In a bit of a bother with my 84 spider veloce that i love to death.
Currently its at a alfa specialist mechanic in sydney, about 5 weeks ago car started to get an intermitent on rare occasions hard to start. gradually got worse.Finally got stuck at work,called NRMA ,they checked battery,alternator, said that they were fine, his opinion was that starter motor was stuffed, finally got going that day by push start re NRMA. To try and shorten this rant, mechanic had starter motor reconditioned, handed over my $ 800,00, off u go. Well after one day problem is back again as before, got stuck at home this time, NRMA man tested alternator,battery,all good. Tried to jump start,no good- then he tapped on starter motor-engine started cranking but no fire up. We were about to try push starting but guess what, i turned the key and she started without help, my mechanic is baffled and im stressed. I treat her like a baby, -the car that is- she has relatively new spark plugs, serviced at regular intervals had even another trusted mechanic give the once over about 3 months ago, all good.
Engine is the 2ltr bosch injection, when running she is silky smooth, but now this gremlin-- any help or knowledge that i can pass to the knowleadgeable and get her back on the road would be very apreciated. regards and happy alfa starting.
I'd start with checking the ignition switch, sounds like bad voltage drop either at the switch or to the main fuse box.
+1 on the ignition switch. Plus I would clean all the major grounds and terminals as well as install a starter relay so that you know you are getting enough current at the starter.
Hi Lombardi, if you havn't you could always give Rob Panetta at Manning Motors a bell to see if has any suggestions for you. Rob from my experience is a really decent and well versed 105 Alfa man. Just a thought.
Starter relay?
It may also be the fuel injection relay - these are famously unreliable in bosch injected cars (not just alfas)
Quote from: lombardi on February 05, 2014, 06:23:43 PM
In a bit of a bother with my 84 spider veloce that i love to death.
Engine is the 2ltr bosch injection, when running she is silky smooth, but now this gremlin--
I had similar dramas for a while with my TwinSpark conversion on my '69 GTV, and it turned out to be the block of four relays fitted beside the battery. The relay sockets accept the spade lugs of the relays, and each one is meant to be locked in to the relay base (see image of female spade lugs below . One of the lugs wasn't locked in, so when the relay was pushed in, it made contact, but wasn't inserted. Needless to say it caused all kinds of mayhem.
TL;DR Check all your ECU wiring, crank sensors, fuel pump wiring. The ECU has ways of knowing whether the engine is ready to start.
(http://i00.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/1251075830_1/Free-Shipping-1000PCS-Suitable-for-font-b-lug-b-font-plate-6-3mm-wiring-terminals-crimp.jpg)
THANKS A MILLION GUYS, this is the kind of thing that makes the forum so valuable, many great minds and invaluable knowledge, can not thank you enough for the response. Have passed on your ideas to my mechanic. regards and grazie grazie u are numero uno.
Quote from: Davidm1600 on February 06, 2014, 10:18:12 AM
Hi Lombardi, if you havn't you could always give Rob Panetta at Manning Motors a bell to see if has any suggestions for you. Rob from my experience is a really decent and well versed 105 Alfa man. Just a thought.
[/quote
]Thanks for the referral David.
I originally saw the start of this thread and first thing that came to mind was the ignition switch.
Was waiting for other responces which were right.
First thing I do recommend to customers is to fit an ignition switch relay and a starter motor relay.
Have replaced many ign switches over the years and always fitted a relay to both the ign switch + starter.
Anything running on the ign switch will go faster= interior fan,wipers etc.
The starter motor relay will give the solenoid a big battery voltage to turn over the starter motor.
Sometimes the battery can have 12.5 volts and the solenoid wire has 8 volts= via the ign switch
And yes,as has been said before= headlight + highbeam relays.
The relays take over the voltage and the relays do all the work= everything works better.Amazing how much voltage drop can be has when the wires have to travel 10 feet =from the battery,to the ign witch,to the fuse box,to the solenoid
You can only recommend relays to customers and most say= do it.
If the above car is a late model Spider,it might have relays fitted already.
If it does not start off the ignition switch,,put a wire straight from battery positive to starter motor solenoid= no voltage drop.
If it starts every time= probable cause is ign switch.
But it could also be the starter motor.
I guess I do read all problems I see written in the forums,but don't usually respond to them...I let others do it...If I see a wrong reply,I usually say something.
Great to see some very knowledgeable people out there with great solutions which are usually correct.
And don't forget to clean battey earths + body to gearbox area earths.
Robert
I was about to suggest you check the earths, but
QuoteAnd don't forget to clean battey earths + body to gearbox area earths.
I was beaten to it ;)
I recently had some similar symptoms with an alfetta, I tracked it down to the battery terminal on the earth lead not having a good electrical contact with the cable.
Fitted a new terminal to the cable, and all manner of electrical gremlins dissappeared!
Of course, I found this
after rebuilding the alternator, but at least before pulling the starter motor out ;D
Quote from: cjheath on February 06, 2014, 11:03:03 AM
I had similar dramas for a while with my TwinSpark conversion on my '69 GTV, and it turned out to be the block of four relays fitted beside the battery. The relay sockets accept the spade lugs of the relays, and each one is meant to be locked in to the relay base (see image of female spade lugs below . One of the lugs wasn't locked in, so when the relay was pushed in, it made contact, but wasn't inserted. Needless to say it caused all kinds of mayhem.
One of those (Some cars have a red line diagonally across the relay from memory) is the FI relay that switches the fuel pump etc when you hit the key.
Another is the starter relay I believe... same same!
QuoteAnother is the starter relay I believe... same same!
No, not a starter relay, although it is involved with the starting process. See this page;
http://www.users.on.net/~craigf/ts_start.htm
No part of the standard TS wiring attaches to the solenoid from my memory. As giulia_veloce has said, relay the starter and the ignition if they do not already have relays. I have recently done this (to an Alfetta GTV) with great results - http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=11901.0
In any case I don't think it's a TS we're talking about here, but since it's being discussed, one of the TS relays has a diode fitted inside it. Trap for young players; they're not standard interchangeble relays.
Yeah, I'm going from my memory of where everything is in a bosch injected 164... Given that this particular variant of spider is very common in the US, there should be plenty of info on the alfabb