Hi legends,
Are there any 2.0 TS engines running on LPG on here?
I am interested to know which emulator (injector & o2?) you are using and/or which lpg fuel processor feedback for the closed loop system...
I am moving forward on a simple/prehistoric method I have become familiar with, single point inductive mixer. Currently not interested in going injected due to maintenance and cost.
The Alfa TS engine is new to me so I am sure I will come up against some challenges! Just discovered the intake is variable :o
Cheers,
Harley
Harley
What are you turning the 147 into a taxi??, the LPG industry has a lot of Italian made LPG equipment, the Italians have a good hold on valves and mixers, they even made a 33 that was LPG powered as well!, not much room in a 147 hatch, even less with an LPG tank.
Everyone i know with LPG systems in their car seem to have ongoing issues with driveability and reliability, but it would be intereting to see if an LPG conversion has been done in Italy for the 147, Colin.
Gas is for BBQ's not for cars.
There is plenty of examples of modern alloy engine cars that LPG causes recession of valves.
In my experience the $ saved by using LPG is about 1/10th the cost of long term engine repairs.
It works well though on cast iron engined Ford Falcons.
And in a recent survey on alternative fuels for cars, respondents said that the liked Hybrids, Diesels and Petrol was a well proven fuel, but LPG reminded them of Body Odour, which is the cast iron engine Falcon connection, ever been to a service station on a hot day and there is a line up of Falcons?, its because of the heat, the LPG has frozen up and you cannot fill your car up, not much room under the engine bay in a 147 for all the valves and mixers, Falcon driving LPG powered cars that i know of, have to have the spark plugs and ignition leads once a year to ensure starting, Colin.
Great replies ;D
Yes, it's the drivability and reliability that hinders lpg systems. The system I want to use I have not seen on a modern 'performance' vehicle, it is very simple and very effective ;)
I have been driving my DS for 10yrs on lpg and it runs so much better on gas. Sure it's a tractor compared to the Alfa but I'm not interested in the cost and complication of injected lpg.
Tuning the ignition should see some very nice results with this setup.
Ultimately if the initial setup is good I will delete the petrol system 8)
Harley
I seriously don't know why you would want to run your Twin Spark engine on LPG. The 147 Twin Spark is a jewel of an engine and just sings on 98 RON Premium Unleaded. I get 8.4L/ 100 klms out of mine and I don't try to drive economically. Unless you are short of cash, if so you probably shouldn't own an Alfa, or you have got some strange desire to see how quickly you can destroy an engine I wouldn't even contemplate it. :o
Hmm, i'm struggling to get 10L/100, and filling a tank once a week is daunting!
I will replace timing belts and rebuild the variator to ensure correct operation, I guess and ecu reset is in order...
I think the Alfa taxi will be a gem ;D
On another matter, i watched with great hilarity, the people across the road, try and load a smallish card table into the boot of yes, you guessed it, an AU Falcon, but the card table wouldn't fit because of the LPG gas tank intruding in the boot,
Back when dinosaurs walked the earth and i worked at an engine reconditioners, we used to convert petrol engines to dedicated LPG engines for cabs and such, you needed hardened valves and hardened valve seats in the cylinder heads and different camshafts, as the LPG burns at a different rate than petrol, these dedicated LPG engines used to work quite well and were worth doing, as they would cover hundreds of thousands of kilometres, to justify the cost.
However, doing a LPG fitting to an Petrol engine has its drawbacks, as what duel fuel setups do, you have to have one or the other, not both, the dedicated gas only cars sold by Holden and Ford work quite well, as they have to Australian Design Rules compliant and they have to have a warranty, for example the gas dedicated Falcons, have a setup, that when you open the drivers door the pump starts, and you are not cranking for hours while it builds up pressure, as its ready to go, Colin.
Quote from: Harley on June 25, 2014, 10:54:06 PM
Tuning the ignition should see some very nice results with this setup.
Ultimately if the initial setup is good I will delete the petrol system 8)
Harley
How are you planning to tune the ignition, remap the ECU, replace with megasquirt?
I used to have a 1985 Rangie on LPG and when I bought it it was hopeless on petrol. It would hesitate badly and was low on power. Friends said that was the norm and cars would run well on one or the other but not both. I took it to a dyno and after the guy increased the main jets on the Holley carby by four sizes there was bugger all difference in power or performance on either fuel. The problem, I suspect is that people don't get vehicles dynoed after conversion. Of course it is more complicated with EFI. My brother had an EFI Rangie on gas and that was fine on either fuel too. His had a much better set up with the tank underneath in place of the petrol tank and a small auxiliary petrol tank on the side. Mine had a big LPG tank in the boot which was hopeless. It is a problem with cars too.
You could check some Dutch lpg car sites as, due to the tax system in the Netherlands for virtually every model of car a converter set has been developed, inclusive TS and Busso.
I would love to have my GTV v6 on gas to make it my daily driver, but don't know where to put the tank, other then on the roof.
Thanks guys,
Advice taken, lots of lpg conversions in Europe for 147/156.
Looks like Stag 300 premium is the best, obd connection, self tuning ;-)
I'm currently talking with a Polish supplier of a Stag 300 premium front end kit 8)
Harley
Gutsy move on the 147 Harley. I thought at first you were a Troll !!! haha
Good luck.
Quote from: bloomers1176 on July 01, 2014, 01:54:41 PM
Gutsy move on the 147 Harley. I thought at first you were a Troll !!! haha
;)
I just got trolled by the Twin Spark again! Shell 98 premium, 440k's off a tank! Readout is 8.7km a litre, the tank took 55liters to brim it, that's only 8km per litre!!!!
I got more out of 95 octane. ..
I do drive vigorously, but only as vigorously as one can legally with a 1yr old in the back....
Lpg, all I can say is "there doing it in Europe" ;D
Harley
You must drive very vigorously Harley. I get 600k's per tank out of my 147 Twin Spark using Shell 98 RON. That's 600k's out of 50 litres, I never let it get really low. That equates to 8.33 litres/100 k's.
The kit has been ordered! At an amazing price ;D
Lets just hope my plan works... :-X
Harley
I got 750 klms out of 59 litres in my 156 JTS, nut i drive like an old women.
Keep us informed of your conversion to LPG, something i wouldn't do, but we are all different, hope it will be done by Spectacolo in November, bring it along, it will be the only LPG converted Alfa Romeo there, Colin.
Harley,
I think you must have a hole in your tank.
I regularly get 600km/tank in my 156 V6 (I think the tank holds about 63L), and I drive it like I stole it...
I get about 1,000 8)
More torques than a V6 too
Geez Craig, I know you have a diesel but you must turn off the ignition and put it in neutral going downhill...
Personally, I accept my higher weekly fuel bill as the price of happiness!
err, no. I drive her nuts off. Mileage does vary but I can easily do Sydney (traffic permitting) on a tank.
It's a manual with new B6's and GTA speed-lines, it's a hoot and goes flat out pretty much everywhere. The perfect car for zipping through traffic up and around Brisbane's many hills. I just bought Brembo330's from a GT for the front, and then I might start seriously google mapping it.
Needs a towbar also ;D
Sounds like I should have a go of someone's JTD to see how they feel. Have never driven a diesel other than offroaders.
If you do this, then you are a nut job. An Alfa, so i have learned, is like a great looking women, you dare not touch it, in case you get lucky.
Having come to terms with an Alfa i could not see how you would want to run it on poo gas.
I have worked on my little alfa and got it running smooth as a babys bum. I wasnt going to post for a while but saw this and had to say something.
Great to hear you have got the 147 ticking Bendy. No more nasty thoughts at midnight I hope now!
Quote from: poohbah on September 20, 2014, 07:52:04 PM
Great to hear you have got the 147 ticking Bendy. No more nasty thoughts at midnight I hope now!
Oh i have nasty thoughts at midnight, but not about the car. Trouble is, i seem to get a swift elbow for my troubles.
Quote from: lovemy147 on September 20, 2014, 05:26:18 PM
If you do this, then you are a nut job. An Alfa, so i have learned, is like a great looking women, you dare not touch it, in case you get lucky.
No suprises there, I married a firey french gal ;)
I make an effort to touch her as much as possible! ;D ;D ;D
Here is how I have tapped the gas injector nozzles into the inlet, quick mount injector bosses, and the spacing bolt seen in the pic comes with the kit and matches the thread 8)
(http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q406/bimba101/20141011_162532_zpsf684e62d.jpg) (http://s350.photobucket.com/user/bimba101/media/20141011_162532_zpsf684e62d.jpg.html)
I layed the loom out in the engine bay, it all looks so easy. The only splicing will be to a coil and the ego sensors, the rest is plug and play.
Bring on the poo juice! :P
Btw; I do find these cars like great women, especially older classic cars; they require constant maintenance and their always wet underneath :-*
Harley