Hey guys,
Does anyone know a good intercooler set up that will fit into the GTV6 with minimal work?
This will be for a supercharged engine:-)
Thanks guys!
I wasnt aware that intercoolers worked on superchargers as the heat is not such a problem
as in a turbo
I follow with intrigue always happy to learn
but if you need one go to a subaru wrecker they would have hundreds
Are you planning a front or top mount?
Quote from: carlo rossi on June 17, 2015, 08:39:22 PM
I wasnt aware that intercoolers worked on superchargers as the heat is not such a problem
as in a turbo
I follow with intrigue always happy to learn
but if you need one go to a subaru wrecker they would have hundreds
Most of the heat comes from the compression of the air, not just the exhaust heat transfer.
Subaru intercoolers aren't very useful for conversions (at least the ones I've seen) because they have a split outlet setup that's a pain to adapt.
A water to air intercooler set up will give the nicest packaging. The chassis doesn't lend itself well to getting 2"+ pipe to a front mounted core without cutting (illegal) holes in the body. You'll have to be prepared to do some custom work with any setup you come up with.
My no where near complete setup:
Quote from: Duk on June 18, 2015, 06:01:56 PM
The chassis doesn't lend itself well to getting 2"+ pipe to a front mounted core
2" wouldn't be too difficult, you could probably get away with only one extra hole.
I'm in the middle of marking out for 3" piping, that's going to take a whole lot of cutting :o
Quote from: festy on June 18, 2015, 09:03:46 PM
I'm in the middle of marking out for 3" piping, that's going to take a whole lot of cutting :o
I'm curious to see what Alfa needs 3" pressurised pipe work. Considering that 2.5" pipe plumbing is able to deal with 400+hp worth of air flow.................
Quote from: Duk on June 18, 2015, 06:01:56 PM
My no where near complete setup:
That looks quite impressive Duk. Like the brace too & it looks like you've added support to the brake Master. Noice!
That looks great so far Duk!
From what I've seen, it is highly recommended to do a water to air intercooler. Probably Greg Gordon might be the one to source info from?
Yes, Greg is an excellent source of information.
Duk is the 75 running with the charger yet?
Quote from: Storm_X on October 13, 2015, 08:43:12 PM
Duk is the 75 running with the charger yet?
Ummmmmmmmmmm, next question. :-[
Cmon Duk ya slack prick! 😅😅
Quote from: Mike on October 13, 2015, 10:39:47 PM
Cmon Duk ya slack prick! 😅😅
Hahaha! ;D
Yeah, I know! :P
gtv6sv,
If you are looking for a inter-cooler for your GTV6, let me know I have one that came out of my GTV6 that was once turbo charged and can be brought for the right price if you want one. . see picture
Hey guys,
Does anyone know a good intercooler set up that will fit into the GTV6 with minimal work?
This will be for a supercharged engine:-)
Thanks guys!
gtv6sv,
Before you consider what sort of intercooler to install, you need to consider whether you need one at all. Depending on the blower type, some produce more heat than others for the same pressure. Other factors like your proposed compression ratio together with your proposed amount of boost will usually signal if an intercooler is required or not. Additionally, your intended fuel type will influence the detonation threshold and whether an intercooler is required or not.
You first need to package together what it is you are trying to do with your engine, street mods, race prep, what? Only after you have the package worked out will you need to consider the intercooler.
For a simple contribution for minimal impact on the body work, I agree with the Dukster. Consider an air-to-water intercooler.
Hey MD,
Currently my car only has 5psi boost, it is a roots-style supercharger (eaton/Magnuson mp62) and currently has stock internals with standard compression. Also will be running a Haltech ecu.
This car will be a street car, however i do intend to do a fair few trips with it!
Down the track i do want to boost it to around 7psi+, with forged internals and lowered compression. Ideally, I'd want to put an air-to-water intercooler.
I want to run 98RON but again induction is very new to me so i do want to do research to see what fuel type is best, personal recommendation MD?
Alfagtv85, how did you install the intercooler? I'd imagine there would've been a fair bit cutting of the body!
Ah, much better background. We now know what you are aiming for.
To be honest, to get a wholistic picture is what you need and to get there would occupy more time than I can afford so I will put you onto a very cheap solution. Please buy and read Greg Gordon's E book here:http://www.amazon.com/SUPERCHARGING-guide-superchargers-injection-ebook/dp/B00FGDKK5Q/ref=sr_1_41?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1380289439&sr=1-41&keywords=supercharging (http://www.amazon.com/SUPERCHARGING-guide-superchargers-injection-ebook/dp/B00FGDKK5Q/ref=sr_1_41?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1380289439&sr=1-41&keywords=supercharging) It will cost you less than a pair of skid marked undies after you take your first drive of the completed job.
General suggestions:
If you are going to the cost and trouble of purpose specifying up your engine for forced induction and move up 2 PSI, it will be hardly a meaningful upgrade in power. By all means do the engine internals and be sure to have it all balanced but do the calculations for a 12PSI pulley theoretical boost and you will have somewhere between 9-10PSI in the plenum allowing for scrubbing looses in the interccoler. If it is more efficient and still keeping plenum temps down, all the better.
You will definitely need a programmable ECU.
98 RON fuel detonates on a CR of 9:1 - just ask me ! So work down from there. I would play it extra safe and go no higher the 7.5:1 because the blower even at that CR will make such a torque difference you will be delighted with the result. ( I could have used more expletives to make the point but I have to remember ladies read this stuff too ;D )
To recap: Buy the Book, it's pricelss for Alfa boosting V6's. I would recommend a ROOTS type blower for street application. Makes early early power without revving the piss and pick handles out of it.
7.5:1 CR for 10-12 psi of boost. That's some old school approach MD..................... :o
I would keep a street car engine to no lower than 8.5:1. You may sacrifice some outright power, by having to reduce on boost ignition advance, but part throttle (off boost) drivability and cruise fuel ecconomy will be better for it.
A lot of thing effect the knock behavior of an engine. Combustion chamber design (which includes the piston crowns), camshaft specs and exhaust system all play a part. Make sure your engine isn't strangled by a poor flowing exhaust.
Pound for pound (of boost pressure) a supercharged engine will have a higher knock threshold than an equivilent turbo engine, purely because there's not the flow restiction, and so heat retention, of the exhaust gasses.
And oversized interccolers are largely a waste of time and space. They add plumbing volume to the system, which first has to be pressurised before the effects are felt by the engine and are usually just a 'look at me' status thing for most cars/owners.
If you genuinely heat soak a reasonably sized intercooler on the road, then you'd probably be going to jail for your driving behavior............... :o
And as per Greg's book. Water injection will do more to raise the knock limit of the engine than any conventional intercooler will. But by itself water injection won't help the engine make more power like a good intercooler can.
For shizzles: An FG F6 intercooler sitting on my WTA intercooler's radiator mounts. The FG F6 had over 400hp (but were still hobbled), so if you genuinely need something near this size, I'm keen to see your car!
gtv6sv
One thing you will need to adjust to when seeking public opinion is that you may get conflicting advice as is evolving here.
The CR figure that I have provided is a very conservative one that is virtually guaranteed to work for you. By all means you can go higher and experiment on the way there. It all depends on how deep your pockets are.
I was also advised by people "in the know" that a CR of 9:1 with 15PSI on 98 RON fuel with concave forged pistons would work with a good intercooler. Well, the advice is /was crap because the intercooler did its job to produce a temperature of 10*C above ambient but the engine would simply detonate its head off.
I have solved the problem but I am not going into ways and means here.
The boosted road is not as simple as it seems..
Haha loving all the advice and opinions here! Great debate!
I have purchased Greg Gordons book, something i should have done a long time ago, cheers for the link MD!
For me, i want this car to have longevity, but have to have a good amount of torque on tap when needs be.
Before the engine was pulled out of the old car, it produced 220hp at the wheels and 270Nm of torque on the wheels from 2500rpm. I will definitely be seeking out water injection, i believe for a reliability factor,this is necessary. May be down the track when i am more established i will turn it into a 500hp monster with intercooling😅but for now I'm happy just to get the car on road, miss driving it! Its currently getting its re-done as we speak😊
Definitely in the near future I'll be wanting to up the boost, 10psi would be the max I'd go for a road car.
my ECU is fully programmable so I'm lucky in the respect.
At the moment if i can somehow get this car ready for spectaccolo I'd very pleased! Definitely need to start coming down to the alfa club meetings and speak to all you about it!
Don't worry I'm the same duk