Hello All, I've been a long time Alfa owner but sadly not in recent times, and have not been active on any of the Alfa forums. I've had a string of Suds, Sprints, and 33's, ending up with a 33P4....but that was 10 years ago.
I'm now in the position of assisting my Father to sell 2 Alfasud cars and looking for some (hopefully unbiased) ideas on what value they are. Of course every one dreams of the mint condition one in a barn for free, where the seller would like millions!
First car is an '83 Sud ti, 3 door hatch. Bodywork restored late 1990's and used as a daily driver. Still quite a looker, drives well but will be sold unregistered.
Second car is a '72 4 door Sud, body is sound but not restored, some surface rust in spots but not the major cancer often found. Would be the basis of a restoration or break up for parts.
Would love both of them to go to an enthusiast.
First bit of advice is keep an eye on CarSales and Gumtree to get an idea of the market. Take note of registration details and general condition in comparison for price, and take 10%-25% off the asking price to get a more realistic idea of value.
A registered car will be worth more than an unregistered one. If you buy a car unregistered, where the seller says "not much to do to get rego", you've got to wonder why they didn't, and what hidden problems remain to be fixed and paid for. If there is a registered alternative, why would you go for the unregistered one?
A 3 door Sud will be more attractive to most enthusiasts than a four door one, so I would suggest getting it registered, and offering it for about $3,500, if it's in 'daily driver' condition.
People buying a project will be wanting to get it for as little as possible, if only for the risk of major expenses. And given that a registered, absolutely mint Sud is unlikely to bring in more than $6k anyway, you'll need an enthusiast to buy it, who doesn't care what the restoration costs, because they will never recover thise costs. There aren't going to be many people like that. Suds aren't that collectable, so you're more likely to attract people looking for a parts car. So I'd offer the project for $1,500 and accept $1,000.
But that's just what I think.
Thanks, agree with all you say but I'm not calling the shots....
The ti is better than a daily driver, with any luck I've attached an image if you're curious.
Looks tidy! If (big IF) you happen to get a very motivated buyer who really wants a tidy Sud in a hurry, then it might change hands for as much as $8k. That's unlikely though, more likely $3.5-4.5k unregistered. If you're in a hurry, you'll end up dropping the price below $3k and it'll move I think.
That's not super well informed, just guesswork based on observing the few cars I've seen advertised and change hands the last few years. There's not a lot of supply, and not a lot of interest really.
The early sedan won't sell for more than $1000, I fear.
James ,
You have just heard from one of the Sud oracles Evan , Wait for the second one to chip in , Uncle Col Col before you do anything
Gully
Thanks Evan, much appreciated.
The car is not concours condition, but certainly tidy.
A few more pics couldn't hurt. Also, honest disclosure about any rust (arches, rear hatch, battery tray etc) or mechanical issues will help.
At the very least I'd get a roadworthy/safety certificate for it so a potential buyer knows what needs doing (if anything). It's not hard to organise if it's a driver just phone up for a permit and days worth of CTP.
[edit] nice one :)
I think this one is a rarity - a Sud without rust. It was pretty bad when bought, but was extensively repaired and re-painted - not just a bog job. That was probably 12-15 years ago.
I hear you re the safety cert - but it's also been my experience that it doesn't prove anything in the real world.
And here's a shot of the 4 door, definitely not the same class I'm afraid.
With respect, in the real world a current roadworthy ($72./) means the car can be registered and enjoyed by the purchaser pretty much straight away without having to worry about fixing any number of things that have been missed on the safety cert, ie. without one its a very lovely +30yr old project (and would be valued accordingly).
Just my two cents. Spend the $72./ and let the buyers be informed.
Either way, best of luck with the sale. I'd love to see the early one. My first car was the exact same model (although it came with V5 Simmons in resale red)
Thanks, will consider the RWC and see how we go.
If you're interested in the 4 door, you're welcome to inspect.....
Its only worth what someone is willing to pay for it and how bad they do or don't want it.
From the photo, the twin carb Sud has the steering wheel cover the wrong color, it is 70's brown, where it should be black, and the centre consul is missing.
The twin carb Sud is the best most insane car i have ever driven, had one as a daily driver for 2 years, still miss it, the character and the beat of the engine and the way the car used to rock back and forth when you pulled up at the lights.
The twin carb was a limited edition only a few hundred sold in 83-84, half silver and half red.
They are not making them anymore, and they won't get any cheaper.
The 4 door is very rare, as 15 years ago, they were worth nothing and were thrown out.
The seats in the twin carb are a pain, as they have very particular trim thats impossible to get.
They would be a good car to put on club plates and go for a Sunday run with the Alfa club.
There are no computers or fuel injection, just points, breakerless ignition and carbs, easy to fix, the bonnet area has a surprising amount of working room, compared to new cars.
If i had the time and money i would buy them and store them in a capsule up the bush in a barn somewhere.
Look out for cracked front chassis rails, right where the driveshaft passes under the rail, not terminal, can be migged up and painted.
Seriously, when was the last time you saw a Sud?, i reckon about 10 years ago, they are like rocking horse droppings, Colin.
Not a Sud person but definitely both buyer and seller of "daily driver" Alfas (and other things) over the years. I agree with Craig - get the cert - a knowledgeable buyer will beat you down over it not having one, even if they know they know it will get one no trouble, the less knowledgeable will just stay away. It shouldn't "cost" anything bottom line. It should broaden the market.
Thanks Colcol.
I should have mentioned the 4 door has been in the family from new, one lady owner if you like - true! Never raced or thrashed, but it does have a 1.5l engine single carb instead of the 1.2. The 1.2 might even be in the shed somewhere.....
Quote from: James D on May 12, 2015, 09:10:30 PM
Thanks, will consider the RWC and see how we go.
If you're interested in the 4 door, you're welcome to inspect.....
I'd just be tyre kicking thirty year old memories of my 17yr old self.... Any more pics, is it complete? :)
It was my first car to drive too.....
Complete but not original, it has a 1.5l engine and 5sp box, and the wheels are off a '81ti.
Sorry, no interior photos at the moment.
Sud looks great in the pictures and good luck selling.
Value is hard to gauge as the Sud market in Aust is 'thin' but there are genuine collectors out there. The higher the price, the longer will take to sell but around $4K pending condition. For a collector, believe the real value of the car is in the body as this is typically the most expensive part of any resto but as Col mentioned, the interiors are also hard to restore. Mechanicals are cheap & easy on the 1.5 engine.
IMO, would not bother getting RWC/ registration etc as good chance car will be sold interstate.
Cheers
Paul
Remember the '75 4 door that got sold on ebay a few months back?, went for about 15k, the buyer purchased it without looking at it in the flesh, just looking at it on the screen, and brought it back to the UK and did a piece on what a good car it was, as they were all gone in the UK, but there are still a few gems to be had in the relatively dry climate of Australia.
To me the 4 door is more desirable, as it very rare now, as the twin carb was a limited edition and more highly prized and less likely to be taken to Simms Metal as i did to a crashed early Sud about 20 years ago, Colin.
I agree with Colin. The best market for early 4-door Suds seems to be in the UK, sad as that is as it means losing what looks like a good car. Suggest you put a post up in Alfaowner.com.
That's pretty amazing.
hi James.
what sort of money are you after for red TI. I am very interested in it if right price. could you please send me your number so we can negotiate.
thanks vince
PM sent....
Quote from: colcol on May 14, 2015, 09:14:48 PM
Remember the '75 4 door that got sold on ebay a few months back?, went for about 15k, the buyer purchased it without looking at it in the flesh...
Pretty sure the $15k Sud was a two-door Ti. Might have been a different car, but unlikely.
Yes, I found the thread on Classic Alfa and it was a 2 door. Looked pretty good too.
yep, the early 2 door Ti is a rare beast! Most have returned to the earth. Wish I could find one cheap. I have driven an early 4 door and they are pretty fun though. Good luck with the sale. Wish I could help you with storage Craig but as you know I am already over my Alfa quota...
looks like I bought two suds. :)
now to get them home
Great news Enzo, 2 cars saved from going back to the UK, the 4 door is very rare, will be interested to see what condition its in, put it on club plates and drive it on a nice dry sunny day on a Sunday club run, Colin.
thanks Colin. now to work out how to get them down here. Both will go on club reg. minor restore on blue car and find and replace 1.2 engine. if possible.
Years ago the 1.2 engines and 4 speed gearboxes were used to prop doors open at wrecking yards, all gone to Simms Metal, but there should be a few left in a dark corner somewhere, Colin.
Congratulations :)
I had a 1.2Ti gearbox in my 1.5QV Sprint once. Useless on the Parkway but hilarious around the suburbs. Good luck with the little blue one. Just the wrong time for me unfortunately.
Well, this hasn't gone according to plan, I've not been able to contact Enzo164 for some time, and the nominated pickup day has come and gone.
So, for any interested players out there the cars are available again.
Quote from: James D on July 01, 2015, 08:06:58 PM
Well, this hasn't gone according to plan, I've not been able to contact Enzo164 for some time, and the nominated pickup day has come and gone.
So, for any interested players out there the cars are available again.
MWAH!!!!!
(Can I come and see the blue one just for shits and giggles?)
Of course you can. Never know what might happen!
PM me for details...
Still for sale James?
Apologies for the slow reply, both cars have sold.