Hi all,
my wife and i are looking to replace our trusty VW Polo tdi as it seems to have shrunk as our family grew. Sofar we have been looking at other VAG makes such as Tiguan, Passat, Octavia and the Alfa 159 as a tease.
There doesnt seem to be the 159 i would want to pay the asking price for (2.4JTD manual SW in black with tan interior). Also the JTD has crappy mileage (but 400NM!). So i had a look at manual 156 Sportswagons and theres a couple for sale at the moment. THe difference in cost between VAG diesels and a 156 would work out pretty even over the life of the car given the difference in fuel economy(we've done about 50k/year for 3 years in the Polo).
So should we get a 156 sportswagon manual? whats to look for, TS or JTS? early, late etc.... informed and subjective opinion welcome.
And we plan to to keep the car for at least 5 years and have a total of 3 children, mostly highway driving and will need to install a towbar.
What is the actual fuel consumption? Do they have to use premium? Are they reliable? when are major services due?
Are they great cars??? I've not yet driven a modern alfa.
Get a 156 manual, with low klms, the JTS is the later one 2002 - 2006, the twin spark is the earlier motor.
The JTS has curtain airbags, stability control and panic brake assist and climate control airconditioning.
The Twin spark and JTS have to have their cambelts done at 3 years - 50,000 - 60,000 klms, the ts uses 10 - 40 fully synthetic oil, the JTS uses 10 - 60 fully synthetic as well.
They both suffer from rattly suspension, with the rattles starting at about 100,000klms, look for top control arms and worn roll bar mounts, at about this time you will need to look at Lambda Sensors to be replaced, 2 in the TS and 4 in the JTS.
You could always consider a V-6 with a proper automatic, but fuel use is heavier.
The plastic water manifolds in the JTS can leak as well, the TS had a proper alloy water manifold.
Look for a good service record and get it checked out by an Alfa Romeo Service Provider, as they know where the skeletons are, the RACV and such are better at looking at normal cars, Colin.
What's your budget?
I have a manual '03 156 1.9JTD Sportwagon.
Nero Metallico (AR846/a) over black (dark grey?) leather.
Personal import we brought home from the UK 2009.
All wishbones and bushes done, new rad & thermostat, intake boost hoses and clutch.
Recent new Bilstien B6 all round with original 17" GTA speedlines, recent new battery.
I've maintained this car myself and trust it to go anywhere, anytime... quickly
It's a well loved family car. Has lived outside both here and in London so has a few light parking scrapes etc. Has done a lazy lap of the Nurburgring with two children under three.
Averages 800-1000klms per tank regardless of how you drive it. Very flexible and quick being a manual. It's also pre DMF so the only potential issues are EGR although to date i have had none. I have a new spare EGR, MAF, MAP, Rad, waterpump etc just in case along with all belts, idlers, tensioners etc for the next service.
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/imagejpg1_zpsf78d7ed4.jpg) (http://s20.photobucket.com/user/craig_m5/media/imagejpg1_zpsf78d7ed4.jpg.html)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/imagejpg2_zps98d0c04f.jpg) (http://s20.photobucket.com/user/craig_m5/media/imagejpg2_zps98d0c04f.jpg.html)
thanks craig, so did they didnt sell the diesel 156 here at all? How big is the tank (for l/100 calc purposes). How many kms has it done? how did you go with compliance for aust? is the 1.9 motor the same as the 159 (except no dpf)?
I'll pm you regarding budget
At the time of the 156, the diesel fuel in Australia was truck diesel only and wasn't really suitable for cars, then a few years ago, they changed the fuel regulations on diesels, and it was more refined and suitable for cars, thats about the time Alfa Romeo bought in the 1.9 in the 159 and 147, Colin.
Same 50 litre tank as all 156... takes 56 litres :)
Indicates 3-4L/100ks on the freeway, 5-8L/100ks around town.
Brisbane to Sydney on a tank
Compliance was easy as apart from the childseat mounts on the rear folding seat it's identical.
I've fitted an Australian leather interior so the correct approved mounts are now in the car.
Shannon's will insure it (personal import)
It's just about to hit 120K Miles or 200K km
No 156 diesels were imported into Australia. From memory, this engine (unlike the later JTDm in the 147, 159 etc) is the single cam version and is not an interference engine so if the belt breaks.. just put on a new one (as opposed to changing lifters in the JTDm). It's the same 1.9 derv then used by SAAB, GM, etc..
Plenty of grunt, never mapped although every now and again I consider sending the ECU back to the UK as they're pretty well developed now. Oh, I've a complete set of 330Brembos and uprights etc for the front, haven't gotten around to putting them on yet. Car just isn't used very much at the moment (last 18 moths or so) as we live right in the City.
http://youtu.be/quf8r2boy5E
I'm open to offers, however I would expect more than the run of the mill JTS. I'm in no hurry to sell as its a very useful, practical and well maintained car - I just don't use it much.
I should mention, we recently bought a 75TS as our second car which still has a propshaft vibration issue; if we buy another alfa and it has ANY issues my wife will punch me.
Did they sell any V6 156 sportwagons here? If so, I reckon that would be your safest bet, especially if you are planning to do any towing.
No.
One or two have been built though, fairly straight forward swap
Still less torques than the JTD :)
thanks Col for your knowledge on what to look for. I am looking at some JTS manual wagons this week, all should have had 2 cambelts done by now so i will look for records of this. How do i tell if lambda sensors have failed? Will the cars still drive?
If a car has a cambelt thats older than 3 years or 60,000kms should i not drive it from sydney to melbourne?
where do i go online to get service items (cambelts, waterpumps, plugs filters etc...)?
The Lambda sensors progressively get worse, and the car will stumble off at the lights, with a 'Motor Control Failure' warning coming up.
When you take it to an Alfa Romeo Specialist, to get it looked over, get them to connect a scanner up to see if there are any trouble codes present.
If the car has more than 60,000klms on it or its older than 3 years, you are getting into the danger zone, its up to you, i know of a bloke with a twin spark who had a 10 year old cam belt, [the original], and he kept driving it until he had it serviced, how lucky do you feel?
The coil packs will most likely start to fail about this time too, the car will run on 3 cylinders and you will get the 'Motor Control Failure' light.
You could try Italian Automotive Spares in Brunswick, they have a good knowledge of parts, and one of them drives a 156, so that means he is a good bloke, [03] 9036 1606, Colin.
Further to Col's advice about the belts, its really not worth the risk. If belt is due for a change but you take a chance and it goes, your motor will be cactus and cost as much as the car to replace. And I especially wouldn't risk it on a long haul between capitals - if ti does go, you'll just be stuck in the middle of nowhere, far far away from your nearest Alfa expert...
This is a real tricky question, If you purchased a car in Melbourne or Sydney, would you drive it home to Castlemaine?, if you were planning to do the timing belt yourself, you may risk it and drive it there, but if you were going to get a Alfa Service Provider to do it, you would just get it done properly and drive it back home.
When mine is coming up to its timing belt change, you get a bit nervous, not revving it too hard, and when its done, you feel a whole lot better.
The timing belt also has a balance belt to run the 2 balance shafts, if this belt breaks, it will tangle up with the engine timing belt, and cause a big bang....followed by a long silence.
The water pump is part of the timing belt system and this should be changed at every second belt change.
The tensioners should be changed every 3 years as well, Colin.
thanks guys.
we're looking at a 159 2.4JTD and a couple of 156 JTS SW selespeeds tomorrow. I can handle frequent timing belt changes myself but the JTD we're looking at has had a clutch and dual mass flywheel replaced with less than 100k on the clock.... Thats scary! We'll clock up that in 2 years.
It would be good to get a 156 and a 159 side by side to compare internal dimensions. Any experience here?
The 159 is a much bigger car, with more room on the inside, and it has a better airconditioner.
The series 2 159 has a little more room inside than a series 1, as they redesigned the seats, for more room.
If you get a Automatic, it has a good Japanese Asian Brand gearbox, without needing to worry about Dual Mass Flywheels on the manual, Colin.
Rear seats on the 159 don't fold flat, unlike the 156 (and GT). 159 feels more solid but also much heavier. The 156 is quite nimble in comparison.
Thanks guys..
Colin, what sort of fuel consumption do you get on the open road?
Craig, love to have your fuel consumption! Is a 156 SW big enough for 2-3 kids under 5??? (Probably not!)
Quote from: Divano Veloce on November 06, 2014, 10:27:10 AM
Craig, love to have your fuel consumption! Is a 156 SW big enough for 2-3 kids under 5??? (Probably not!)
Good question. This was pretty much the exact requirement ours had to meet in London. We had (at the time) two kids 0-3yrs. It's all about careful packing, you will use up all the space you have regardless of how big your car is. We managed to tour Europe and the Uk easily with everything we needed, including the pram and a very special Leckey Mygo seating system for Jemima who had quadriplegic cerebal palsy (reason we went to the UK).
We had two child seats in the back and were able to sit in the middle (feeding etc) however it wasn't very comfy for an adult. Without the seats it would be better but it's no falcon back there, essentially the same size as a mk7 golf. I doubt the 159 has wider or deeper rear seats in this regard to be honest. I found the 159 to be a little impractical after the 156, felt darker and tighter inside to me and the higher load lip at the rear was also annoying... This and the fact the rear seats don't fold flat were show stoppers and is why I still have the 156 and haven't "upgraded". Gorgeous thing to look a though and a 2.4JTD (auto has paddles) is a frickin beast.
Our pram was a Phil & Teds double... Which I road tested in a few cars before deciding to buy. It fits fine leaving plenty of space for soft backpacks/bags etc.
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/craig_m5/weakaspiss.jpg)
*
not my car! obviously PS. Only just noticed your PMs. Sounds good, let me give her a clean on the weekend and I will send you some pics.
My 156 JTS gets between 5.8 and 8.5 depending upon hills, headwinds, 90-110 cruising speed, have got 827 kays out of a a tank, then i ran out!, just wanted to see, not a selespeed, Colin.
To avoid future punching from Mrs DV, I would suggest you avoid any of the Selespeeds. Try getting a conventional auto or conventional manual. While some say the selespeeds are fine if maintained properly, a quick scroll through this chat room would suggest that gremlin-free examples are pretty hard to find.
Thanks poobah! The dele speed test drive was more about looking at the size and detail of a jts sportswagon. Today I'm lm lm looking at a manual...
Do these need premium? My old 8v twinspark is ok on 91 (but it's also 10.5:1 and true twinspark)
I only use 98 RON in my V6 as a personal choice, but the basic requirement is 95RON.
Sad end to this thread, Wife insisted on a skoda wagon. It's big, fast and diesel but very boring. I will have it tuned immediately to 125kw 400nm
I dunno, if I was looking for another practical wagon that would be my choice. Best if luck with it!
I'm very disappointed to be honest. I'd love a sportswagon....
156s are going so cheap these days you could still just get one as a weekender ...
Poohbah is so correct, it is ridiculous how cheap 156s, let alone all the other 932 series Alfas are.
I have had my 156 Sportwagon now for 7 years and apart from the sorts of issues Col noted, for me it has been a great car, practical, comfortable, economical and yet still fun to enjoy. It looks superb as well. In overall terms for me it has been very reliable.
Every now and again I kind of think of selling it, but seriously it is still such a terrific car, that i still have it. And yes its value now is about a quarter of what I payed for it, so there really isn't much incentive to sell it.
Pity the other half insisted on the Skoda, but in truth they are a pretty decent car these days.
im scheming an engine swap between a 156 JTS SW and a 147JTD... If someone could write off a 147JTD that would really help me out
would need to sell the berlina though...
156 JTD has a different subframe to the other 156.
You'd be better off importing the complete engine/subframe/loom and ECU from the UK.
Get a manual 20v 2.4. Then it just bolts in
Or buy mine.