller (based on the original size for a 1750GTV of 165x80x14).
That narrows the field slightly - looks like the c.drive and the P6000 only come in 195x60.
I'm giving those Marangoni Verso tyres a go on the super - by which I mean, when I finally get it moving under it's own power this weekend I'll be giving them a go (brand new)
Absolutely no feedback on their race performance - but reviews on the interwebs and such have placed them around the same as a c-drive or better. They're also available in a huge range of sizes, including 195/65 R14.
I really wouldn't have thought of running them, but they seem to be gaining popularity - and they aren't super expensive either.
Cheers,
I have also heard very positive things about Marangoni tyres too. They provide many race tyres for "one make" race series in Europe as well as F3 or other open wheeler race series in Italy etc.
Marangoni also has a another subbrand called Stunner which is cheaper yet again and is where they rebadge superceded Marangoni models as Stunners. I have a set on my GTV and they are really good, its just that many people here in Australia still havent heard of them but they are well known in Europe.
Sounds interesting - who stocks them?
Edit: Answering my own question, Tyrecorp is the distributor, looks like a few independent tyre places stock them.
Quick summary of what I'm considering in 195x65x14, which is the correct size to maintain standard gearing on a 105 with 14" wheels (other options would be 205x60x14 or 185x70x14).
I can only find one (claimed) high performance tyre in that size, although as people have suggested in this thread there are some in 195x60x14. Presumably a market/demand thing. Not necessarily a big deal - I suspect even a modest family car tyre of today would drive rings around an original 60s Cinturato.
Most of the options seem to be in the "balanced performance" category - basically quality all-rounders, sometimes with an emphasis on wet weather handling. Note that there are other tyres available, but the others I've found are either clearly not aimed at sports cars, or are race tyres.
Bridgestone Turanza R10
Yokohama A.drive
BF Goodrich Sport/TA
Falken ZE912
Marangoni Verso
Goodyear Regatta 2 (don't know much about these - they seem to be made exclusively for kmart auto, which doesn't inspire confidence)
Goodyear Eagle LS2000
Goodyear Eagle GA Plus
Hankook Optimo K406 (claims to be high performance)
As usual, you can find reviews on the internet to praise or slam pretty much all of these.
I had a similar problem with my 116 GTV. There aren't many good fast road tyres available in 14in. I eventually went with a recommendation of C drives in 195/60 and have been very happy with them. Their grip in the wet is excellent and the wear is very good given the level of stickiness (I'm running 3 degrees neg camber and have no noticable uneven wear after six months daily driving). I know that doesn't solve the 60/65 problem but I would rather have great tyres and a slightly inaccurate speedo.
Quote from: GTVeloce on November 29, 2010, 02:44:26 PM
I had a similar problem with my 116 GTV. There aren't many good fast road tyres available in 14in. I eventually went with a recommendation of C drives in 195/60 and have been very happy with them. Their grip in the wet is excellent and the wear is very good given the level of stickiness (I'm running 3 degrees neg camber and have no noticable uneven wear after six months daily driving). I know that doesn't solve the 60/65 problem but I would rather have great tyres and a slightly inaccurate speedo.
Thanks for the info :)
I don't want to go down in gearing any further if I can avoid it, because the car is already geared very low (I suspect it has a 4.55 rear end).
...and dont forget the Goodyear Assurance Armorgrip with exclusive 'waffle blade' technology!!! ::) (No, I'm not making that/them up!)
This is getting really complicated! Unless you can read some 'independent' tyre tests by car mags or such, or direct feedback from people on this forum who've had the tyres on a similiar car....
Though.. when its time to get new tyres for my cars I must admit I quite enjoy the research too ....
Quick update with the latest progress....
I added Michelin XM1s to the list after hearing someone's good experience with them on a 75. Very progressive, apparently, which was encouraging.
However, it comes down to availability. I managed to find a total of 3 Michelins at two different places, and noone was confident of being able to get more, so that sort of eliminated them straight away.
In the end I've gone for the Falkens because they're available and everyone seems to think they're at least reasonable. I'm dropping the wheels off to get 'em fitted on Saturday, so depending on the weather I should give them their first try-out later in the weekend.
Thanks everyone for all the great suggestions and help :)
Quote from: tjb0274 on December 02, 2010, 03:42:39 PM
I added Michelin XM1s to the list after hearing someone's good experience with them on a 75. Very progressive, apparently, which was encouraging.
However, it comes down to availability. I managed to find a total of 3 Michelins at two different places, and noone was confident of being able to get more, so that sort of eliminated them straight away.
+1 on the XM1's - I probably spoke to the same guy - I could only find 3 of them a month ago too. Some guff about there being a big shipment due from Michelin / ship not arrived yet / arrived yet but not unloaded / stock still in customs.. etc etc.
Keep us posted on the Falkens !
Quote from: AikenDrum105 on December 07, 2010, 12:13:41 PM
+1 on the XM1's - I probably spoke to the same guy - I could only find 3 of them a month ago too. Some guff about there being a big shipment due from Michelin / ship not arrived yet / arrived yet but not unloaded / stock still in customs.. etc etc.
Keep us posted on the Falkens !
It's a shame - the Michelins do seem like good tyres.
The Falkens went on (with the new wheels) on Saturday. Two of the wheels took a lot of weights to balance, not sure whether that's the wheels or tyres, although I suspect the former. They seemed ok putting around town on Saturday afternoon, and then got a reasonable workout at the club observation run on Sunday (a bit over 200km including the drive home afterwards).
I wasn't able to push the car because the suspension issues got worse during the drive - fairly sure now that the rear trailing arm bushes are shot - but the Falkens certainly felt better than their ancient predecessors, which were getting pretty wooden. There was more feel in the steering, and the car felt more planted whenever the rear axle was pointing in the right direction.
Remains to be seen how they are in the wet, and when pushing nearer to the limit.
Btw, AikenDrum105 - liking the Super restoration thread on AlfaBB. Really nice work :)
I just put BF Goodrich G-Force Sport's on my '69 GTV twin-spark after following up recommendations on this thread. It's not re-registered yet, so I can't report on the behaviour, but it's worth noting that apparently BFG are moving out of road tyres to specialise in 4WD tyres.
Michellin has owned BFG since the early '90s.......as BFG is good at selling off road tyres & Michellin is better at selling car tyres, seems reasonable to change your retail profile, doesn't it? Same reason why the Cooper Avon Tyre Company uses the Mastercraft brand name for passenger car tyres in Oz.
Be careful of the quality of Asian made Michellin car tyres....... ;)
The Michelins/BFG's I've gotten in the past were made in Thailand, more than probably due to the fact of free trade agreement that exists between the two countries. The same deal that see's so many cars, tyres and parts shipped in from there....Seem to remember buying Pirellis made there as well... ;)
Never had any issues with quality, they've never needed big weights when being balanced...
Pity, if thats the case, BFG is getting out of road tyres. Would still probably choose them, soon, when my twin-carb has worn out the inside edges of the set on there already...Thats what happens with toe-out AND negative camber on the front!
Also, one of the reasons not ever gone for the asymetric Yoko's like the c-drive or 539's before them. (Anyone remember the Pirelli P77?) Dont really want a more open tread design/softer compound on the inside edges. Brigdestone adrenalins, while being asymetric dont increase the void ratio on the 'inside' edges, and are designed (according to their blurb) for front wheel drive cars or cars that run neg camber ...
Has anyone else noted that even in 'independent' tyre test in Wheels and the like, that one year the tyre ( of the same aspect ratio) that wins over another, the situation is reversed in a following years test? This relates specifically to the G-Force Sport and Pirelli P6000...Yes, Different cars and test track, and drivers, and....but...
I put a set of 195.55 x15 Marangonis on my Super at the end of October and have been pleased with them so far. Little road noise and brilliant in the wet.
The 195.55 x 15 was as near as I could get to the original rolling diameter for speedo accuracy.
Previous tyres were Yokohama (same size) but so far the Marangoni are a better tyre in conditions encountered so far.
Barry
Marangoni tyres can be sourced from Mauceri Motors in Clayton, Stuckey Tyres in Brunswick and a few other independent suppliers around Melboburne.
Quick update on the Falkens, now that I've put a few Ks on them and thrashed them around Winton.
On the road they're great - good grip, good in the wet. Dunno about noise - can't really hear the tyres over the wind, the webers and the exhaust :)
Around Winton they did what I wanted - very progressive, and gave plenty of feel. I had no problem feeling the car begin to break away, and any slide was very controllable. Grip was ok, but started to go away after 3 or 4 laps. Probably didn't help that I was a bit rough, and pushing pretty hard. I used 39psi all round (cold), which translated to about 43 front/45 rear hot, and I ended up bleeding a bit of pressure out of the backs over the day. Turn in and front grip through the corners was very good, but the back was inclined to step out.
At some point I'll probably upgrade to something that is grippier on the track, but for the moment the Falkens basically do what I want, and I'm pretty happy.