stupid transaxle question

[poohbah]

This might sound dumb but I'm wondering about the 2nd gear crunch on my GTV.

I had the gearbox out to replace a busted planetary gear in the diff about 3 years ago, and had 2nd gear synchro replaced then, which eliminated the crunch and made the gear change really stiff for a couple of months until things loosened up over time.

However, for quite a while now, it's been crunching again intermittently on changing into 2nd (mostly only downchange) if I'm too impatient on the shift or if the box is not warmed up.

The question I have is that it actually sounds and feels as though it's coming from the base of the gear stick, rather than from down back at the gearbox itself.

Is it just transferrred noise/vibration from the synchro, or could it actually just be something at the front end linkage/selector?

it's not terrible, and pretty easily managed through careful gear-changing, but I am curious.

[poohbah]

Cheers Glen, I hope its not a donut - I had them all replaced about 5 years ago!

It just seems a bit weird to me that it feels like its coming from a long way forward of the gearbox.

[Garibaldi]

I replaced the synchros on my 1979 Alfetta GTV 3 years ago and never had a problem. Mind you I did buy the expensive Goetze rings. Even with these you still had to shift gears slowly until the transaxle warmed up.

[poohbah]

The diminishing numbers are scary, as are the replacement panel/parts prices.

I saw an ad on FB yesterday offering an early GTV shell (that was largely rusted out forward of the A pillar) for $6k.

Mind you I did look longingly at the straight/solid rear valance ...

*correction - it's an '82 GTV and actually more of a  donor car than just a shell (rear hatch and bonnet already sold). Aside from aforementioned rust in front looks pretty solid.

But certainly gives me hope for the rising value of my licensed & running but *requires work '81!

[poohbah]

I've got no intention of selling mine either, but would be nice to be able to tell the missus that the ledger might get back into balance eventually!

[bonno]

Hi Poohbah
In addition to the comments above, it might be worth considering to check for worn gear lever connections and link rods (worn bushings/pins).

[poohbah]

cheers bonno. That's exactly where the sound/vibration seems to come from. Will have to have a poke around.

[martym00se72]

If you don't already, you could learn to double de-clutch. I taught myself as a result of 2nd gear...

[Domenic]

Everyone is aware that the Goetze rings that are currently on the market from overseas vendors are not made by Goetze (Federal Mogul).

Goetze sold off the machines and tooling to produce the synchro rings back around 2004-2005. they even stopped making gasket sets. All they produce now are piston rings and cylinder liners.

So whoever is making them now is just stamping them with GOE and they are technically re-production/copies of the originals.

If you want original synchro rings, they are out there you just need to find them, sometimes they can be had for cheaper than the new production items that can be purchase online.

[Domenic]

Hi Sportiva,

I always keep an eye out for them, it does take time and patience to locate them, but so far in the last 6 months I've found 4 original Alfa ones and 6 Goezte synchros (production stamp 1998) in Italy. That is all the suppliers had left

Again, it just takes time and patience to locate them

[NSharpley]

Doesnt look like anyone has mentioned this but if you think the sound is coming from under the stick and is only in 2nd gear, it could be possible that the linkage underneath is making contact with the propshaft.   

It would only do so in 2nd gear.

If you have a slack centre mount carrier bearing then the propshaft may be moving sideways enough to contact when you push the stick left and back for 2nd (this of course translates to right and forward underneath the car which puts it at its closest to the propshaft).

Rule it out by raising the car, starting it and get under there and visually inspect the shaft whilst running and the engaging of 2nd.

I think its unlikely this is the case ... but it is possible.

[minipete]

I used to think the Italians made my Giulietta crunch in second on purpose because old Ferraris did the same.

When I rebuilt the gearbox I was interested to see first and second (which are large gears) use the same size synchro as the upper gears.

The synchro has to arrest to rotation of the gear for clean shifts and the larger gears would make the synchros work much harder.

I decided the answer was to pause in neutral before pulling into second (which gives the synchro time to slow the gears) and haven't had a problem since.

[NSharpley]

I used to think the Italians made my Giulietta crunch in second on purpose because old Ferraris did the same.

When I rebuilt the gearbox I was interested to see first and second (which are large gears) use the same size synchro as the upper gears.

The synchro has to arrest to rotation of the gear for clean shifts and the larger gears would make the synchros work much harder.

I decided the answer was to pause in neutral before pulling into second (which gives the synchro time to slow the gears) and haven't had a problem since.

Double clutching does the same thing and doesn't require any pause. 

[Colin Edwards]

Could it be transaxle / GL5 oil NOT containing friction modifiers works better? 
The higher friction provided by some oils NOT containing these additives allows the synchro and respective gear to "synch" more readily?

[ALF750]

Not an Alfa this time but useful?:   The Getrag gearbox in my '94 Ghibli II is quite heavy to use and slow until the oil warms up, much like the Alfetta.   I spoke at length with a BMW mechanic (lots of them use use Getrag also) and he said to use basic mineral ATF in the gearbox.   I have and it is so much better.   The reasoning is that the greater friction/less lubrication from the ATF helps the cone match the synchro speed to the gear (?)  I don't know how well suited ATF is for teh transaxle differential though....