Ok i have a GTV6 and a 3L 12 valve is going in approx monday or tuesday. then rego by friday is the plan. now just a currious question. this should have around 160 kw correct?
What are some minor Modifications i can make to increase this at least another 40kw .. but leaving it NA . As i can not legal drive it turbo charged.
thanks :):)
3.0 V6 12v V6 2959 cc 141 kW (192 PS) 261 Nm (192 ft·lbf) @ 4900 rpm 8.1 230 km/h 1987–1989
3.0 V6 12v (cat) V6 2959 cc 135 kW (184 PS) 261 Nm (192 ft·lbf) @ 4900 rpm 8.1 230 km/h 1990–1992
3.0 V6 12v Super V6 2959 cc 132 kW (180 PS) 255 Nm (188 ft·lbf) @ 4400 rpm 8.0 230 km/h 1992–1995
3.0 V6 QV 12v V6 2959 cc 147 kW (200 PS) 274 Nm (202 ft·lbf) @ 4400 rpm 7.7 237 km/h 1990–1992
Nope not 160 sorry
John.
Minor mods you can make for 40kw do not exist.
For example a set of 164 S cams will set you back a $1000.00 gives you about 5 to 7 hp there are no cheap ALFA mods.
John.
Im getting the engine out of a 164 . so im guessing its the 141kw one. and ive heard the alfas dont tend to like to increase comp by shaving heads etc. does any1 know what a 164 3L 12 valve run? is it a 9 :1 comp?
also when i put the 3 Litre in , should i use a BMW 6 cyclinder AFM ? or my 2.5 one? ive heard the BMW AFM is the way to go?
So you've upgraded the driveline, suspension, brakes and tyres, ready for the extra power?
John is right, there are no cheap hp upgrades for a V6. Go through Greg Gordon's site and do all the preventative maintenance he recommends before you do anything else, and you might get 5 hp, and that will cost bugger all. He also has a section about putting the BMW AFM on.
Seriously dude, if you wanted a cheap car that goes fast in a straight line, you bought the wrong car.
And it sounds like you're quite young? I would be getting some experience behind the wheel, and on the track, before I got any more power than a stock 3L. But that's just me being an old git I suppose.
Good luck with it anyway mate. Take it up the hills with the stock 3 litre engine and I think you'll find it has more than enough power.
Quote from: Sheldon Mcintosh on October 04, 2009, 02:26:39 PM
Take it up the hills with the stock 3 litre engine and I think you'll find it has more than enough power.
You couldn't of said that any better. 3L are great on the road. As far as driveline/brakes and so on, they all handle the extra power with no worries. The only thing which would make a 3L even better is a twinspark gear box! Thats next on the list!!
ok listen, Brakes and suspention are already done. except before any driveline becomes the issure i need the engine in there first. and because im dealing with a bunch of morons (MILANO MOTORS) . they keep extending the time for this engine its been 2 weeks and they dont even have the 164 they were going to pull it out off.
the only reason why i want around the 180k at the fly is so it just has tat extra kick when i bring it to the circuit not for any other reason. Atm im driving a 166 and ill tell u know that 166 will blow the 2.5 in a staright line .. its not what im after if it was id keep on driving this. i just like to know i have it there. and i want to keep it as NA as possible. if i wanted big modifications i have Two Garret T4s sitting in the garage. And as far goes as experiences. theirs alot here. if u havent seen the 75 that was in the family . that had 425 hp and went to sandown a few times. Dad use to have a Black GTV 2 litre turbo charged with 350 horses. we use to have 2 alfa suds . a 1.8 liter and 2 litre. a 105 with around 400 hp. .. and various other alfas. So when it comes to alfas. its something we have a good idea about.. not saying we know everything but we do have some experience. if we didnt we wouldnt be doing the 3L conversion ourselves.
WHEN YOU GET THE ENGINE RING POWERCHIP AND GET THE TO PUT A CHIP IN IT MY MATE DID IT TO HIS 164 AND DIFFERENCE WAS HUGE IT MIGHT BE THAT BIT EXTRA YOU ARE AFTER
Dehne :) .. thank you i will have to llook into it :D .. do you have any idea how it works? just remapping or?
just remapped i think but ^#&( it was quick
It's a shame that 75 turbo with 400hp wasn't that quick
Hey turboalfa,
Who did you speak to at Milano? I know they can stuff around at times but they arent morons they can be pretty good, Marc is a good bloke but can be a grumby bastard, but he means well, if not speak to Vince, im sure they can help you out. Tell them Pep sent you ;D (theyll probably tell you to get......only kidding!)
And with this GTV6 I understand youd like more sqiurt but even the standard 164 engine is good for 132kw and by modern standards a GTV6 isnt that heavy at 1180 - 1250kg (depending) which is the same as a new corolla or less than a 147. So youd get a power to weight of around 9.5 - 10kg/kw which is good going straight out of the box, and it should be a lot of fun, more than any modern car tham Ive driven lately. 180 kw at the flywheel will be expensive but maybe some massaging in the form of PACE extractors etc might losen a few HP, and add to the excitment.
Like I said to you last year when you wanted to turbo the Twinspark enjoy the car for what it is
Have you done many track days ?
Good luck let us know how you go
Domenic - you always seem to have a great avatar pic !
Cheers
Pep
if you know it all, and you can do it all by yourselves, then why are you even asking...lol just my 2 bob. not having a go at you, but we were all once very young and thought we knew it all. ofcourse we all want the most power we can possibly get our hands on for as little cost and effort, but then we wake up and have to realise what we started with wasnt all that bad to begin with. think about it, less power equals less brekeages equals more driving time and isnt that what we all want. my race car is pretty quick and i too sometimes think to myself how good the old days of my 100hp 2l giuletta were. my opinion is the car is only as fast as the driver. now after saying all of that if i were you id simply begin with a simple freshen up while your new motor is out, with no real mods but just making sure its as fresh and reliable as you can get it, and make sure its actually making the standard 150rwhp. then id work out from there as my base while in the meantime you are driving the thing.
dom always a classic.
hey pep . i have pace extracters and they are coated in Hpc.:) .. that gave it a lil bottom end torque it needed in the 2.5:) .. also dont mean to be rude .. but just the way the sheldon spoke , annoyed me . and made his response sound like he was having a go at me. and i cant stand people that just put people down instead of helping them through what they want and giving ideas... its all i asked for . was ideas
i guess thats the problem with internet forums and for that matter stuff like sms messages. they sometimes can be misunderstood or not interpreted as they were meant to be. i personally vote for the good old letter lol it seams noone ever sends a letter to say hello anymore, its always just a bill. maybe i need a pen pal, like a prisoner or something hahaha
anyway i cant speak for everybody but i dont think anyone is putting you down, just opinions at the end of the day, im sure anything can be done just a matter of how much time and money you want to invest in to it, and if its worth it to YOU. i for one would like it if there were millions of really fast alfas going around. as for your project im sure youll decide on the right thing in the end, after taking all these things into acount.
Hey Pep,
Thanks,
I have heaps, just some members don't like the look of them...
I dunno, since when was a naked chick with an alfa badge not nice to look at??
I guess the club members are getting a bit old......
oh well...i'll just keep them for my private collection.
turboalfa
Give us your budget, target, hp, and your intended use for the car then we can help you further.
However,you need to be realistic as the Ignis Group A GTV6 (2.5) only had 187-198 kW @ 7250 running 11.1 compression ratio.(75.0 kw/litre).
Don't forget it's all about the power to weight!
John.
Quote from: turboalfa on October 06, 2009, 12:33:56 AM
hey pep . i have pace extracters and they are coated in Hpc.:) .. that gave it a lil bottom end torque it needed in the 2.5:) .. also dont mean to be rude .. but just the way the sheldon spoke , annoyed me . and made his response sound like he was having a go at me. and i cant stand people that just put people down instead of helping them through what they want and giving ideas... its all i asked for . was ideas
Wow, sorry you took it that way, and if you thought that was having a go then I seriously suggest you don't frequent too many other internet forums, cos that was nothing.
I was trying to give you some advice based on my experiences, next time I'll make sure and just tell you what you want to hear.
You'd do well to read David's comments carefully, he makes a lot of sense.
Anyway, good luck with the car, but if I were you I'd be spending money on getting some driving time, rather than horsepower.
sorry sheldon... and david .your right. im just decided to put the 3 L in there with a full motec ECU or one of the other cheaper brands . and hopefully hit the small achievement im after. and john .. money isnt the option im just looking at ideas and what paths to go down. to get that extra horses. . and im not using the 2.5 remember. im using a 3l 12 valve. my uncle just bought a e36 m3. and i was supprise at the power it has . for a 3 L it had 230kw! . was very pleased . althought its close to 10 years newer. and i just wanted to see if any1 can pull that kind of thing out of thses engines. was just curious. although his turbo charging the m3 . it will be just crazy after that. but yes i was just amazed at how much they pulled out of that engine. and for sure blueprinting etc will give me a few extra horses as well.
For what you'd spend on a 12v and Motec you could just get a 24v......
Quote from: turboalfa on October 06, 2009, 11:22:20 PM
for a 3 L it had 230kw!
Quote from: turboalfa on October 06, 2009, 11:22:20 PM
turbo charging the m3 . it will be just crazy after that.
I'd be interested in knowing the logic behind that, from all reports (without my alfa hat on here) the bmw is one of, if not the greatest 6 cylinder package available.
What's the intended use of the m3? I know this is a diversion from the topic and marque, but maybe you could post something into the off-topic section about it when it happens, like sheldon did with the m5 v10 into the e30 m3 (as great as it was, still a bit disturbing).
BTW: Enjoy you little project, whichever way you go.
Cheers
it has always been my opinion that the bmw engines are pretty impressive. my only problem with the bmws has always been the fact that every track day i have been too, and it may just be a co-incidence, but they never seem to do more then a few laps/sessions before coming into the pits with a 75-esque christmas tree warning on the dash, and going into limp home modes, and eventually seen limping home a bit after that. and then for the most part considering the amount of power they have the lap times arent exactly mind boggling but that could always just be the type of drivers that are attracted to those types of cars. therfore my point being that yes the m3 may have 230kw, be an excellent car with an excellent motor, but will it last if it was driven all day in standard trim with an exceptional driver, maybe maybe not. now we add a turbo to the mix and i really doubt its the best idea, maybe for a drag car or a fast road car, but on the track i think itll be more of a 2-3 lap sort of car then go home, so for me dont really see the point of it all apart from bragging rights. having said all of this kudos for undertaking such a project and it would be quite an achievement bc even though we always see these things done overseas on the internet it must be remembered that these cars arent driven for 6 months of the year during their winter and it seems evrybody has 100000s to spend on their cars over there as all you see is carbon this and titanium that, so i hope your uncle has a deep wallet lol.
Just drop a 3.2 v6 24 v out of a 156 GTA in your GTV6 ;D.
You will have a car with approx 185 kW weighing around 1180 kg with a similar power to weight to your uncles e36 M3 230 kW 1460 kg's.(You can pick up these motors for $3500-$4000.00 with 50000km )
Just another option.
John
Quote from: JOHN G on October 07, 2009, 08:55:28 PM
Just drop a 3.2 v6 24 v out of a 156 GTA in your GTV6 ;D.
You will have a car with approx 185 kW weighing around 1180 kg with a similar power to weight to your uncles e36 M3 230 kW 1460 kg's.(You can pick up these motors for $3500-$4000.00 with 50000km )
Just another option.
John
Where have you seen GTA motors for that sort of price? If I'd been able to find one around that range, I probably wouldn't have rebuilt my 3.0 24v after its bearing failure... 24v V6s do go very nicely in a GTV6 though!
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Where have you seen GTA motors for that sort of price? If I'd been able to find one around that range, I probably wouldn't have rebuilt my 3.0 24v after its bearing failure... 24v V6s do go very nicely in a GTV6 though!
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I can buy two at that price atm one with 50,000 and one with 62,000.
I will tell you after I buy the next one because you asked so nicely ;)
Seriously,insurance auctions or wreckers jekyll and hyde I usually only look at side impact or rear impact cars you can buy the whole car for $4000.00 as a write off. There are two Alfisti making good money on ebay this way.
John
yeah they have about 40 wrecks now they had to move into a big shed and they are reasonably priced to
My experience with Alfa cars over the years has been that it was one of the few makes that were affordable and you could drive them off the show room floor unmodified and experience sheer driving pleasure. Cars that had a balance of power, handling, brakes,feedback, gear ratios and that something special that I have still to define but nevertheless produced a goofy grin behind the wheel.
This is not by accident and culminates from the Alfa philosophy and very talented people behind the scenes. It is all about balance.
If anyone thinks they can outsmart the original balance and up the ante, they better be sure they have the wallet to match to create the upgrade package. The key point here being the word package. If the engine has too much power for the chassis, they may become the next statistic. On the other hand an underpowered chassis will simply frustrate. How often have we seen these simple points overlooked?
My suggestion is to work from the end plan back (whatever that is).