Alfa Romeo Owners Club of Australia Forum

Technical => 932 Series (156, GTV, Spider, 147, GT, and 166) => Topic started by: Mnolan on January 30, 2013, 01:36:48 PM

Title: Key replacement
Post by: Mnolan on January 30, 2013, 01:36:48 PM
Hi just wanted to share, I was told by the dealer that it was not possible to copy a key if you don't have the master, wrong, I tried all the locksmiths in Canberra with no luck, and then tried a small business in Queanbeyan, cost me $120 but it works fine.
Title: Re: Key replacement
Post by: Steve S on January 30, 2013, 02:17:54 PM
Does your old key continue to work too?
Title: Re: Key replacement
Post by: Mnolan on January 30, 2013, 03:22:22 PM
 I wanted a spare as the dealer told me that I would be up for $4500 if I lost my key. Both keys work fine.
Title: Re: Key replacement
Post by: Neil Choi on January 30, 2013, 04:33:13 PM
Quote from: Mnolan on January 30, 2013, 03:22:22 PM
I wanted a spare as the dealer told me that I would be up for $4500 if I lost my key. Both keys work fine.

Pardon my misunderstanding, so the dealer is quoting to supply you with a spare car to fit your existing key!!!

Correct me if I am wrong.
Title: Re: Key replacement
Post by: Mr156_2.0 on January 30, 2013, 09:12:46 PM
Sounds like they are selling a complete car. I got an engine for $700 so I guess for that much it is for a whole car
Title: Re: Key replacement
Post by: colcol on January 30, 2013, 09:41:32 PM
With out of control prices like that, i wonder if dealers ever think why they don't sell any spare parts, and everyone is buying from Ebay and the UK, i purchased a genuine Commodore remote key the other day for $120, why is Alfa's so expensive?, they most likely all come out of the same Bosch factory, Colin.
Title: Re: Key replacement
Post by: Neil Choi on January 30, 2013, 09:59:37 PM
All figured out. 

The dealer is going to supply you with a 24K GOLD key which is about 3 ounces in weight (I just weigh mine, I have a 5 figure balance), at the current gold price of ~$1500/ounce, that is about right, $4500.  Plus you will need to have it programmed to your car.  So I guess the dealer is not a stealer after all.

Regards and guess I was wrong after all.  My apologies.

Oh be ware, 24K gold is a bit soft but won't rust.
Title: Re: Key replacement
Post by: Mr156_2.0 on January 31, 2013, 06:42:57 AM
I think it is diamond encrusted as well with a bunch of class D emerald cut
Title: Re: Key replacement
Post by: Mr156_2.0 on January 31, 2013, 06:44:48 AM
Lesson learned. Break you key, buy a new car. The key on a Alfa is so important. It's a main part of the engine. Buy the sounds of it I would rather my car start to burn oil then break my key
Title: Re: Key replacement
Post by: Mnolan on January 31, 2013, 07:03:39 AM
Yeh I know it sounds unbelievable they told me they would need to replace the whole computer security system, I'm no tech head I not sure why it had to be so hard. If that was the case, you loose your key and then have to throw away the car. Not sure i have a lot of faith in dealers but what other options do we have .
Title: Re: Key replacement
Post by: dehne on January 31, 2013, 11:51:08 AM
I had a key cut for my 156 for about 8 bucks, although this did not start the car on its own when I put the fob near it it worked, so in looking at a way to alter it, will post if I find one
Title: Re: Key replacement
Post by: Cool Jesus on January 31, 2013, 12:33:38 PM
A lost key certainly isn't the end of the life of your beloved Alfa, although as many may, only having one transponder key is walking along that fine line. At worst, if you only have one transponder, there are locksmiths that can replicate a spare key with chip for the $$$ mentioned here, there are threads about for this. The $120 odd price sounds ok to me to have an immobilised Alfa. Dehne I've seen a post somewhere where an owner removed the chip from his one and only key and secured it near the transponder ring. He pointed out, obviously, that immobiliser function was effectively gone, however you could then cut any amount of $8 spares to start the car. If the key has alarm and central lock buttons, there's also aftermarket than can remedy this quite cheaply too,  albeit you now have an alarm fob attached to the key ring.
I'm currently running the gauntlet with only one transponder key for my Spider. Hopefully I'll get around to duplicating it before its lost, otherwise I'll be looking at a new ecu boxes with keys from a wrecker. Alternatively you could look at a whole salvage car for the same money and have a shit load of spares to boot as I've done with a 147.
Title: Re: Key replacement
Post by: Mr156_2.0 on January 31, 2013, 12:35:23 PM
I have bought a key 2nd hand exactly like mine. The series 1 156 red rubbish. I want to see if someone can cut the key part and install it. Then adjust the frequency till it works to unlock the doors. It can't be impossible and it can't cost that much.
Title: Re: Key replacement
Post by: Cool Jesus on January 31, 2013, 01:00:26 PM
Whereabouts in NSW are you?
Title: Re: Key replacement
Post by: Mr156_2.0 on January 31, 2013, 01:07:17 PM
Who?
Title: Re: Key replacement
Post by: Cool Jesus on January 31, 2013, 01:11:34 PM
Quote from: Mr156_2.0 on January 31, 2013, 01:07:17 PM
Who?
Sorry, that was directed at you. I'll get of my iPhone and go to a terminal, pain in the rear doing this on the phone. If your in Sydney ill post a couple of good locksmiths that may help you. But your looking at upwards of $100 for your particular fix.
Title: Re: Key replacement
Post by: Mr156_2.0 on January 31, 2013, 01:15:00 PM
Yes please. I'm in the Fairfield area
Title: Re: Key replacement
Post by: Steve S on January 31, 2013, 01:37:45 PM
Quote from: Mnolan on January 30, 2013, 03:22:22 PM
I wanted a spare as the dealer told me that I would be up for $4500 if I lost my key. Both keys work fine.

Did they just "copy" the key you took in or did they have it programed to the car? I would assume these cars have a rolling code, can anyone confirm?

Title: Re: Key replacement
Post by: Cool Jesus on January 31, 2013, 02:24:16 PM
Yes the 156 came out with the rolling code, doing away with the master key setup. As such, I believe reprogramming extra keys required a diagnostic tool, not sure if using the security codes achieves the same result.

Try these Locksmiths to get a feel for pricing. The key blade and a new copied transponder should hopefully not be an issue for them, mind you the above may prove otherwise. Getting the alarm buttons to work will most likely require a diagnostic console at a dealer or Alfa mechanic to accept the button codes for the alarm... haven't really researched that side of key copying mind you (at least you should be able to key lock and start the car).

Here's a handful to get you started, let us know how you go with the keyless entry part of your predicament. There isn't much available on the web regarding this issue.

http://www.prvlocksmiths.com.au/services/ (http://www.prvlocksmiths.com.au/services/)

http://www.cslocksmiths.com.au/cs-automotive-locksmiths-sydney (http://www.cslocksmiths.com.au/cs-automotive-locksmiths-sydney)

http://www.bensonslocksmiths.com.au/page/auto_transponder_keys.html (http://www.bensonslocksmiths.com.au/page/auto_transponder_keys.html)
Title: Re: Key replacement
Post by: Cool Jesus on January 31, 2013, 02:24:56 PM
Here's a couple more

http://www.innerwestsecurity.com/inw_wp/Pages/INW/Automotive.aspx/ (http://www.innerwestsecurity.com/inw_wp/Pages/INW/Automotive.aspx/)

http://www.hitechautoelectrical.com.au/new_car_keys.html (http://www.hitechautoelectrical.com.au/new_car_keys.html)
Title: Re: Key replacement
Post by: Mr156_2.0 on January 31, 2013, 02:48:41 PM
thanks ill give it a go and let you know what happens
Title: Re: Key replacement
Post by: festy on January 31, 2013, 03:17:53 PM
I wonder if an approach similar to the original playstation's mod chip would work on the immobiliser?
From my (limited) reading, the ECU requests a "code message" from the immobiliser, which replies with an encrypted version of the key's transponder ID.
The ECU decrypts this and checks if the ID matches one of the key IDs programmed in (stored in i2c eeprom).
If it matches, the ECU replies with an unencrypted "All OK" message to the immobiliser, which will then let the car start etc.
So maybe all it would take is a small device that sends the "All OK" message to the immobiliser repeatedly?
   
Title: Re: Key replacement
Post by: Mr156_2.0 on January 31, 2013, 03:56:05 PM
Yes could do.
Title: Re: Key replacement
Post by: Mnolan on January 31, 2013, 07:45:22 PM
The replacement key that I had cut works the imobalizer, central locking and starts the car.
Title: Re: Key replacement
Post by: Cool Jesus on January 31, 2013, 09:57:28 PM
Well thats pretty good value for $120 MNolan. Not sure how that compares with other marque transponders, but sounds alright from what I've been reading.
What car?
Does it look like an Alfa key or different?
Title: Re: Key replacement
Post by: dehne on January 31, 2013, 11:11:15 PM
Mr156
I broke the key for my 156, but I fixed it by getting a plain key cut, then I used a grinder to cut the end so I could fit it into the fob, I have a thread some where on here with pics how I did it, I will try to find it when I get home and have the laptop handy
Title: Re: Key replacement
Post by: Mnolan on February 01, 2013, 08:25:09 AM
Yes it looks like an Alfa key, they had to order it in, exactly the same size and shape. The point is that I now have two fobs, I have put the original in a safe place and am using the clone. I have a 1999 spider.
Title: Re: Key replacement
Post by: wantok on February 25, 2013, 07:47:24 AM
Had to get a genuine replacement key for my 147 2lt TS last year from Euromarque in Brisbane.
Cost $450.00 including coding which was well worth it for my peace of mind as my old key was starting to play up.

Sold the car 6 months later and got a 147 GTA which of course only has one key!!!!
Title: Re: Key replacement
Post by: Cool Jesus on February 25, 2013, 08:19:58 AM
I know!!! What is it with second hand Alfas and only one key!
Title: Re: Key replacement
Post by: colcol on February 25, 2013, 08:57:21 PM
If you plan on selling your Alfa, you wouldn't spend $450 on a new key, as you will never get back the $450, something some people don't think about when buying a second hand car, how many keys does it have?, Colin.
Title: Re: Key replacement
Post by: Mr156_2.0 on March 17, 2013, 09:58:57 PM
I had two when I bought the car but apparently my father lost the other 1. Sure you did dad. Just wana pinch the car for a sunday drive when I'm not looking. He said he will keep it in a safe place so I don't loose it. Well he was right. I didn't he did.
Title: Re: Key replacement
Post by: Craig_m67 on March 18, 2013, 11:38:24 AM
Has anybody had any luck getting the keycode (code card ?) and key diagram from Alfa ?? 
In the UK you could just ask for it at any dealers and they would provide a copy (for a small admin cost).