As per my suspension thread, I found this broken part at the base of the spring in the rear drivers side.
Wasn't attached. Was just sitting there at the base of the spring.
What is it?
Clearly it should be a full circle.
Where does it go and what is it's job?
Looks to me like it would sit at the top of the springs to help locate it in the bracket and/or keep it quiet.
This GTV pic shows a ring sitting on top of the coil spring.
You should message JohnL - he is a bit of a suspension expert.
Ah good spot!
Looks to me like the ring half way down in that pic. Is that the bump stop it's on?
I guess what I should have done was compare both sides while I had the wheels off. DOH! BUt this was the 2nd side I was working on, and I hate pulling wheels on/off, and jacking cars up/down lol.
It can wait till I get new springs in a month.
May inspect my bump stops and see what else I need.
I wish I knew - I'm already way beyond my level of knowledge! I'm only guessing in the dark, but if it was busted/hanging loose on one side only, maybe that would help explain why the two sides were uneven?
possible for sure.
Just doesn't strike me as something that would be between the spring and any contacting surface, being made of plastic and all.
But anything is possible.
Will keep you posted.
btw sorry...above I meant to say "it CAN wait" ....not "can't" haha.
Best of luck.
BTW - could it be something like this? Sits inside rear strut top mount from 147/156/GT.
Hard to see the picture well on a phone but I'd say a deformable spacer that goes between the coils either at the top or bottom of the spring. Bit like a bump stop in effect, and possibly why your car is biased in how it presently sits skewiff at the rear.
Also, you did torque up the bolts when both wheels were back on the ground and you'd bounced the car once or twice, didn't you?
Quote from: Citroënbender on July 17, 2017, 06:31:47 PM
Hard to see the picture well on a phone but I'd say a deformable spacer that goes between the coils either at the top or bottom of the spring. Bit like a bump stop in effect, and possibly why your car is biased in how it presently sits skewiff at the rear.
Also, you did torque up the bolts when both wheels were back on the ground and you'd bounced the car once or twice, didn't you?
The side in question was sitting low before, which I assumed was because of the shock I'd been told showed signs of leaking.
Yes to the bouncing.
Yes to tightening up wheel bolts once dropped. (always do)
No to torquing shock bolts once dropped. I did them up as tight as they were before, and the replaced each wheel, and then dropped.
I can't see how you'd get a torque wrench to them once the wheels are in placed and the car is dropped though. The bottom one maybe. But not the top one :/
Should I see if I can loosen them and re tighten, while the car is on the ground?
Re the mystery piece then, I guess I just get new springs anyway. May as well. And then get a replacement of this piece x2 and any other associated parts, and do the whole thing together (or handball it to my mechanic coz I hate the thought of doing springs after hearing horror stories.)
EDIT: Just re-read the procedure and the rear springs are not under tension so easy DIY job :D
Time to go shopping (again).
The cheat's way to preload requires you to have the ARB disconnected until all else is done.
You start by measuring the wheel hub centreline to a reference point vertically above on the bodywork, with the car on level ground and some fuel (but not a tankful). Check both sides, make a note. Check another car if you like, for confirmation. Then get the car up, disconnect the ARB and start your job.
After the R&R is completed, carefully jack up one stub axle until you reach the "on ground" measurement for that end of the car. Be sure the car remains stable on its chassis stands! Torque up everything on that side, let the jack down gently and repeat on the opposite stub. Finally attach the ARB again, all the rest is as you already know how to do.
Quote from: Citroënbender on July 17, 2017, 10:30:10 PM
The cheat's way to preload requires you to have the ARB disconnected until all else is done.
You start by measuring the wheel hub centreline to a reference point vertically above on the bodywork, with the car on level ground and some fuel (but not a tankful). Check both sides, make a note. Check another car if you like, for confirmation. Then get the car up, disconnect the ARB and start your job.
After the R&R is completed, carefully jack up one stub axle until you reach the "on ground" measurement for that end of the car. Be sure the car remains stable on its chassis stands! Torque up everything on that side, let the jack down gently and repeat on the opposite stub. Finally attach the ARB again, all the rest is as you already know how to do.
Cheers mate. Just a noob question....by ARB, are you referring to the shock?
EDIT: After a quick google, I assume you mean the anti-roll bar?The concept makes sense. Set the distances and THEN tighten it all up.
The part in question I think you will find is a anti squeak shim, to stop the spring wearing directly on the metal plates that it mounts on when assembled.
And even though this item is broken at one end, they are not always a full circle.
Quote from: bazzbazz on July 18, 2017, 07:51:21 PM
The part in question I think you will find is a anti squeak shim, to stop the spring wearing directly on the metal plates that it mounts on when assembled.
And even though this item is broken at one end, they are not always a full circle.
Cheers Bazz.
So same as the photo Poobah showed to a point.
Sounds like a fix it asap item to avoid ware and more costly damage.
Of course I've no idea how long it's been out of place.
Thanks everyone.
Quote from: poohbah on July 17, 2017, 04:59:50 PM
You should message JohnL - he is a bit of a suspension expert.
Which JohnL is that? Can't be me, I'm no expert.
I don't know what that broken part is, but maybe it's the remnant of of some sort of locating ring, i.e. if the spring is X internal diameter but the place it needs to rest in is significantly X- outside diameter, then maybe something is needed to centralise the spring?
Regards,
John.
Quote from: bazzbazz on July 18, 2017, 07:51:21 PM
The part in question I think you will find is a anti squeak shim, to stop the spring wearing directly on the metal plates that it mounts on when assembled.
And even though this item is broken at one end, they are not always a full circle.
Plenty of spring ends bear directly against a metal seat, with no wear issues, so I tend to doubt it's to protect against spring end or seating surface wear.
On the other hand, if the spring is not centered outside the damper tube (with some clearance between the spring ID and tube OD), then the spring might rub on one side of the tube? If so then it might (as I suggested) be necessary to have a centralising component?
Regards,
John.
Quote from: ugame on July 17, 2017, 09:07:41 PM
The side in question was sitting low before, which I assumed was because of the shock I'd been told showed signs of leaking.
A worn damper won't significantly affect the ride height. The cars weight is held up by the springs, not the dampers. Gas pressure (or lack of it) in the dampers isn't enough to make a significant difference to the ride height, other than maybe if the gas pressure is quite high (e.g. Bilstein) and the dampers fitted to a very light car.
Stock dampers are typically low pressure, just a few psi, not enough to lift the chassis appreciably. Even dampers like Koni are low pressure (Koni being 'twin tube' dampers, as are most stock dampers). It's only 'mono-tube' dampers such as Bilstein that use substantial pressure that might just be enough to make a very slight difference to ride height (i.e. carry some sprung weight, to a slight degree).
Quote from: ugame on July 17, 2017, 09:07:41 PM
No to torquing shock bolts once dropped. I did them up as tight as they were before, and the replaced each wheel, and then dropped.
Any rubber suspension bush that is subject to torsion (e.g. 'Silentbloc' type bushes, etc) should be tightened only after the suspension is at static ride height. If you tighten it with the suspension at droop then the rubber will be 'pre-twisted' at ride height, so bump motion will 'twist' the rubber more than usual. The bush may wear prematurely...
Quote from: ugame on July 17, 2017, 09:07:41 PM
I can't see how you'd get a torque wrench to them once the wheels are in placed and the car is dropped though. The bottom one maybe. But not the top one :/
Should I see if I can loosen them and re tighten, while the car is on the ground?
I would. Not every bolt and nut needs to be torqued with a torque wrench. Just do it up tight with an ordinary spanner.
Regards,
John.
QuoteWhich JohnL is that? Can't be me, I'm no expert.
Don't be so modest John - I saw your Toyota suspension conversion thread, and the one about making your own ARBs etc. Wayyyyy over my head. :)
BTW - Ugame. There is a surefire way to work out the answer that won't cost a cent. Keep the part on you, and next time you are in Osborne Park, pop in to Cilebertis and ask Leo what, where, why and how much!
Quote from: poohbah on July 20, 2017, 09:12:28 PM
QuoteWhich JohnL is that? Can't be me, I'm no expert.
Don't be so modest John - I saw your Toyota suspension conversion thread, and the one about making your own ARBs etc. Wayyyyy over my head. :)
Nice of you to say. I suppose 'expert' is a relative concept. I have an interest, am an amateur 'student' of suspension dynamics, know at least some stuff, and can't resist fiddling to make improvements to my cars, but people who
really know get well paid for it. However, there is a lot I don't know, and likely never will because I don't possess the engineering training and mathematical skills required. Suspension theory is complex, to understate it...
Regards,
John.
Thanks again JohnL and Poobah.
My next plan was already to take the part in question in to Leo.
Been away in the UK for 3 weeks and now busy with work again, but should find time this week I think :)
My plan is actually, once the wife has recovered from the cost of my UK jaunt, I'll take the part and the car into Leo and let him sort it out :)
Mainly because that way he can check to see if something else is amiss that's causing one side to sit low.
All that said, I took her for a totally unecessary drive through the hills and then on to Brookton as I had today off.
Car is handling AMAZING!
Loving it!
Nothing beats an Italian tune up. Did the same on Saturday, with kids out to bindoon. Coincidentally, I just had lower front arms replaced, and l am always surprised at how much of a difference it makes. Though I still winced on a few sections of Great northern highway. Surely the worst maintained major road in Perth.
Quote from: poohbah on August 19, 2017, 01:34:50 AM
Nothing beats an Italian tune up. Did the same on Saturday, with kids out to bindoon. Coincidentally, I just had lower front arms replaced, and l am always surprised at how much of a difference it makes. Though I still winced on a few sections of Great northern highway. Surely the worst maintained major road in Perth.
No no no. The road is fine! It's speed that kills people. Honest. ::)
I prefer the coast road to Jurian Bay but the thing that kills people there is apparently tourists pulling out of junctions without looking, as if they were still on a caravan park carpark.
Still my fave way to get north though.
The reason I "Needed" to go for a drive yesterday was 2 fold.....
1) Wake up the GTV from a 3 week slumber and
2) Remind myself that Perth does have some nice roads, as while in the UK, I took a road trip from Birmingham to Wales in a friends Porsche 997......
...but that will be another thread ;)
Quote from: johnl on July 20, 2017, 07:40:40 PM
I would. Not every bolt and nut needs to be torqued with a torque wrench. Just do it up tight with an ordinary spanner.
Regards,
John.
Yep that's essentially what I did hey.
The problem is, you really can't get to the top one once the wheel is on.
The bottom one, no problem.
oh oh oh!
Look what just found by accident :D
(http://www.my-alfa.com/media/catalog/category/FB916HA.jpg)
So I'm guessing my part is item 9....possibly.
Bingo.
RE great northern highway, it's the section near lake chattering where heavy trucks have worn deep ruts into the road that it is really bad. If you want a great drive, try the back way into toodyay via julimar Rd. Also lower chittering road is pretty good.
Quote from: poohbah on August 19, 2017, 03:27:11 PM
Bingo.
RE great northern highway, it's the section near lake chattering where heavy trucks have worn deep ruts into the road that it is really bad. If you want a great drive, try the back way into toodyay via julimar Rd. Also lower chittering road is pretty good.
There's a good pie shop in Toodyay so I've heard :D
I have experienced some good roads during the Annual Pasta Run event too.
popped into Chileberti's today and Dan doesn't know either lol.
So we're now wondering if it's potentially something my car has just picked up from the road haha.