Haven't used my Alfetta Rally car since november last year, after an altercation with a shrubbery. Landed after leaving the road on the lh rear wheel and bent the cast piece on the end of the de-dion, tore the watts link bracket from the rear cross member and pulled the rhs drive shaft to bits. With 20 kms to go on day 2, 380 kms total. worked out if i held the hand brake on and dropped the clutch the slippery would ramp up and lock in, giving me forward motion. We finished that stage , then cut and run to the finish so was classed as a finisher. 51st out of 109 starters. We were 16th when the wheels fell off! To keep the car going it required a lot of handbrake use... the effect was a small fire and partial loss of brakes. The stage finished in the bush at Nowa Nowa, we had to drive to the Kalimna Hotel ( rally HQ ) to finish. Scarey stuff doing 20 kms down the Princes Hwy, Sunday afternoon, with very little brakes, Nothing holding the de-dion central in the wheel arches, and every time that i lifted my foot the thing just free wheeled until i could pump the hydaulic hand brake enough to clunk the diff back in.
Last Christmas hols i stripped it down to a bare shell and started doing the repairs. Like any job you ever do on an Alfa, it snowballed! Now 1 year later i finally have some time to finish the job. The plan was to drive it to the bbq on the Yarra , Jan 14th but it is starting to look unlikely the it will be finished by then... but i will give it my best shot. Currently it is lying on its drivers side in the shed getting a new lhs sill. Cross members are done and most rust is removed. I plan to get the underside primed and painted by Tuesday night and tipped right way up so i can put some new seat mounts in, tidy up the inside and repaint.
Here is a pic taken today...
I am happy to keep you updated on progress if you are interested... let me know
And, there is something a bit different under the car... look carefully, see if you can spot it.
Hi Greg,
I think you have made the the center cross member removable across the tail shaft tunnel and changed to the 75 style torsion bar which fits into a bush in the cross member instead of the yolk behind the cross member,is that it?.
cheers
Andrew Scadding
Give Andrew the cigar, The reasons that i changed it to that type is this, with the original cross member the exhaust has to run under it. I have crushed that many exhausts on rocks and i reckon i can run the exhaust through a hole in the removable center section and get it up out of the way. Just need to find a way of running through or around the front gear box cross member. As a side point, i thought it would be lighter, you would think not lugging that cast torsion bar bracket around would have to be lighter, but putting the old torsion bars, cross member and bracket on the scales it is about the same weight as the new set up. The alfa 90 cross member is easily twice as heavy as the 116 cross member. so it doesn't save weight, just gets the exhaust out of the way.
Thanks Greg,
Are you going to use the two pieces of square tube across the rear floor section like the 90?.
Vin Sharp makes some extractors which come down between the fire wall/floor and the stearing rack which I reckon you could shape to go where you want them,you may have to modify the floor slightly above the rack but that wouldnt be much trouble for you while the car is as it is.Is oval pipe a possibility under the car?
Cheers
Andrew
Andrew, I have looked at those square tubes from every direction, i can't imagine that they would be strong enough to enhance anything. If some one can give me a really good reason to put them in i will think about it again... but for now they are in the recycle bin.
I didn't know that Vin had those extractors or i probably wouldn't have bothered making a set from mandrel bends. Very first time i autocrossed the Alfettta at Bagshot i crunched the front header pipe and thought what a ridiculus spot to run the pipe. I perservered with that setup until i turned it into a prc car ( as i was running in standard class) then i piffed the whole system. Mandrel bend extractors above the rack, 2.5 inch pipe down the tunnel over the drive shaft and large muffler where the fuel tank normally lives. I use a datsun 1600 tank in the book mounted between the shocker towers. When i redo the exhaust i will go down to a 2.25 inch pipe as i dont beleive it needs larger and 21/4 is a fair bit lighter. I'm looking at the flattened section of a v6 to go under the g'box cross member. maybe with a guard around it it will be more satisfactory.
here are some pics of the car when we first got it. one at pac and one at boisedale
are they the old 1800 series bumpers? dad always said i should consider putting the one we have lying around in the garage onto my car. i can see why now, i reckon it looks great!
Yes Mat, i was using 1800 bumpers. the rear bolts straight on no mods.. the front is another story. it is not wide enough to go around the guards, either you cut it in the center and add about 40 mm or do as i did and cut the labt bit of the wrap around off . if you do it on about a 45 degree angle it doesn't look too bad. Alas i only had 1 set and i wrapped the front one around a big tree ( i'll take yours if you don't want it) so i was using 1800 rear and a 2000 front. I'm with you Mat, i think they look way better plus they are less than 1/2 the weight. The rubber coated steel wrap arouds way a ton. I am using a 2000 front center with Subaru leone wrap aronds now. They are just plastic and 10 minutes with the agle grinder and it's hard to plck. For me, light is evrrything! Turning and stopping in the dirt is no fun in a heavy car.
some pics from the alpine, pic the subaru wrap arounds?
Hi Greg,
I dont know how much those tubes do but I always thought my 90 felt stiffer than the standard GTV.I have to say my hats off to you for figuring out how to make the car drive on one axle and being able to confidently control your Alfetta on dirt.Before I turned my GTV into a track only car I did a few grass motorkahnas and thrashed around some forest roads and while the car is inherantly neutral I found it impossible to turn it hard on the dirt without lots of hand brake and on throttle turning mostly produced understeer.I find I have it perfectly balanced for me(many mods) now on tarmack and can make it oversteer or understeer at will,off throttle/on throttle etc..Good Luck and keep up the good work!.
PS,I forgot to say the 75 has a flat twin pipe section between the headers and the cat.
Thanks for the info there Greg, most useful, as my last good 2000 bumper got wrecked the other day by some idiot backing into me. so excellent to know the 1800 will go on no worries. As for a front one, i thought we had one lying around, but it wasn't with the back one. I'll have a poke around the shed in the next few days, but i wouldn't get too hopeful.
Mat, i have quite a few spare bumpers. if you need one let me know.
Andrew, more on those tubes and body stiffness, pre caging my Alfetta i stiffened it up a lot simply by removing the front and back screens, fixing the rust around them then sikaflexing the glass in. Why Alfa used push in rubber screen surounds is beyond me. As the body flexes on bumps and hard cornering you can see the screens move in the holes, thus rubbing the paint off and ensuring they rust in the bottom corners. If any of you do sprints with out a cage and want a stiffer body, do this mod. Sikaflex is about $23 a cartridge at bunnings and i'm sure 3 cartridges will do both ends. Of course with a coupe, glueing the hatch glass in wont help but it may stop future rust when the drain holes block up!
You are right on handling, when i first hit the track it was a dog to turn. Standard trim it would understeer into most corners and the mechanical hand brake wasn't good enough to set it up. Being in standard class i couldn't change anything so i found the best way to set up for corners was a down change with a clutch side step. and we all know how tired transaxles love to down change into 2nd, dont we! Now with the suspension stiffened and better brakes with a biaser, hydraulic handbrake, tightened lsd and way less weight, it goes where i point it. I have found that it is way better without any rear sway bar, keeps both back wheels on the deck and is way less taily. It doesn't do big power slides at spectator points easily, but that isn't fast anyway. And i reckon it doesn't need to to look good, it's an Alfa, comes naturally.
Greg, if you have a useable rear 2000 bumper, would you consider a swap for an 1800? not 100% sure of the condition, but about to go down to the garage so i'll get some snaps while im down there. also, where are you located?
Mat, I'll have a look for a bumper, 90% chance i have an ok one. I am in Officer, just shy of Pakenham.
Mat, Yes i have a bumper for you. Maybe you could ring me on 0429382368 to organise.
Hi Greg,
I have a full cage in my car but the windscreen is in rubber and I notice a little crack going down from the A pillar!.Does your cage terminate in the engine bay near the shock mount or do you have any bracing under the bonnet,my cage is in the car only and I have been thinking about triangulating the front end shock towers under the bonnet or going from the cage to the shock mount area.I have been very pleased with the handling of my car,it will out handle just about everything at Mallala including clubbies!.I have not tried it without the rear sway bar although a friend of mine runs his sedan in Queensland without the rear bar and says its great.
Cheers
Andrew.
Thanks Greg, i'll give you a ring when i know when i know work hours over the weekend. here's the 1800 bumper. pretty straight except for the small dent in the second picture. and obviously the over riders are shot. apologies for the crap quality, the phone was handier than the camera.
Andrew, I also have the cage inside the car. i am not sure about the legalities of taking it thru the fire wall if you don't have struts. i may be wrong but i think if the cage penetrates the fire wall it can only terminate on the towers. Anyone have a different interpretation? I have had to weld the front of the body back on twice now. it cracks at the top where the bonnet hinges. i noticed in the Alpine Rally vid as my car went past you could hear a squeak, squeak. pretty sure that was the front flexing up and down. i have triangulated it under the guards to try and stiffen it this time, hope it works! If you want to try a lap without a rear sway, just pull the link of one side and try it. 10 minutes work. BTW, car looks great with attitude.
Mat. over riders are the first thing to get rid of! Sunday arvo works for me. I'll be in the shed.
Well, i failed to get car even near ready for the BBQ. Still on it's side, but now the under floor is finished , coated with K&N rust converter and primer and ready to paint. Gee that is great stuff. Have you used it? Made from tree tannin, leaves the metal with a resilient surface that will stay rust free for up to 6 months without re coating. So the floor is now a deep purple colour with 2 new sills and cross members, new spare wheel well, the old one was bashed to bits. Fitted one out of a Datsun 240K , cause i got it for free and it fits 205/65/15 tyres in it, so it is usable not like the old one. Like to have had it finished but i don't want a deadline to get in the way of a good job. Painting Thursday morning.
HI Greg,
I swear by Wattle Rust conveter,I have also used some of the water based ones but they havent been lasting wheras the wattle thinner base one is great.I have been restoring our club trailer for the last week and it needed plenty of Rust conveter!.
I'll try again. i posted a message here and broke this page. Thanks Evan for fixing it.
Andrew, huge job isn't it! treating rusted bits. You think you'll clean it up in a weekend... but never so. Finally i got the underbelly primed and top coated today, despite all the interuptions ( it's ok Mike and Mat, i enjoyed the chat) leave it on its side for a couple of days to harden and once i tip it the right way up i can start bolting things back on underneath whilst i clean up and paint the inside and engine bay. I must say i am getting anxious to take it for a spin, the sound of an Alfetta in the drive way today got my adrenellin going. Maybe i can get my new gtv6 going when i get it home on tuesday and i can go for a rip in it, but i'll talk about that car later in another thread..
here is the photo i tried to upload when the page crashed. heres hoping!
nice paint job how did you get it to look so pixalated (lol) ;D
sorry about the quality, dont know what happened there. here is a better one
you mont be able to rally that anymore as you will scratch the paint
Greg if the outside of my 105 looked as good as the underside of your alfetta id be wrapt......
pep, if the outside of my Alfetta looked as good as the underside, i'd be wrapt too!
nice job there, however cant go past the top quality of the camera you used. i was beginning to thin k you painted the underside in orange-peel red.
Yeah, camera is much better than the operator. Got some mates coming round in the morning to roll the car shiny side down, got a day or so's work inside on the floor, the boot and engine bay then i can put it back together. I got an esky full of dry ice today and put the gearbox input shaft back together with my new 1.13:1 4th gear ratio. Can't wait to try it out.
turned the Fetta over yesterday, i think it looked better on it's side. almost feel like putting it back! hopefully i'll have it looking just as good by the end of the week and some running gear on it. Need to get this baby going so i can start on my other project.
Earlier I talked about sikaflexing the windscreen in. I pulled the screen out of my GTV6 today and found it usuitable to sikaflex back in. The glass is too small in the hole to hold properly. So sedans ok, Coupe not so good.
Greg, I think that there are two different sizes of screen for the GTV. The earlier chrome bumper model which had a smaller rubber with the chrome insert strip had a larger screen. I have an early GT in the shed which has the screen "glued" in and no rubber. Someone else may be able to confirm this?
Cheers, Craig.
Not 100% sure on the winscreen, but that is certainly the case for the rear hatch screen (different size 1 type has rubber seal the other is a 'glue' in). So chances are they used a similar front and rear??
You are making me nervous now as I need a new windscreen for my 77 coupe. From what I have found the early glued windscreen isn't available anymore, only the later one for the gasket is. However, the gasket isn't available either so I was hoping I could glue in a later model windscreen. If that is too small to be glued in I need to rethink...
and from what i am told, you can only get a screen with a 20% green tint thru it. I need to get a clear screen eventually for the rally car. can't see the point of putting zenon driving lights on and then tinting the screen. An old bloke like me needs all the light he can get! The screen in the GTV6 is an original Alfa screen and it is clear. Does anyone know if they are available from Alfa still?
I spoke to O'Brien today, and they say they have the glass for a 77 alfetta gtv. It's got some kind of UV tint in it though, which apparently all new windscreens must have by law. I didnt't get a good explanation on it, ie if it is visible or not. I'll drop by one day to have a look.
After recent events, your torsion bar setup is of most interest to me Greg. The big question i have, is have you placed the holder things for the torsion bars into the existing cross member under the Alfetta? Are they located in the same spot on the 75 and alfetta, or is there maybe work involved relocating structural bits?
After starting the repairs on the alfetta today i've decided it won't be rallied again unfortunately. In fact i think i will convert it back to my road car. On the positive side, i have resurrected shell, and a 75, neither of which i really give a stuff about. I'm thinking very shortly it's going to be project o'clock.
Great... GAME ON!!!
if you go the Alfetta you are stuck with a 4 banger, if you go the 75 you can fit a 3 litre ( 24 valve if you want to).
pretty much same setup. just the torsion bars are a different length.
In my rework i have removed the Alfetta crossmember and welded in an Alfa 90 crossmember. the rear torsion bar mounts are integral, just like the 75 you have.
I'm not sure if it will be better yet, just my Alfetta crossmember was cactus, and the 90 one was convenient. Plus i think i can solve the low exhaust problem ( you know only too well) by running it thru just below the tailshaft. And no, the carbon fibre shaft wont fit as it is about 100mm too short.
Excellent. Cheers. If i can i will use the 75 bars and crossmember, as it won't cost me anything, and it's less of the 75 to go to the scrapper. A while off yet but i'll update as/if it all happens
The rework has commenced again. My son Jamey who used to autocross this car wants to go rallying. So we are busy finishing the paint job and then bolt her back together. I have learnt a little bit since building the last one, going to paint inside boot, under bonnet and interior of car polar white. Much easier to find things and work on in the dark. Painted red, it may as well be black. When something looks different i'll put up an image.
Yep, the Alfetta GT glue-in windscreen is definitely a different size to the steel bumper GTV. I don't believe the glass size changed with the change to plastic bumpers, but the rubber gasket was redesigned. It's been too many years for me to confirm which one is actually larger.