http://www.pickles.com.au/damaged/vehicle/CP-08-85-Alfa-Romeo-Alfa-90-Sedan-5-Seats/itemid-1-202087169/lotid-0
Ha, "heavy panel damage."
Might make a good buy?
Good parts car maybe. Damaged headlight, that's $450 right there, but you may be able to replace the damaged indicator cover for cheaper if you're very lucky. $150 for the panel. Nice colour though, haven't seen one that colour before.
Interesting that the odo 'shows 26,000'. They do show the 100k's, so it's either been tampered with, done over a million kms, or is very low km.
Wish it was in Melbourne
And I'm not sure who's more 'tragic', 90 fans or Alfetta fans?
Can't really argue with that much.
But, be careful, one day i might make the natural progression and start buying up 90's. They could become a rarity if i got a collection of them like i do Alfettas at the moment!
Earlier today i found this picture i took at Spettacolo, and thought, damn, that's one nice looking car.
Is it too late for me?
QuoteAnd I'm not sure who's more 'tragic', 90 fans or Alfetta fans?
The Alfetta may be less sophisticated or perhaps put in another, the 90 is more sophisticated than it needs to be but in the final analysis, the sporty body lines of the Alfetta says a lot more about its heritage than the bland lines of the 90.
For the life of me I can't understand why sports cars need electric windows electric seat movers and two more tons of electric jock straps to justify it as a new model ! Aren't sports cars about power to weight?
Regrettably, the 90 represents this slide to nowhere and it's sales figures globaly certainly point to that...
What are you talking about man? The 90 is not a sports car, and was never intended to be. It's an 'executive' car, but with a sporting edge. The same way the GTV6 makes a terrible limousine.
The Alfetta has sporty lines but the 90 is bland? Now I've heard it all!!
PS the 90 weighs less than the GTV6 (supposedly), so I wouldn't worry too much about the weight. Oh, and it doesn't rust.
PS the 90 weighs less than the GTV6 (supposedly), so I wouldn't worry too much about the weight. Oh, and it doesn't rust.
[/quote]
No that's Crapola.
On both points.
Well, how can I argue with those facts?
Right you are Sir.
Is it my interpretation of text, or has what was intended as a bit of a personal joke turned into a full on, top gear Australia style, "lets all hate on 90's"?
I thought it was all in good humour. When you own a 90 you quickly grow a thick skin.
To be honest mate I love that people don't like them. When you can buy a quick, comfortable and reliable car for under $2000, with one of the best engines ever made, I'm happy for them to stay unloved. I'm still trying to kill my one, but two years of track work still hasn't done it.
That you can hassle Clubmans (admittedly with numpties driving them) around Winton is just a bonus!!
Sheldon,
If you take the top skin off a 90 and place it next to a GTV6 in the same guise, it's the same sports car.
When you have to invest the same bucks to maintain them, which one will realise the greater return over time? You work it out.
Wow I'd never thought of that before! ;) Although you'll probably find it would cost more to maintain the 90 because parts are so rare. This would also be why Guilia Supers, Berlinas and Alfetta sedans are so rare now, and it's a real shame.
I didn't buy my 90s with the thought of a return at the end of the day luckily, and the difference in purchase price between a 90 and a GTV6 would pay for about 10 years maintenance.
Oh yeah, and it's more fun passing GTV's on the track when you're in a 90 ;D
I believe in forum rules and try to observe them. At the same time I am not so intimidated by them so as not to express a genuine opinion about an issue without targetting any specific party.
I hope we are all grown up here enough to tolerate an opinion which is contrary to our own.
I have said all I need to say about the 90 model. No offence is intended. I hope all owners of this model continue to enjoy them.
For the record, over time, I have owned just about one of every model 105 and transaxle (including a 90)ever made. I feel that should give me some degree of credibility however humble that may be.
On a lighter note Sheldon, I look forward to dice with your 90 on the track one day with my TS powered Alfetta.
Quote from: MD on April 22, 2009, 07:34:08 PM
I believe in forum rules and try to observe them. At the same time I am not so intimidated by them so as not to express a genuine opinion about an issue without targetting any specific party.
I hope we are all grown up here enough to tolerate an opinion which is contrary to our own.
I have said all I need to say about the 90 model. No offence is intended. I hope all owners of this model continue to enjoy them.
For the record, over time, I have owned just about one of every model 105 and transaxle (including a 90)ever made. I feel that should give me some degree of credibility however humble that may be.
On a lighter note Sheldon, I look forward to dice with your 90 on the track one day with my TS powered Alfetta.
Hey man, no problem here. I've posted over 500 posts here, probably half of them have been defending my faith. I don't give a shit if someone thinks they're a bad car, everyone is welcome to an opinion. I love my car(s) and would defend everyone elses right to love theirs. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it would be a very boring world if everyone loved the same car. I think it's fun when a thread goes way off topic too.
And I also look forward to dicing with you, but I may need to do some suspension work on my car first. Come down to Phillip Island for 2010 next year and see if you can beat our Club's current fastest car, an Alfa 90!!
Take it easy buddy
Oh yeah, is that your car in your Avatar?
Oh yeah, in reply to another post with exemplary evidence, and I stand to be corrected here (which is why I put the "supposedly" in the original post because I always wondered about the quoted figures), but every stat sheet I've ever read has put the 90 at 1170kg and the GTV6 at 1210kg.
And I've never seen a 90 with rust, apart from tiny bits of rust on bolt off panels, or from bad repairs.
And yeah MD, transaxles rule!!! Until you need to work on the rear brakes. Or change a Donut
"forum rules"! I don't think I've written any - a novel idea, perhaps I should...
What would the club be without friendly jibe at another man's car? As a Sud driver I've become quite thick skinned at folk questioning my manhood for driving a front-wheel drive boxer engined rusty bucket of sh*te. Doesn't hurt at all any more *sniff*
This has been a great thread - I was hoping for a proper stoush but I've been sadly disappointed. I've been looking for a good excuse to ban someone (other than spammers). I did enjoy John G's contribution though - very well put and when he laid out the evidence like that how could anyone argue?
Yep we're all adults here (even Sheldon) - please don't hold back with your opinions. Transaxles rule!! (as long as they're in the front of a Sud!!!)
MD - I think you need to post some photos of your race car in the "Photos & Videos" board. I have a feeling I saw yours on the oval at Alfesta a year or so back...
QuoteOh yeah, in reply to another post with exemplary evidence, and I stand to be corrected here (which is why I put the "supposedly" in the original post because I always wondered about the quoted figures), but every stat sheet I've ever read has put the 90 at 1170kg and the GTV6 at 1210kg.
Makes sense to me - there is a LOT of steel on the inside of a GTV bodyshell, especially in the back end to stiffen around the windows/back of the roof pillars and hatch, which the 90 has a bit less of. Likewise around the nose (in front of the radiator), GTV seems to have a fair bit more steel in under the panels. I think the actual metal used on a 90s panels is also thinner than a GTV.... 90 doesn't have that huge hatch on it, just a little bootlid.... 90 has more doors, but they're smaller and lighter than a gtv, probably not much weight difference there....
Now I know you can't believe everything you read on the internet, but!
Carfolio.com lists;
1981 2.5 GTV6 at 1210Kg, and a 1984 3.0 GTV6 at 1138Kg
1985 90 2.5 V6 at 1170Kg, with weights for other models down to 1080Kg for a 1.8 and up to 1250Kg for the 2.4 diesel
Motor Magazine July 1987 list 90 Super at 1180Kg and GTV6 Grand Prix at 1184Kg.
Looks like at tie!
Alan.
A newbie comment but a goodie comment JohnG. Use of the word crapola instead of the word crap actually shows a slight sign of some endearment but I am sure that John got it wrong, he meant crap.How can you go past the Alfetta or 90? if the "square" Alfa's ring ya bell.
For the sqaure mob (and I'm am one of the sympathisers) I think everyones forgotten about the lovely guilietta, 2lt donk in a light rear wheel drive car, a bit 90, a bit alfetta and a bit 75 and rare (probably for the wrong reasons but alas still rare). If anyone's got some more info on the pedigree of this beauty let me know, love to get some info.
But come on guys whilst I must admit I have a soft spot for the squares the 105 takes the beers, at the moment anyway and you know I don't care about the track and neither should anyone else because when your on the twisties there are a number of Alfa's that will flowt your boat, although I do remember doing some special stuff on the track with the 17fidy, but ah no I am not goig to start that one oh no I dont want to be controversial, even if my cars only weighs 900 kegs.
1750GT
Quote from: Jekyll and Hyde on April 22, 2009, 09:01:02 PM
Makes sense to me - there is a LOT of steel on the inside of a GTV bodyshell, especially in the back end to stiffen around the windows/back of the roof pillars and hatch, which the 90 has a bit less of. Likewise around the nose (in front of the radiator), GTV seems to have a fair bit more steel in under the panels. I think the actual metal used on a 90s panels is also thinner than a GTV.... 90 doesn't have that huge hatch on it, just a little bootlid.... 90 has more doors, but they're smaller and lighter than a gtv, probably not much weight difference there....
All good points. The panels on the 90 are extremely light, and are purely bolt on affairs. I get the impression the panels of the GTV contribute to the strength of the car, but as usual I could be wrong. And as you say, with the huge hole in the back of the GTV there needs to be a bit of strengthening back there too. Probably equal amounts of glass in both cars, electric seats aren't as heavy as you'd imagine. Maybe 10 years of progress is worth something?
Interesting that the 3.0 GTV6 is listed so light. I assume that's the South African model, I thought the only difference was carbs instead of injection, but maybe there's more? No sunroof maybe?
I'd be more than happy with a tie, it's easy to lose weight out of a 90, less so with a GTV6. Not that it's a competition or anything....
I wish my car weighed 900kgs though 1750GT, that would make for a fun drive. Maybe one day. Robin's 90 must be close to that.
From six words I received those warm responses ::)
I currently own a '87 ALFA 90 SUPER and have two ALFA 90 parts cars ;)
Common mistakes when comparing weights are quoting Dry weight vs Kerb weight vs Shipping weight.
Quoting US specifications vs Australian specifications.
Power steering,cat converters,electric windows,clock,leather trim,sunroof,passenger side mirror,different wheels and tire combo's,fuel tank capacities.All weight adding combinations from different years.
Quote from: Alan Hopla on April 22, 2009, 09:07:32 PM
Now I know you can't believe everything you read on the internet, but!
Carfolio.com lists;
1981 2.5 GTV6 at 1210Kg, and a 1984 3.0 GTV6 at 1138Kg
1985 90 2.5 V6 at 1170Kg, with weights for other models down to 1080Kg for a 1.8 and up to 1250Kg for the 2.4 diesel
Motor Magazine July 1987 list 90 Super at 1180Kg and GTV6 Grand Prix at 1184Kg.
Looks like at tie!
Alan.
From the above I can interpret my SA GTV6 3.0 is 32kg's lighter than a ALFA 90 SUPER.My GTV6 Grand Prix's are lighter by a margin of 22kg's( if you deduct the 26 litres of petrol being the difference in fuel capacities) :)
I am not here to intentionally upset anyone.Just here to share knowledge and experiences with ALFA Romeos.
John
"I am not here to intentionally upset anyone.Just here to share knowledge and experiences with ALFA Romeos"
Exactly !!
What happens sometimes is that an opinion expressed is INTERPRITED as a direct afront to the PERSON and I guess that's when it unravels. The passion kicks in, the red mist comes down, reason goes out the window and the sheit fights start. Hopefully, I can steer around some of the skid marks. :)
I am very gradually getting know who's who in the zoo on this forum and enjoying the process. I hope to contribute a mixture of creativity,technicality, lunacy and more than 30 years of died in the wool Alfa driving passion.
On that note it's exit stage right....
Aw c'mon guys, it was just getting interesting and a bit of fun......and you go and get all PC and start the "I didn't mean to upset anyone" crapola ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Evan Bottcher on April 22, 2009, 08:53:24 PM
Transaxles rule!! (as long as they're in the front of a Sud!!!)
They usually are ;)
On that note it's exit stage left....
Maybe we need some scales at the next dyno day to put this to bed once and for all.
Quote from: Phil Baskett on April 23, 2009, 10:38:01 AM
Aw c'mon guys, it was just getting interesting and a bit of fun......and you go and get all PC and start the "I didn't mean to upset anyone" crapola ;D ;D ;D
Exactly!! No-one was getting offended were they, just a bit of light hearted discussion I thought. Tis true though, sometimes it's hard to get someone's meaning just from text. We need a sarcasm font. (copyright Arj Barker)
John, that is a seriously impressive garage you've got there.
Sheldon,
I need some edumecation on the quick Victorian 90. Know nothing about it. Wanna drop me a link. Always happy to know why.
It's running a 3.0 12v with about 190hp at the wheels, some pretty serious suspension, slicks, brakes off an RX7 from memory, caged, very light etc, etc. Don't know much more than that. Run by a chap who used to do Sports Sedans back in the 70s and 80s, in fact I believe he was National Champ one year. He's pretty quick and tidy.
Hopefully this link will work, a video of Jim Neilsen's old Guilietta (which I believe is up your way now?) chasing the 90. The 90 has had a few mods to it since this video was shot, it was still road legal back then (in spirit at least. Okay, it had lights).
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3901444608467549907 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3901444608467549907)
Note "Taxi" sign on bonnet, for all you 90 haters.. ;D
"Chasing the 90".... maybe you didn't watch the video long enough ? :) - - It was a joy to see Robin spear off ! Man, that Giulietta was an incredible car to drive, and its always great to be out on the track with Doherty, especially at Winton. Hopefully I can get my car back together soon! One of the great joys of owning a 'sedan' type Alfa like a Giulietta or a 90 is beating GTV6's.. I used to keep a list.
John, that is a seriously impressive garage you've got there.
[/quote]
Thanks mate! Refreshing comment most people tell me
"If you sold those Alfa's you would have a nice deposit for an investment property" :-\
Or
"If you sold those Alfa's you could buy a decent Ferrari " :o
I reply with the mature "JOG ON BLOOOOOP"
That 90 "TAXI" is the business,very nice!
jimnielsen nice driving.How many BHP at the wheels did your Giulietta have?
Is there any in car footage of the 90 "TAXI" anywhere?
John
Quote from: JOHN G on April 23, 2009, 10:07:16 PM
Is there any in car footage of the 90 "TAXI" anywhere?
I doubt it, there is nothing Robin (driver of the taxi) cannot do with a car......but I'm tipping he couldn't operate an in car camera even if his life depended on it!!
Hey Hey !! The plot fickens ! Thanks for the edumecation. I am starting to put a few things together. It was interesting to see the original owner pedalling the Joolie. Nice one Jim. Didn't tweak cause now Joolie is wearing a red dress in the hands of Hammer who's showing it no mercy.
Pitty the "Flying Brick" (our Alfetta) was not in that race. Could have been an interesting outcome. I cannot say the Giulietta in its present form is the same car or not but in Queensland events we outbrake, out handle and outpace it. Braking and handling may be due to Hammer being the next Schumacher in training (sorry buddy) but the straight line speed is car alone.
Hate 90's ??? Never. There is something to like about all Alfas. I just happen to love some more than others. Even though I own a 3.0L GTV6 (116), I prefer the transaxle sedans for handling due to their longer wheelbase making them less twitchy on the limit. Appearances and cabin ergonomics of course are seperate issue..
damn internet failed and ive missed out on the best topic yet i back you sheldon all the way ill take a 90 anyday of the week isrobins 90 ponchards old 90
getting back to matts post i would take it the colour is called champagne its what my racecar used to be before getting attacked but bumbble bees