Hi guys.My 159 has 105000 km on the clock and clutch is changed on 88000.Today a strange noise came when pressing the clutch like ringing, squeling.Can hear it only with window open starts approx 3-4 cm from when I press the clutch and goes all the way down till I release it.Otherwise gear change is same, car runs smooth as before, nothing else unusual.Anyone else with the same experience or any idea whats wrong? Just hope and pray for a small bill.Any help much appreciated. THANKS
Hello Nikola, sounds like a clutch bearing on the way out, when you push the clutch pedal the slave cylinder pushes on the bearing which then touches the clutch pressure plate, no good news, if it is bearing, then its gearbox out to get to bearing, whenever you have new clutch put in, put in a complete clutch kit, 1. friction plate, 2. pressure plate, 3. clutch bearing, 4. clutch slave cylinder, could be a dual mass flywheel as well, don't know much about these, never changed one, won't be a small bill, thats for sure, or turn the radio up louder or buy some earplugs, Colin.
Im getting worried now..going tomorrow to Maranello Pur-Sang for a check up.Hope its nothing major. :-\
If you are taking it to Marranello Pursang Motors it will be in good hands, squealing clutches usually mean gearbox out and new clutch assembly, tell us how you go, Colin.
Went ones there just for a advice after cleaning Egr and throttle body and putting a restrictor plate..was suprised how friendly and helpful they were.Its very hard to find good and thrustfull mechanics these days.Hope they wont let me down.I will let you know of the outcome..just hope its not four zeros ::)
Nikola
I assure you absolutely (perhaps with my life) that all the Alfa club sponsors such as Maranello, Monza and Mauceri are all trustworthy and know their stuff, just mention you are a club member. Given they are all members and two are life members in fact. On an average day, you will club members at the workshop visiting.
So don't worry.
Neil
You would take your Alfa to any of our club sponsors, because they know their Alfa Romeo's, as that what the work on all the time, don't even think about taking your car to a franchised service centre, as the chances of them ever having worked on an Alfa is low, i was talking once to a service centre / tyre seller and he noticed that i had an Alfa and he mentioned he never works on them, as they are too difficult and only works on cars that regulary come through the workshop, ie Mazda 3's, Camry's, etc, you always see Alfa Club members at Marranello Pursang, Monza and Mauceri, it must tell you something, Colin.
Hi guys.I went there this morning, noise was there in the morning but while driving to Brunswick it was gone, one of the guys there looked after me, took a car for a spin but couldnt hear anything.He told me of a couple of possibilities of what might be wrong and if it comes again I have to go back there. :-[ At least ive booked a service for next month and I think ill stick to this guys taking care of my Alfa, I feel confident with them for some reason.
Was suprised they dont use Selenia in the engine, he told me they use Martini motor oil which is designed for European cars.To be honest, ive never heard of that oil (even that I came from Europe 4 years ago) so just wondering if any of you have used that one and how is 2.4 jtdm behaving with it.Cause since I own the car I never added oil in it, ones Ive changed it and not a single drop missing.Previous owner used Selenia 5/40 wr, my choise was Liqui Moly 5/40 Toptech.Just want to be on a safe side, you know.Thanks
Service Providers use the oil they know very well and does the job, Martini has a long tradition of support for Italian racing cars, just don't like me, confuse Martini oils for Martini the alcoholic beverage maker.
Alfa Romeo dealers use Selenia oils because Fiat own Alfa Romeo and Selenia oils, that is the only oil that Alfa Romeo recomends, in the olden days of the 33, when Alfa Romeo was owned by the Italian Goverment, they recomended, Agip, Shell, Mobil, IP, or any oil that is good quality with the right specifications, i use Mobil, Castrol, Valvoline, Penrite, Shell and Martini oil in my 156, the main thing with oil is that it is the right specs and viscosity and it changed regulary.
The clutch bearing must have found some grease to shut it up, Colin
Quote from: colcol on June 21, 2013, 09:40:16 PM
Hello Nikola, sounds like a clutch bearing on the way out, when you push the clutch pedal the slave cylinder pushes on the bearing which then touches the clutch pressure plate, no good news, if it is bearing, then its gearbox out to get to bearing, whenever you have new clutch put in, put in a complete clutch kit, 1. friction plate, 2. pressure plate, 3. clutch bearing, 4. clutch slave cylinder, could be a dual mass flywheel as well, don't know much about these, never changed one, won't be a small bill, thats for sure, or turn the radio up louder or buy some earplugs, Colin.
No good news.. its the flywheel :-\ :'(
If its good news, then its a clutch bearing, as they may cost $50???, a dual mass flywheel is a lot more money than that, there are some auto spare parts places that sell 'normal' flywheels to replace the dual mass flywheels as the owners baulk at the cost of a new one, but the dual mass flywheels are better than a normal one, thats why the fitted them in the first place.
Ford in Europe started fitting dual mass flywheels to their diesel models to make them more acceptable to people who normally wouldn't buy a diesel, i assume that the 159 has a dual mass flywheel?, i would put money on it, but sorry i don't know much about them, Colin.
Went back to Maranelo today as the sound came back, they say its definitely the flywheel.Gave me some absurd price for the last one they ordered from Italy,but God bless eb spares, ive mailed them while I was there and just got the quote of £420 delivered which is not bad at all and its couple of times less then what ive heard.Clutch set has been changed before about 20000 km, so im not sure if should I change everything again or just the flywheel.Anyway the clutch needs to be opened.Scared the labour might cost me more then the parts this time...lots of questionmarks in my head now ::)
Hey Nicola78, 420 quid from EB sounds good, did you get any prices locally?, the dual mass flywheel is like 2 flywheels in one to smooth out pulses from diesel engines and to stop the gears rattling, like the harmonic balancer on the other end of the motor, it smooths things out, but doesn't last forever, one of the reasons diesel engines are now acceptable for luxury cars, where 40 years ago they were only for trucks and taxi's, Colin.
Hey Nikola78
Does EB Spares provide warranty for the part if it fails?
The labour to remove and re-fit the gearbox will, like you mentioned cost more than the actual part itself. You'd hope it doesn't fail within 12 months and not have a warranty for it. You'll be up for more money in labour and a new part again.
Not saying that it will fail, but you always have to be careful with purchasing big ticket items overseas as if they do fail, there is no warranty on the item.
As Colin mentioned, did you try any parts places locally? Was it a Dual Mass Flywheel, or just a single one like others put on to save some $$ even thought it's wrong and will cause problems in the future?
Hi AR75,
just got confirmation mail from Eb that it is a dual mass one and ive sent them back question on warranty.As I know they dont have it in stock here, someones car got stuck with open gearbox for a month at Maranelos until they received the DMF from overseas (poor guy).I think even I find it here it wont be under $1500, even with warranty Ill still have topay for opening again labour if something happens so dont think it will be less than $3000 I reckon. :'( Just wondering should I change the clutch too or not (changed approx 20000 km ago) >:(
Nikola, i would change the clutch and the slave cylinder as well, keep the old clutch for a rainy day, i have a rule at my place, gearbox out, new clutch assembly goes in, when i was young, i replaced a clutch plate and not the pressure plate, and 12 months later the pressure plate stuffed up, so i did the job twice, i think back then in the olden days, the clutches were quite expensive compared to now and no choice of brands and no internet, Colin.
Quote from: AR753.0ltr on July 01, 2013, 08:14:02 AM
Hey Nikola78
Does EB Spares provide warranty for the part if it fails?
The labour to remove and re-fit the gearbox will, like you mentioned cost more than the actual part itself. You'd hope it doesn't fail within 12 months and not have a warranty for it. You'll be up for more money in labour and a new part again.
Not saying that it will fail, but you always have to be careful with purchasing big ticket items overseas as if they do fail, there is no warranty on the item.
As Colin mentioned, did you try any parts places locally? Was it a Dual Mass Flywheel, or just a single one like others put on to save some $$ even thought it's wrong and will cause problems in the future?
Hey Nikola,
I've sourced several parts for my 147 from EB Spares, including shocks, bumps stops and track rod ends (Alfa make you buy a whole new steering rack). Never had one single issue with any part that EB Spares supplied. Yes, your mechanic won't provide a warranty for it, but the risk with EB parts is quite small. Many, many Alfa owners here in Oz have used EB repeatedly. I will definitely use them again for the 147.
I have a 159 too, but it has the six speed auto :P (don't think there would be a need for a dual mass flywheel and torque converter).
Andrew
Those guys seems very professional. .answered all my questions in an hour by mail, made the order this afternoon and just received the confirmation that flywheel has bewn shipped, got tracking number with DHL and shipping costs just £45 which is not bad at all for 12 kilos.And it will be here for 3-6 days amazingly. They say is genuine Alfa part.If everything is ok like it seems ill deal with them again for sure.
I have a 159 too, but itshas the six speed auto (don't think there would be a need for a dual mass flywheel and torque converter).
Ive tried couple of autos before I bought this one...believe me you dont know what you are missing on ;D
Prefering a 6 speed manual to a slush box that does the shifting for you, Nikola you are a true Alfa driver, Colin.
If EB says its an original Alfa part, it will be.
My 159 is the first auto I've ever owned. My wife and I prefer manuals and were in the market for a 159 JTDm manual, but we simply couldn't go past the auto as the car had been so well kept.
I must say as automatics go, the 159 is a ripper, a 6 speed Japanese Aisin as used by everyone and not much goes wrong, and no Dual Mass Flywheel to worry about, just a trusty torque convertor, Colin.
Going on monday to Maranelos for a service..still thinking whether i should trust Martini oil or buy Castrol or Selenia maybe ???
Trust Martini oil 100%, they wouldn't use it if it was no good, there is a lot of hype about oil, the worst things about oil is not changing it and leaving it in for too long, each workshop has their own preference for oil brands, i use all different brands in my car, Martini, Castrol, Shell, Mobil, Valvoline , Penrite, Fuchs and BP, as long as they comply with the various Automotive standards for your car, it should be good, Colin.
Quote from: Nikola78 on July 05, 2013, 05:48:00 PM
Going on monday to Maranelos for a service..still thinking whether i should trust Martini oil or buy Castrol or Selenia maybe ???
Stop thinking, Maranello uses Martini for a very obvious reason, how do you think they have developed their (good) reputation., they have used Martini for a long long time.
Plus Martini oils are pretty cool, it is BLUE.
The oil is blue, but you also get a Martini racing sticker on your back windscreen, some workshops use a particular brand of oil, because it suits the cars they service, some brands of oil don't manufacture a particular grade of oil to suit Alfa Romeo's, with Martini being an Italian brand, they have the Alfa Romeo range covered, if you go to a franchised dealer, they use the common brands cheap oils which may not suit your car, Colin.
Quote from: colcol on July 05, 2013, 09:47:05 PM
...with Martini being an Italian brand...
I may have this wrong, I'm sure you'll let me know. I think Martini Racing Products - suppliers of racing fuels and various lubricants - is an Australian company. My (perhaps feeble) googling skills can find no trace of them anywhere else in the world, but I could be wrong. My bet is that the association with the famous Martini Racing brand (liquor manufacturer who continue to sponsor rallying and racing) is doing a very good job.
Quite similar to the other night when I explained to an Alfa driver that the tuning company Autodelta UK is
NOT in any a continuation of Autodelta SpA the Alfa factory racing department. Autodelta UK has been benefiting from that association since the late 80s, and good on them! Chutzpah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chutzpah).
Side note: This website is full of awesome: http://www.martiniracing.com/ (hint: scroll down, and keep scrolling).
Back on topic - Bruno and Giancarlo have been using the Martini Racing Products oils in my cars for years, several different grades depending on the degree of race/modern/sh*tbox car I've had in there. I've never seen any ill-effect, but then my sex drive hasn't increased nor has my hair started to grow back either. I'm skeptical of the perceived difference between oils, as long as you're buying a good premium brand within the recommended specification. Bottom line - I'm happy with the Martini oils.
Ok ok guys..I wont bother with oils anymore 8) Just want my Alfa to get best possible treatment and ill go for the blue one then.:) Just an update on a dmf..its already in Melbourne in just 3 days, which is amasing.Total cost was $720 (bloody dollar going down these days-otherwise even cheaper)delivered on the door by DHL ;)From now on everything I buy for my 159 will be from them.Top level communication(was informed by dhl on every step that my flywheel was on customs check up airport etc), quick delivery, genuine product, Eb spares are highly recommended by me to everyone on this forum.
Another thing I want to do on my Alfa is a full detailing of the body.Any recommendations qbout a good detailer that you dealed with and a approximate price anyone??
Keep revving,
Nikola
Eb Spares are great along with the Alfa Workshop in the UK, the Alfa Workshop actually service cars as well, and they have tips on their website for fitting of parts, i have ordered parts from Australia and from the UK on the same day and have got the parts from the UK before the local ones arrive, i have found that the minute the parts are paid for they are on their way to Australia, no sitting around waiting for a taxi truck run.
For detailing, you could try club member Martin Sifredi, who is organising a body shop restoration night next Friday at Extreme Body Repairs, call Martin on 0425-735-814, Colin.
Got the sticker :) diesel oil that they use is definitely NOT blue >:( and Martini is an Aussie brand ;)
Its a good sticker too!, Always thought that Martini was Italian, [because i confuse it with Martini the Italian drink maker], always learn things from the Forum, how did you go with the Dual Mass Flywheel?, Colin.
Dmf still waiting in my garage due to other expenses at the moment (and the minor service wasnt cheap at all) Anyway, I thought not to change it straight away since the clutch is not worn yet and I dont think that dmf can cause a bigger issue except the noise (subwoofer in the boot helps so far :) so use this clutch for 10000km more if it doesnt get worse and ill change the full clutch set then.
Finally day has come for a flywheel(and possibly clutch set).159 left at the mechanic, gotta pick it up on monday.
Fingers crossed :)
Quote from: Nikola78 on July 01, 2013, 08:14:50 PM
Hi AR75,
just got confirmation mail from Eb that it is a dual mass one and ive sent them back question on warranty.As I know they dont have it in stock here, someones car got stuck with open gearbox for a month at Maranelos until they received the DMF from overseas (poor guy).I think even I find it here it wont be under $1500, even with warranty Ill still have topay for opening again labour if something happens so dont think it will be less than $3000 I reckon. :'( Just wondering should I change the clutch too or not (changed approx 20000 km ago) >:(
Hi Nikola,
I am new to this forum and this reply may not benefit you (cause by now you should have your problem fixed) anyway go back to EBSpare experience that i have and would be good for me to share it here with fellow Alfisti. Here in Malaysia we have alot of folks dealt with EBSpare and are very comfortable with them (Kevin is the owner/manager i believe) but when it comes to warranty, usually buyer will be out of luck. i bought a set of upper and lower wishbone from them ended only the top is TRW and bottom is some refurbished look alike and when i wanted to claim the warranty... guess what? well it wasn't successful. couple of reason, first is you have to pay for shipping, they will reimburse only if their part sold to you is at fault. They will determine if its a faulty part or is an assembly problem or if its a user problem. i had lots of email back and forth Kevin and finally decided to suck it up and change a new set of TRW lower arm here in Malaysia. Ended up not saving money (EBSpare is very cheap) at all, not to mention all the hassle.
my advise is buy local and have them assemble and if anything goes wrong just go back to them for the fix and no finger pointing opportunity.
Just to add my 2 cents worth.....
Also be mindful that Alfa do sell Re-Conditioned Dual Mass Flywheel units. Some vendors might sell them as Brand New, even though they clearly have the Re-Conditioned part number on it. Even the dealers here have the Reco units. Brand new are over $2500, reco about $1800, so just clarify with them which one it. is.
So in Howe155 experience, that may have been the case it may not have been, but i just thought i would let everyone one know that it does happen. Same thing with their 105 brake master cylinders, we've been getting a lot of customers calling advising the cylinders they're buying out of the UK are failing within a 3 month period and buying the ones we have and they don't have any problems with them.
I'm in no way trying to blame other vendors, just so people by locally. I am just passing on information that i receive from people in the Alfa community and feel that we should pass it on to other club members as we are club supporters and feel that Alfa owners would appreciate it.
Cheers
Dom