I have been thinking about replacing the standard air filter/housing with a more 'open' system. Has anyone any firsthand experience with alternatives? I have been thinking about carby trumpets with individual socks or twin paper elements with chrome base and top plates (K&N style). Will these improve performance or just increase noise?
Also are there any 'simple' ways of converting the original distributor points to a electronic type using parts off another Alfa model or am I better off going for a lumenition, etc system. Also do you think this is a worthwhile modification?
Any comments would be greatly appreciated. Also if you do have any of these kind of parts available for sale could you please contact me.
Thanks a lot.
You could try the Pipercross/Itg dome filter with trumpets, seems popular on 105s maybe someone could give feedback
Prova if yours is an 85 GTV hasnt it already got electronic ignition as standard?
Becaue performance topics have by far the greatest responses on most enthusiast Forums what I am about to say is undoubtedly going to be completely contradicted by the very next post. However, you should make up your own mind having digested all the responses.
1 The air intake should be from a cold source point. The 105 exhaust is on the opposite side of the intake. The V6 has an exhaust manifold on both sides and therefor it needs to move the point of intake to the front and not to any side. This is already done by the factory.
2 The original airbox and filter will flow over 300hp and with minor mods it will flow up to 520hp. If your engine doesn't make that sort of power then a modification is not required.
3 Finally, any modification (other than cosmetic) made to the induction side should be done in harmony with the exhaust side as the two operate as one tuned system. Making mdofications without a complete plan for both is simply another way of making a donation to Kevins tax department.
Anotherwords. if it ain't broke -don't fix it.
Thanks guys for your replies.
Sorry for any confusion but my car is the 2.0 GTV. It also has points. Could I use a distributor from a later/different model?
Also while I am at it do earlier 105 cams make a noticeable difference? These are the kind of mods I am considering for the car - also extractors/exhaust. I have also read about longer inlet manifold runners - could you please share your thoughts as I am new to this engine.
I believe the car makes around 130hp from the factory with the kind of mods mentioned what kind of increase in power could
I expect.
Prova,
An 85 2ltr GTV 'should' be fitted with a breakerless distributor.
The Haynes manual states that they were fitted as standard from late 83.
Alfa used both Bosch and Marelli systems but I don't know if the Marelli came to Oz in the Alfetta.
My Sept 83 complianced GTV is fitted with the Bosch system.
Both these systems have a single, multiple core lead going to the distributor.
Whereas the older points system has a single lead going to a spade terminal on the distributor (Bosch).
If your car does indeed have points then to convert to the Bosch system all that should be required is.
i) Distributor
ii) Coil and Electronics module
iii) Cable loom between Distributor, Coil, and Electronics module.
Maybe your car has been converted at some point in the past back to a points system?
As for cams, those marked with a part number that starts with 10548 are generally thought to be the best of the standard Alfa cams for the 2ltr engine.
I believe that these were used in early Alfettas, as well as the 105 series.
Alan.
My March 82 complianced GTV 2.0 also had the Bosch electronic system.
From what I know 130hp (96kW) was for the mid 85 2 litre GTVs with the 10548 cams
update. The earlier cars with pollution spec 10520 cams popped out 122hp (89.8 kW)
Prova check your cams no.s maybe your car already has them if not no big deal they are relatively cheap to buy and install.
85 GTV airbox should be the one with a rectangular air filter .If it is a cylindrical airbox then this is off an earlier model. The other feature of 85 engine is the intake manifold is quite different there is no coolant return pipe above intakes. I agree with earlier scribes that 85 models have the excellent Bosch electronic ignition system. If you have'nt got these on your engine then it would appear your car may have been replaced with an older model engine.
Heres my two bobs worth.
Ignition- You can covert you points to electronic with an Ignitor system. Neat easy to install cost about $200. No need to replace coil as lower output points coils are suitable (do not use higher power electonic ignition coil). Downside is that if you leave ignition on without starting engine for more than about 20 secs you can easily burn the system out. I have ruined two lots in a race car!
Get the original Bosch system(distributor & matching coil and special connecting lead) it is ultra reliable in road and race applications your car will start much easier and plugs will not foul up AND no more points to replace!
AIR FILTER-If you take either the rectangular or cylindrical air box off and replace with trumpets and socks you will get more induction noise from the carbies.Road car is a matter of choice if you like to hear this noise.
If you are not doing anything with upgrading the Camshafts and extractors then I would not recommend ram tubes and socks.
You can get more air flow if you get a set of K&N filters for each pair of carbies, min filter depth 65mm. Also get a set of emulsion tubes for your Dellortos that came out in the earlier models the last # on tube is 8 instead of 10. Min gain of 10BHP.
Come to think of it the above might be worth half a crown!
Regards
Hi and thanks for all the replies and advice. I am really new to this model of car and I am basically trying to get my head around what I have got and what I could/should do to it. My car is an 85 model and a Haymes manual came with the car. It claims to cover all Alfetta models including GTV from 1973-1987. It only describes the ignition systems as "of conventional mechanical contact breaker distributor type". I have since found a 'supplement to the owners manual - Australia Version' which came with the original papers. This describes the car as having "a breakerless ignition system". It appears this system still uses points? If so how often do these need checking/replacing etc?
I have found a supplier of pertronix aftermarket ignition mods and they have a 'electronic conversion' listed for this model. Is this correct or do you think they are referring to the mechanical earlier system? If it relaces the points would it be worthwhile anyway? Please help I am really confused!
On a clearer note I have purchased a pair of oval K&N Style air filters which are 83mm deep and a set of 43mm long alloy trumpets from the UK (Eurocarb). They recommended the combination and I am looking forward to fitting these up.
Thanks Martyn on the info about the emulsion tubes that sounds like an awesome modification. If anyone has a set to sell I would be very appreciative (also earlier cams). Can these be fitted without removing the carbs - simple/difficult?
Thanks again to you all and maybe I might meet a couple of you at the FIAT car show (Melbourne) in February.
Prova,
The Haynes manual chapter 13 section 6 describes the electronic ignition system.
Figures 13.23 and 13.24 are diagrams of the distributors used in each type.
I have also attached a picture of the components of the Bosch system after a bit of a rummage around in the shed.
Underneath the coil at it's base is the electronic module, with the large black multi connector on the right side.
Notice that the lead which connects to the distributor also comes from the multi connector on the electronics module.
If you have a standard points system this wire would come directly from one of the coil terminals.
Alan.
Alan thanks so much for your post and all the trouble you went to. You have finally cleared it all up for me. I completely missed that section of the Haymes manual. Yes my car has electronic ignition! Are these basically maintenance free?
Can anyone tell me where the cam 'numbers' are stamped? Also can I buy new Dellorto emulsion tubes (if I can't source them second hand)? If so what part number do I specify '10'? and where can I buy them?
Once again thanks all.
If the distributor is in good condition then once the timing is set this should be fairly maintenance free.
Rotor buttons and caps will need replacing from time to time just like conventional points systems.
That said the first electrical problem I had with my Alfetta was the pickup coil in the Bosch distributor failing.
Damn German engineering, boy did I wind up the BMW driving boys at work up over that one.
The part numbers for the cam shafts are cast (are they cast?) into the blank in raised figures between the lobes.
They are quite large and easily spotted with the cam cover off the engine, might just need to turn the engine over till the numbers are facing up.
The numbers quoted earlier are the first 5 digits of the part numbers.
Alan.
Prova,
Cam numbers are in between lobes 3 & 4 as in the pic below. Sorry bout the picture quality
Alans spot on about the electronic dizzy. Apart from routine maintence (Cap, rotor) only had one ignition module go in the GTV in 5 years as a daily driver. In the 105 with the same set up never had a problem.
Pep
Prova - Hi Renn
I have a photo of the emulsion tubes & a site to buy them (about $20 each + postage) - drop me an email (bonkfrog@bigpond.net.au) and I'll send info.
Cheers
John
My filters and trumpets arrived today and they are already fitted - really happy with the outcome. The car feels much more urgent and responsive (and its not just the noise). John I have sent you a email in regards to the emulsion tubes thanks for your generous offer. Very keen to fit them.
I need some sort of oil breather filter any thoughts on this most appreciated. I have been thinking of the small chrome aftermarket filter that you can find in performance shops.
I will post some photos of the car soon. Anyone hiding away a nice set of extractors - would be keen to buy them off you. Took the cast iron headers off a spare engine today - wow they carry some weight.
Next job remove the air con system - there goes 50 kg!
On the topic of Cam's, my road going coupe, has the polution spec cams and so does the spare head I have sitting there. But the engine in my sedan has cams with only the numbers 032000 printed on them. I know that engine had had some head work done by the local Alfa specialist some time ago.
Also Bonkfrog I would be interested in that site for the emulsion tubes as well.
Cheers, Joey.
Prova got a set of custom made extractors off an Alfetta sedan if your interested (should fit GTV shouldnt they?) bit rusty been sitting around for ages, how does $50 sound? Let me know if your interested.
Definitely interested (sounds very generous actually). I think you guys are looking after me! I have sent you a private message regarding the extractors.
No worries sent you a response
Cheers
Pep
Hi guys I have the possibility of buying a pair of cams with the code number 105200320000. I just want to make sure if these are the cams I am after. Through all of your input I have found a supplier of new emulsion tubes the choice is broad what do you think would be the optimum for my engine the 8's or another? The car will be running earlier cams, extractors and the new air filters/trumpets.
The cam number you listed are probably the ones you have already. If you are after the slightly warmer ones look for some beginning with 10548. Don't expect a huge difference, they are after all still a factory camshaft. If you want something serious, you would have to speak to Vin Sharp.
Before you go and buy anything though, you have checked the numbers on your current cams right? It was my understanding that an '85 model should probably have the 10548's already.
Re reading that it makes not much sense. Clarification.
An 85 model should have 10548's. Is my understanding.
IF it has the 10520032's (as the earlier 2L 116 series cars had), then get some 10548's or better.
Thanks - I better check the cams I have! Will I need to replace the cam cover gasket if I do this? Hows my understanding? The early, early 2.0 cams are good - pollution cams not so good - but in 1985 good again?
Man I have a lot to learn.
Plucked the cams out of my spare engine today, the printing has been grinded off but compared to standard cams they are noticeably wider. Now to work out how to install them :-\ (sorry not trying to hijack your thread Prova, just seems we are working on similar things :D
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb250/joeytavora/cams001.jpg)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb250/joeytavora/cams002.jpg)
Joey those cams might be a regrind of the standard 105200320000 cams as the last numbers 032000 are still on there but the 10520 has been grinded off, because theyre no longer 10520 cams I guess.
I know Pace can regrind the standard 10520 cams into a '711' cam that is more agressive than 10548 and still quite streetable, this is what Ive heard best to speak to Vin Sharp.
Prova - If you find your cams are not 10548 then maybe this is an option
Cheers
Pep
I have mentioned it before, but I had a 1984 GTV back in 1986 and Lorenzo the head mechanic at Alfa Australia told me to retard either the inlet camshaft or exhaust by 1 tooth and you get 96kw compared to 89. These were for the 10548 cams to meet the emission reg's then for Australian. The European cars didn't have as stringent reg's as us then.
I did it and the difference was amazing. I just can't remember if it was the exhaust camshaft or inlet camshaft. I am sure Steve at Randell Perkins would remember. I will try to find out. It was really easy to do and it is really worth doing , the cheapest power gain you will ever get.
'Carjunky' you keep on coming up with the goods. (I ordered a set Bilstein B4's last night) Really keen to find out about the camshaft adjustment!
Don't know where i heard it, but i heard exhaust cam.
Joey
Here's that site. There may be someone in Aust who sells all the Dellorto parts, but I haven't found one yet.
http://www.dellorto.co.uk/merchandise/products_details.asp?PartNo=7772&CategoryID=1&PartsectionID=1
Cheers Bonkfrog
Hey guys, dredging up an old one here. Wanting to get some easy hp for the old girl and found this thread on emulsion tubes. Its states that the ones finishing in .8 are better than .10. Mine are .7. Will going to a .8 actually be an upgrade? I have 10548 cams and pace extractors and thr rest stock as far as i know. Any suggestions? Maybe its already had a proper tune for this etc.
Cheers,
DB