i'm currently looking after dads 1750 gtv and had a bit of a blast around some good ol' tassie roads on the weekend. on tuesday night i went to look at buying another alfetta gtv (too much rust, so no go) and it go me to thinking: What is the best driving alfa?
the 105 was extremely communicative, although the rear end was a bit too soft and didnt inspire comfience. the 116 that i drove had good rear feel, but the front end wasnt as i remember from mine, being rather floaty. both of them are not blessed with real power, but are ample for spirited driving on public roads.
these are the only series of alfa's i've driven so figured you guys might have other options.
That's a tougher call than you might realise as it immediately poses other questions like, in what application? Touring, hillclimbs, racing, commuting ?? Add to it driver personality traits, aesthetic preferences for styling, power and other expectation and you begin to get a nightmare cocktail.
I can easily see this thread movig into the other one where we are bagging each other.
Check the badge on the front of the car - if is says Alfa Rmeo you can't go wrong :-)
QuoteThat's a tougher call than you might realise
MD i had already thought that it was a big topic and figured that we're all good people here, so no need to get personal, and lets face it no one is really going to be wrong as it does come down to personal preference.
QuoteCheck the badge on the front of the car - if is says Alfa Rmeo you can't go wrong :-)
Shane thats a good sweet answer, but i still feel you may have an alfa that you like driving more? gtv6 vs 75?
still i think my alfetta is better to do hillclimbs in than dads 1750 and it is also a better commuter. not sure about a spirited drive on good tassie roads though. i'll pass judgement on that when my gv i finished :)
My 147 gta I picked up yesterday has got to be up there with one of the most fun alfa's I have driven. So I would say the best driving alfa is the one you own at the time ;).
I have a '79 GTV and a '06 159 (for sale); both are great to drive while they have completely different characters. It's hard to wipe the smile off my face given a windy road and little traffic.
Scuzzy
Probably where I am coming from is that ALL alfas are satisfiyng to drive off the show room floor and much more so than most other cars for a similar price range at the time of the model release.
Hence a driving enthusiast would opt to buy an Alfa as opposed to a gadget filled Jap car for the sake of the driving experience. That divide has now been bridged to a large extent and that's one the things that new Alfa models need to overcome but that's an issue for another topic.
Given that all Alfas in good order are satisfying to drive, the differences in their level of competence only comes around ON THE LIMIT of power, torque, brakes and handling. This is where it gets sticky as for normal road applications this would be way beyond losing your license speed and go straight to jail.
So we are now talking racing where shortfalls in the manufacturing design are sorted but once done,in my opinion, the transaxles have the edge in handling only. Other parameters can be levelled amongts all models by modification so power, braking etc can be on a par.
So theoretically if one model has a handling advantage over others whilst all other aspects are equal then you would expect that transaxles would win everytime. Fat chance ! There are always many more aspects to the game than just that.
Quote from: shane wescott on February 11, 2010, 10:48:02 PM
Check the badge on the front of the car - if is says Alfa Romeo you can't go wrong :-)
Because of this...
Hey Scott. You indeed have asked a very big question, however, to give you a little more insight as to your question. Over the years I have driven and/or travelled in Giulia sedans, Giulia sprint Gts, 1750 GTVs (including mine over a 12 year period), GT Juniors, 1750 and 2L Berlinas, 1600 Duetto, 2L Spider, various Alfetta 1.8 and 2L sedans and GTVs, suds, sud sprint, 33s, 75s, 164, modern GTV, GTV6, Spider, 156s (inc my '03 sportwagon), and a 159. So have a little Alfa history to work with.
They are all different in terms of performance, handling and feel, and furthermore each car felt different even if of the same model. For instance my 1750 GTV feels completely different to the 1750 GTV that my brother in law owned. There are probably a number of reasons for this but the real factor includes specification and condition (ie. its maintenance history). You need to consider that both the 105 and 116 Alfas are now somewhere between 45 -32 years old !! A lot can happen to a car over that time frame.
In the case of the 1750 GTVs I mentioned, mine has the original springs but has Koni yellows, and rebuilt suspension, plus alloys 6x14 and Pirelli P6000s, but stock motor, and 2nd gear synchro crunch. My car being a series 1. My brother in laws was a series 2, in totally original condition, that being tired original suspension, and drivetrain, but had the 10548 cams, steel rims and skinny non low profile tyres. Even factors such as the different seat types makes a difference as to relationship between pedals, steering wheel to the body. And because of this my GTV felt easier to heel toe gear change.
Again having driven many Alfettas over the years, they too can differ quite markedly. The sedan feels quite different to the GT/GTV and then again a GTV6 would feel different to the 4 cyl Alfettas.
I have always loved every Alfa I have driven. There is something about Alfas that does this to you. They all have such different characteristics and it also comes down to also perhaps what you need at a time in your life.
I seriously would love a GTV6 but at the moment, having the 156 sportwagon is extremely practical, though it is no sportscar.
Finally to compare the differences between a 105 and 116 GTV much has been written about this in numerous car mags in the past. However, I will say that in trying to assess the differences between a 105 and 116 GTV there are some specific factors which do stand out. The 105 does feel more vintage in comparison to a 116. and yet, I would take a 105 gearbox over a 116, as a good condition 105 box feels so precise, and strong, whereas a 116 box from my experience always feels vague, and a bad one is simply horrid. In terms of handling, I really like the feel of a 105 over a 116, as to my mind the car generally feels like an extension of myself. In a 116 they tended to feel more cumbersome, though the steering effort in a 116 is lighter than a 105. The 105 GTV can also feel twitchy in the wet. I have never driven a fully sorted 116 GTV and that could be another matter.
In terms of power I am not sure there is a lot of difference between the two models.
If I maybe a little personal here in comparing your Dad's car, which I am familiar with say in comparison to mine or an even better condition 105GTV I am sure you would be more than a little surprised at just how good they can be.
Ultimately both are old cars and if you compare these GTVs say to a new ('99) model there is a quantum leap in feel. Of course the new GTVs are FWD but the build quality is so different, and of course the features they have are so different compared to the old cars. It then comes down to simply what you want and/or can live with/without (ie. are you a new car driver or happy to be an old car driver).
If the latter, as I suspect you are, given the Alfas you were talking of, if I had the choice, I would prefer a fully sorted 105 GTV rather than a 116 but that is simply me. To me the perfect 105 GTV would be a GTA rep as built by Alfaholics. ;D But I also want a GTV6 for that engine note !
I reckon living in Tassie, you don't want something that sits too low, like a modern GTV. The bottom would be full of scrapes and scratches in no time at all.
I can't add much to this, but I was quite amaised by the differance in feel between my 75 Potenziata and my uncles old GTV6.
Admitedly it was only a squirt 'around the block' in the GTV6, and the suspension was old and worn out, it was to low and soft and the gear change had more slop that the cafateria at work. But the lower gearing, the rorty 2.5ltr with long secondary pipes (no cats) much lower overal weight, less weight in front of the front axle line, all had it feeling like a completely different car.
I would have loved to enjoy ;) both cars across my favourite piece of road, but my uncle sold the GTV6.
well everyone is different matt francis will say alfetta sedan followed by twin spark 75 other prefer gtv's my self and THE sheldon will take 90's ill drive a 90 before any other alfa except the sz and the 8c but i dont see this happening unless i buy and import one
Opened a can of worms here-
The truth is-best driving alfa is the one youre driving now,as x example-
My first alfa== 33 four wheel drive wagon 85 with the beaut twin webbers,driving that was unbeliveable,in the wet engaged in 4x4 was magic,
then came the 156 sportswagon= magic and smooth as silk,going round corners would not budge,a real good solid acr that handled beautifully,
next was a 33ti 85 mod silver with sunroof,had those magic headrests and the classic jaeger instruments(same as the 4x4) plus those awesome telephone dial alloys,really got to appreciate this car over the years,many runs to the snow and i was in love,again handling was magic,
next the alfetta sportiva 81 model,it was red with sunroof and those magic veglia borletti instruments,never was a better balanced car,it had such good poise on the road,i was transformed,not only in corners or winding roads but even down the highway it was truly unbeliveable how good this was,
last but not least was the 166 with incredible 3 litre 24 v motor,
going up the illawarra highway going round those corners,felt like a little sportscar,had no roll at all,engage sport mode or man sport and it felt and sounded like a ferrari-truly a revelation,
now i am waiting for my next adventure in a gtv 6 of the 80s,i am sure it will be another miracle of italian engineering.grazie ciao
This topic has given me an idea. Sure we love our Alfas whichever one we own but if we are 100% honest with ourselves, we know there are aspects that range from great to crap and in between. In the spirit of informing pending new owners and those not mechanically inclined, we should start a new topic that makes a list of the principle good points and outlines the remedies to fix the not so good aspects.
That could give people a better idea if they are prepared to either put up with the demerrits or go the whole hogg and fix the car to make it truly a complete pearler instead of pretender.
Of course this would only work if people don't get too precious when a specific model gets a pasting on its way to glory.
What thinks guys?
I think this really comes down to how we personally like to set up our cars and what sort of use that we set them up for. Maybe this should be the basis for MD's proposed new thread.Yes this is a good idea to share the love ;D
The only people who say other than a Montreal are those who haven't driven one.
Doug
Quote from: MD on February 13, 2010, 09:08:15 AM
This topic has given me an idea. Sure we love our Alfas whichever one we own but if we are 100% honest with ourselves, we know there are aspects that range from great to crap and in between. In the spirit of informing pending new owners and those not mechanically inclined, we should start a new topic that makes a list of the principle good points and outlines the remedies to fix the not so good aspects.
That could give people a better idea if they are prepared to either put up with the demerrits or go the whole hogg and fix the car to make it truly a complete pearler instead of pretender.
Of course this would only work if people don't get too precious when a specific model gets a pasting on its way to glory.
Honesty and dedicated (brand of) car nut aren't 2 words that get used together very often.
There doesn't seam to be much objectivity amongst the 'dedicated' crowd of any breed of car enthusiasts.
"It's a/an (insert your automotive bias here), so there for it must be fantstically, amazingly brilliant! And no one else can say or prove otherwise! But, can someone tell me how I can improve the ********/reduce the *******/fix the *******?"
I think what MD is sujesting is a fantastic idea, but it needs to be done with honesty rather than emotion.
Quote from: Doug Gould on February 13, 2010, 01:07:12 PM
The only people who say other than a Montreal are those who haven't driven one.
Doug
Sadly that's most people. Obviously they wouldn't be special if we all had though.
+1 for MD's idea. Excellent thought.
First thing that comes to mind is how s*** the interior is in the 75's. (or perhaps just mine...) Comfy and in my mind sensibly laid out, yet obviously not built to last for anything more than 10 years...
Quote from: dehne on February 12, 2010, 08:06:48 PM
sheldon will take 90's ill drive a 90 before any other alfa
Sheldon, where are you? I'm expecting you say GTV6 or SZ if you won lotto.
Quote from: Doug Gould on February 13, 2010, 01:07:12 PM
The only people who say other than a Montreal are those who haven't driven one.
I'll take you up on that offer one day, I could always do with a Monty in the collection.
Back on topic though ...
I love the Sprint on the track, I love the the 105 on an early morning run ... I refuse to pick a favorite, as a good parent should never admit.
i must say i'm touched by everyones dedication to all models!
i do suppose in reality it is like asking what is the best ferrari/lambo/etc. everyone loves the one they have and admires the rest. when i tell people that i have an alfa, they always seem to be jealuos to some extent ;)
in a similar vein to MD, i think i could start another thread, with describe you best drive. perhaps this will yield some great stories, good reading and lots of memories.
and yes dave dads 1750 is rusting away on my front lawn, looks much worse than when youd've last seen it :(. but the mechanicals are pretty sorted, good for a spirited drive south every now & then.
Hey Scott, indeed mate, there were some really inciteful and excellent responses to your question. No surprises there given how much we love our Alfas ;D But yes a little personal bias and even perhaps squinting through rose tinted glasses sometimes can hide the imperfections !!
Sounds like another decent thread to start, I can imagine there are many tall stories of ones favourite road trip/drive out there just waiting to be told.
Oh sad to hear about your Dad's GTV, I must admit it wasn't looking too flash the last time I saw it, when ever that was, but good to know that at least the mechanicals are strong. A bit like my car, the only difference is that I became so sorry with it due to the rusty doors and crap paint, that I have it tucked up in the lockup garage I rent where it waits with my 124 Sport (which is in nice condition), for the time when I can restore it. At least it is out of harms way from rusting further. Do you guys live in the north now ???
The best driving Alfa is the one that best matches your driving ability.
John.
Aha. That explains everything. Now I know why I got the last pick and scored the one with the big key on top. Never could figure out why it was only good for 100 metres before a rewind !! ;D ;D
...yeah too true John.
I've recently bought a 147ts as a daily driver, and love it. Compared to my Alfetta it is so much more responsive on the throttle, quick steering, good gearshifts and very little bodyroll. It's such a great car for everyday spirited driving. But, Pushing a bit harder the Alfetta is ultimately more fun in my view. Maybe because it makes you work harder, but it so much easier to feel whats going on underneath. And it is rear wheel drive. Never thought I'd say that!