Alfa Romeo Owners Club of Australia Forum

I'd like to make the suggestion that there be a change made to the forum before people are allowed to post in the 'Buy/Swap/Sell' section.

On another forum I'm on, you have to have made 30 posts in other discussion areas, before a new member is allowed to post anything for sale in the Buy/Swap/Sell sections. This helps to stop people from joining the forum simply to advertise their stuff to a focused market.

What if the first time poster has a bargain for us?

Yes he might think that what he is selling is worthless, and we could snap it up, some persons that put things up for sale are wreckers and professionals, but if its too expensive, you don't buy it, Colin.

Hi Duk,

It's possible to configure the forum to do this, and we've discussed the idea before but decided not to do it.  But I'm interested to hear more.  Can you talk a bit more about what bothers you about that behaviour (registering just to make a single 'for sale' post)?

thanks,
Evan.

1st of all, I want good cars and parts to go to grateful owners.

But when you see someone who has made 1 post and they've just posted in the Buy/Swap/Sell section, it's clear that they've only joined the forum to sell something.
So if they haven't even had the decency to introduce themselves and contribute to the forum community (right, wrong or indifferently  ;) ), then I really don't care if what they have to sell is an absolute bargain, put that sh!t on eBay, Carsales or Gumtree!

Obviously this is a small forum community compared to other forums. And maybe 30 posts is more than is needed, but the number of '1st posts in the Buy/Swap/Sell section' must be pretty disproportionate compared to other 1st time posts in other areas of the forum.
Even if that number was 20:1 (20 1st posts in other areas to 1 1st post in Buy/Swap/Sell), I think it is BS.

I'm still not getting it. What's the harm that you feel these people are doing? Using up all the available usernames?

Duk - I think your trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

Duk is prob saying that, these fly by nighters add little value to the site, and just "use" us as a freebay. It's a fair point being made, and on bigger/busier sites it could be an issue, but certainly not here at the moment.

I wouldn't say it's not an issue for a number of reasons:-

1.Every new ad reduces the time exposure of the previous ad in the front summary.    This is not helpful.
2. We sell stuff to each other on a "family" trust basis. We know each other and build trust amongst our fellow Forum members. Personally, I go out of my way to fully explain to a potential buyer the pros and cons of the item in question. If that means I do not make the sale, so be it. My conscience is clear and my reputation on the Forum is intact. In the same vein, my purchases from Forum members has transpired along the same lines.
3 A person making a single post has not established any credibility nor trust and such a post is just an opportunistic and free exposure. This is akin to a roadside impulse buy of a car based simply on price and when the shit hits the fan and the vender is long gone, you will be kicking yourself for failing to do all the necessary checks.

I don't necessarily feel that Forum facilitating such postings is acting in the best interest of the members and the eligibility to post in this section should be reviewed.

I see and know exactly what the Dukster is talking about. I am not having a big dummy spit about it but I do support his position.

Useful input thanks MD.  I can see the arguments, even if I don't feel strongly about it.  All I was understanding was "it's not fair" but you've added some reasonable points.

Anybody else got some thoughts for or against?

Myself, I think it should be mandatory that a for sale ad should list a price or range. Otherwise it's just fishing and a discussion (via PM given replies are turned off). The board has multiple forums to discuss or research what something is worth.  If you want to sell it then state clearly what it is, the condition and name a price.

Evan - my counter is a question. If someone has something to sell that is of interest are we saying we don't want them to let our members know just because they aren't part of "the family"?  Wouldn't we prefer to have such things "bought into the family" than actively kept out??

Or maybe we ban the "I've just bought a..." post because they haven't actually contributed yet.

As a new member (and I realise exactly what that is worth), aren't we the people most likely to be interested in these Alfas and parts going up for sale? I agree that we don't want clowns posting junk (can't our moderators just delete these), but by shutting this type of post down, are we denying ourselves bargains and great opportunities? Those posting as a one off may not know exactly what they have or they may just want to offload some stuff quickly (ie selling their mums mint old alfa now that she drives a yaris, deceased estates or just time to clean out the shed) for example. It doesn't appear to be overtaking the forum at the moment (from what I've seen) but maybe some concrete rules now will prevent issues later. Maybe for a first time poster, they send their message to a moderator and the they upload the add - if they approve - could be pasted into the sticky thread on by/sell rules) otherwise they earn their stripes with 5 or 10 posts first. My 2bob.

Quote from: DHDamo on December 08, 2013, 04:05:27 PM
As a new member (and I realise exactly what that is worth), aren't we the people most likely to be interested in these Alfas and parts going up for sale? I agree that we don't want clowns posting junk (can't our moderators just delete these), but by shutting this type of post down, are we denying ourselves bargains and great opportunities? Those posting as a one off may not know exactly what they have or they may just want to offload some stuff quickly (ie selling their mums mint old alfa now that she drives a yaris, deceased estates or just time to clean out the shed) for example. It doesn't appear to be overtaking the forum at the moment (from what I've seen) but maybe some concrete rules now will prevent issues later. Maybe for a first time poster, they send their message to a moderator and the they upload the add - if they approve - could be pasted into the sticky thread on by/sell rules) otherwise they earn their stripes with 5 or 10 posts first. My 2bob.

This along the lines of my thinking for people who join the forum for the purpose of moving on cars and/or parts.
A prerequisite of a common courtesy introduction of themselves to the forum group and if they are here only for the purpose of selling stuff, a clear statement that that is what they are here for.

It seams to me, to be a bit strange when we allow any ol' Tom/Dick/Harry (no offense intended) to post in the 'Buy/Swap/Sell' section, but producers and parts importers, who ultimately do more for the community (and may not be able to run or keep up to date a website) aren't permitted to post in the section, because it's private sales only.

IMO price should be stated (can be negotiable), and condition. Do this to save forum fights, and more importantly to help protect members from anything dodgy. It would be risky to buy from a new member, unless you can inspect/take delivery of items in person.

I tend to agree with Duk's sentiments.

You see it time and again, first post is in the classifieds. Tough to find a workable solution though.

As others have mentioned, I would enforce a "must state price" policy. A number of other forums I subscribe to have this in place and it stops the price fishing,
underground bidding war that can otherwise eventuate.

You know the, "Gee i have xxx ...was thinking of selling .. not sure what it's worth...anyone have an idea? blah blah blah" ......

Cheers,

Paul.

Being on both sides of the fence, my opinion (for what it's worth) is that there should be at least an introductory post requirement. I got pinged for it when I first listed my NOS GTV6 stuff years ago and I agreed that I should have introduced myself for the benefit of the community.

I also bought my GTV on a 'first post' from a seller and I guess I got lucky - my wife begs to differ. But I think one should at least post their details to avoid scammers advertising for the sake of 'fishing' for the overly trusting members on here.

I don't necessarily agree with price being a definite must (if interested then ask the seller and work it out that way) - I do however really like the current announce only setup which prevents thread shutdowns and derailment.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.
Lets encourage everybody to post regardless.
If you don't like what they have advertised.......vote with your mouse and don't respond.
If you are upset that your add has slipped down the list.......'bump it'. Not too hard.

QuoteIf it ain't broke don't fix it.

Gary,

Isn't that what the discussion is about?
Why create all the diversionary tactics around an ad that shouldn't there?

I really don't see any problems on this forum, but I haven't been here very long.

Well, here's my 2 bobs worth...
I tend to agree with DUK's sentiment and MD's points. I have in the past reported one (maybe 2) post by signal posters who were simply trying to drum up business. I think one was advertising insurance, one of my pet hates. I noticed it was their only post and thought no friggin way, so I reported it.  >:(
But we need to look more objectively at this issue. As a forum, we are in a virtual community of Alfa enthusiasts. AROCA has forum members Oz wide and is constantly growing, along with many guest viewers also watching our threads. I believe the removal of adding comments on the advertising section was a good move, as it did away with any and all negative input which some of us can't help ourselves but to post. To add further prerequisites, we start to create an elitist forum where newbies will be put off from joining. Even if it's just to post an item for sale, as long as its Alfa related, I don't personally see an issue, just because it's on here, doesn't mean it's above board either. I would and do have an issue on advertising items non Alfa related though, I certainly haven't joined the forum to be bombarded by BS advertising. Hopefully the one time poster may return and become an Uncle Col Col to impart their wisdom and knowledge on all things LUCAS.  8)
It really becomes more of how one uses the functions within the forum. I don't agree with MD's point of exposure of ones ad as I for one am a regular user of the 'show unread pots since last visit', and yes all new threads for buy/swap/sell come up, but if it holds no interest to me, I don't look it up. If it does, and I want to keep an eye on it I hit the notify button to find it later and keep informed on its progress.
A price requirement? Yeah a price would be nice, I for one would like a price up front, but if there is none I am just less likely to enquire about an item. So it's the posters loss on my part.
So the upshot for me is, leave the thread as is, however require new members joining to introduce themselves within a time frame or face having their membership revoked. In a sense this becomes a one post requirement.  ???

Some very good points there cool jesus.  I agree, especially re not wishing this forum to be elitist, and also surely as a new poster to the forum, it is a nice way of introducing yourself and your interests/ownership whatever re Alfas.   

Personally I like to see what a seller thinks his/her part(s) are worth or at least astarting price for negotation.  Ads that don't have a price as a rule don't interest me, and hence we both miss out.

My one personal gripe with the forsale-wanted section, and I accept the no comment thing on forsale items, is that in respect of wanted ads.

It seems illogical to me that one cannot add comments, for the only way you can provide such advice currently to let someone know about where perhaps find a part (whether or not you have said part) or to fix to a problem is to PM someone.  My point here is that you actually are doing  forum members a service if you know where to find a part that someone may need, as others also might.  However, by limiting such a function to PM to the poster only is limiting.

One alternative could be perhaps to split this section and limit forsales ads to no comments but wanted ads to permit comment to be added.   Surely a thought worth considering.

 

Too much writing for not much of a problem I say.
Who's to say what is of interest to whom MD. Who should adudicate? Everytime you look at any site on the Web someone is trying to advertise their wares.
It's just not a biggie IMO.

I agree it's not a biggie Gary.  I've also looked and it's not a biggie to have the forum software require the person to have made one post before allowing a post in the classifieds section.  So it wouldn't add any administrative overhead (Brad introduced this rule before, but enforced it manually and that causes more pain than it's worth).  I don't think restricting it is completely unfair either.

I'd like to get some quantitative input, so I've added a poll to this topic.  The options are 'No' - leave things as they are, or 'Yes' - require a single post somewhere else on the forum before a new user can post in the for sale section.

I'll check the numbers later in the week, and try to come to a conclusion on this one.

Without wanting to bring another user into it I think it highlights why we shouldn't restrict posting to verified members.

http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=11716.0

The above advertisement is a whole heap of useful and hard to find parts for a berlina.
As the owner of 3x older vehicles, advertisements like this are a goldmine.
Sure it's the guys first post but having to make several posts or wait a period before posting scares people off and make advertising on here more trouble than its worth. I'm often in a similar position (but from the other side) when looking for cars and parts on websites that allow for member only viewing comined with a cooling off period or minimum posts just to LOOK at the buy/sell section.
Most of the time these ads on our forum are useful and help keep cars on the road.
Just food for thought.
Andrew

Werdna, glad you chimed in. It was enough to sway my vote for the poll (not that it's definitive at this stage). I've been on the forum for near 2 years, and have at most only noticed 1 or 2 questionable adverts. I then read your post along with the starting post and it really distinguishes what the forum that requires 30 posts is missing out on. It takes a certain character to feel the need to join a group, let alone impart any thoughts one might have. I would never have dreamed of joining a forum, until I came into Alfa ownership and needed assistance, which came in bucket loads.
I've stated earlier that at most, maybe an intro post, but even so I don't see any issue with the thread as is. It's not to say that this thread is a waste. That's what a forum is for, to discuss ideas and it's good for the administrators to see whether the members are content or if changes need to be made. Keep the posts coming troops, no such thing as a stupid question, knowledge is power.

agreed, werdna makes compelling argument

Always Looking For Another , and if someone can help regular forum users find the car they are after or a part to help complete a resto I am personally not fussed if they have posted before.

It is after all a public forum and there a rules in place to be followed. I would draw the line at excessive or commercial use of Buy/Swap/Sell but I believe that is already the case.

I recently rescued a collection of workshop manuals most of which were no use to me and was able to help out a few guys on the Historic Commercial Vehicle Club of Australia forum. Items were listed on eBay and links provided , I also offered the forum users a discount if they wanted them.

As in life a little etiquette goes a long way...

I can't see any problem with the way it is. Requiring 30 posts would seem a bit elitist to me and, as others have said, we might miss out on some bargains or useful stuff. I would like us to be seen as a friendly, welcoming group of people. One of the great things about AROCA is that there is very little, if any snobbery amongst the membership.

65% of poll respondents voted 'no', so we'll continue the way things are.

Thanks for the input folks.

I really don't have anything interesting or informative to add to this discussion - I'm just building up my number of 'posts' in case one day there is a quota if I want to sell or swap some of the Alfetta GTV parts I've collected over the years. Personally I don't care how active a forum member has been - if they have a hard-to-find part at a good price and I need it then the forum has extra value for me.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm  ??? ??? ???

http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=12158.0

Is that Vince Bachu? He's in the UK isn't he?

Quote from: GoldfieldsGTV on January 28, 2014, 07:08:59 PM
I really don't have anything interesting or informative to add to this discussion - I'm just building up my number of 'posts' in case one day there is a quota if I want to sell or swap some of the Alfetta GTV parts I've collected over the years. Personally I don't care how active a forum member has been - if they have a hard-to-find part at a good price and I need it then the forum has extra value for me.

As another newbie, I have to agree 100%
I am also a member of another one make car club who are lager than the Alfa Romeo Owners club and they do not have restrictions. If the price is right and I need it I will pay, if its overpriced I wont, simple.

Thanks for the comments AndrewR, as we determined earlier the majority of folk agree with you.  I'm going to close this thread now and consider the matter settled.

Duk: there is a forum feature to report posts if you feel they are inappropriate, there are multiple moderators on the board and they can review your complaint and act accordingly.