Lowering a 164

V AR 164 · May 15, 2015, 04:14:42 PM

Hey again,

As I may get new wheels for my 164, I am concerned when I use bigger rims the car will look like a 4wd with its high ride height.

Can I simply purchase lowering springs for the car or do I need to get new struts, shocks etc. I have read that the 164 have an automatic ride height self levelling system (clarification please?) and if I add new springs it will interfere with that system.

Thanks, Andrew.

jazig.k · May 15, 2015, 05:16:14 PM

If you have the auto levelling system you will need to removed it if they are the same as one system I do understand, the shocks need to be connected to work correctly - WH Statesman.

V AR 164 · May 15, 2015, 05:22:06 PM

Would you have any idea how I would find out if I have the system in my car?

jazig.k · May 16, 2015, 12:27:21 AM

Check for hoses connected to the shocks. I believe they would only be in the rear [compensate for extra passengers and luggage]

Attached between the body and the suspension somewhere will be a linkage connected to a height sensor. Pretty much a switch for the pump to adjust pressure to the shocks to adjust the car height.

There would be a pump under the bonnet too, but not sure where. Might be in the boot though...

Optional idea...
You can alter the switch to work at a lower height by changing the linkage length.
Handy idea for really really low static cars. With 2 rear passengers I clip the cats eye reflectors on lane changes... I don't have it in my 75 but I could prevent that weight lowering the car more. It's only something extra to go wrong with the car anyway. And the shocks are usually pretty poor shitty handling wise, but what's your cars purpose?

To adjust it, you make the linkage shorter [the vertical link on the right in this image from a WH Statesman] to suit the switches range. Alfa might be different, but I couldn't Google search much when I tried.

VeeSix · May 16, 2015, 08:53:59 AM

There is no such system on a 164 that I have seen in Australia, I would not advise lowering a 164 unless you are really sure that is what you want, do you really want to be slowing right down for every speed bump, having to be extra cautious when parking?

The 164 is low enough as is to be a great car but still have enough clearance for most basic road hazards, 16 and 17 inch wheels with the right tyres will just fill the wheel arch area nicely for looks, 4wd, no, if there is any raise we are just talking centimetres, when it came to making the 164 look meaner, more sportier, lower, the factory just added a ground effects kit, the QV kit, if you are just worried about the looks, just adding the QV kit would be the better option than lowering springs, lowering springs will probably add to a higher/faster rate of wear on other components

Lowering springs are around but you may have to make it a international purchase

VeeSix · May 16, 2015, 08:55:16 AM

16 inch

VeeSix · May 16, 2015, 08:58:31 AM

These are a very nice wheel, and really suit the 164 looks, I even have a set myself, they were hard to get for a while, but now that the novelty has worn a bit and a huge amount of 156s are now hitting death row you can get sets for practically nothing, they seem to be everywhere at the moment

shiny_car · May 16, 2015, 01:02:52 PM

Like any car, the 164 needs to be slammed. Stance.

V AR 164 · May 16, 2015, 02:06:26 PM

Thanks guys,

I only want to drop the car about 30mm or so. Nothing major. Also the car will be a daily driver.

As for adding a q body kit. NOPE. To me the kit looks like an afterthought made on a budget. (ugly).

Andrew.

jazig.k · May 16, 2015, 04:07:17 PM

Quote from: VeeSix on May 16, 2015, 08:53:59 AM
There is no such system on a 164

I think if you do a Google search you will find out that there is. It might have been an option though. Not a lot of info around about it but the 164 did have it in some cases.

V AR 164 · May 16, 2015, 06:00:45 PM

Some 164's certainly did come with this system.

Taken from the owners manual from my car:

stustustu123 · May 17, 2015, 09:53:23 AM

Interesting topic (and page from the owners manual).

As someone who has been into 164s since the late 90s, and has been active on multiple 164 forums since that time, I have never ever seen anyone post any pictures of the self leveling mechanism outlined, nor have I read anyone posting about issues they were having with their system. The only posts I have seen are speculation about the system (possibly by Nivomat), and that it was an option early on for the first series with the 3.0 V6 fitted.

Looking at the pic in the manual it appears the struts required some sort of hydraulic pressure line to adjust their height, but again, I have never seen any set of struts (new or second hand) for sale that had hydraulic adjustment. The Q struts have a 1-way valve for filling with oil, but if Alfa ever sold cars with self levelling suspension, the parts would almost definitely have come up somewhere for sale since.

Interestingly I have a dealer issued book that came with one of my cars that outlines numerous 164 accessories that were supposedly available from Alfa, but many of them I have never seen for sale anywhere, including a style of wheel that never seems to have made it into production. Sometimes I wonder if these items were pulled before they ever went on sale given that the 164 probably didn't sell in the volumes Alfa was hoping for.

jazig.k · May 17, 2015, 10:33:59 AM

Quote from: stustustu123 on May 17, 2015, 09:53:23 AM
Interesting topic (and page from the owners manual).

As someone who has been into 164s since the late 90s, and has been active on multiple 164 forums since that time, I have never ever seen anyone post any pictures of the self leveling mechanism outlined, nor have I read anyone posting about issues they were having with their system. The only posts I have seen are speculation about the system (possibly by Nivomat),

...but if Alfa ever sold cars with self levelling suspension,

When I replied with the picture of the WH sensor I found threads about the system, but no pictures so I could reply accurately. Also found people talking about nivomat on other cars being set up the same.

Also, the 75 was fitted out with auto-levelling suspension too. I think I remember a thread on the alfabb where a guy posted before and after pictures of "lowering" it but had no idea about the auto levelling system. I've never seen much about them, so could have also been a factory option and not just fitted to particular models. Or even a aftermarket dealer option?
I've got a perfect, complete set of books with my TS and it's not in there. Maybe not something offered in Australia.

shiny_car · May 17, 2015, 11:42:20 AM

Quote from: jazig.k on May 17, 2015, 10:33:59 AM
Also, the 75 was fitted out with auto-levelling suspension too. I think I remember a thread on the alfabb where a guy posted before and after pictures of "lowering" it but had no idea about the auto levelling system.

I think the 75 'auto' had this system. Definitely exists. So if the 75 had it, no reason some versions of the 164 couldn't.

alfafarm · May 17, 2015, 12:03:34 PM

Hi I too have been into 164s for a long time and have had 3 Qs still have two and wrecked and still am wrecking many ,I have never seen anything other than the electronic struts on Qs maybe the short run lhd Q4s had something. The 75 V6 autos had levelling hemispheres on the rear. Fitting 17 to a 164 with 205/35/17 tyres will give you the same rolling height and will go round corners like on rails however if you don't have the luxury of smooth roads like me its like riding a billycart. As far as lowering same deal sump is vunerable as is also fiddling with ride height will increase the propensity to eat particularly the left front tyre with extra modification needed to get less camber.john