147 Selespeed pre-purchase advice/opinons sought

[Potsie]

Hi All,

The good wife (Linda) is in the market for a new car. She's looking for a hatch. The options presently seem to be a Merc C180, or a 147. (She is specifically seeking an automatic as she's in sales and does a fair few city k's annually).

I'm keen to sway her opinion away from the German thing toward the 147 as:
i) I'm a bit of an Alfa fan - albeit it has only been for a short time (got my first Alfa - a 159 JTDm 2.4l - only last October and joined the AROCA only a few months ago), and
ii) I am a former avid snooker player (147 being the 'maximum' break in snooker).

Took a test drive of both these options earlier today. It was my first drive in a 147 and I still have a smile on my face. Great little car, and the one we're looking at (see: http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Alfa-Romeo-147-2009/AGC-AD-15725592/?Cr=4&sdmvc=1) seems to be pretty good value for money.

What is scaring me witless however, is all the horror stories I've read about the selespeed. (eg. Evan Bottcher's post from a few years ago: http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=2570.0. Unfortunately some of the links in his post are now 'broken' - I would have liked to have read the info. that Paul Denyer put together as it seems from comments that his stuff was fairly exhaustive on the topic).

Therefore I am wishing to seek advice/opinions in regard to the selespeed, namely:

1.  Most of the reports of things going wrong in the forums seem to be from 'older' selespeeds. Have there been improvements in more recent (MY2009) models with the gearbox?

2. Linda would likely drive in auto (city) mode 99% of the time. Has using a selespeed predominately as an auto been found to be worse for the gearbox (as opposed to manually clicking up and down in sequential mode) ?

3. I've read that selespeeds need to serviced annually. Does taking good care of the gearbox mean one is much less likely to experience dramas ? (I ask this partially because the 147 comes from Queensland, and from the books it looks like the car hasn't been serviced for slightly more than a year).

(I've also just had a thought that if this car is a 'goer', I may use it as my daily driver for a bit of extra fun and let Linda use the 159 (which has a 'dedicated' automatic gearbox) as her daily driver..hmm.)     

Any thoughts/advice/opinions would be greatly appreciated  (so long as those thoughts/advice/opinions aren't to go buy the Merc)

(And yes Colin, I will definitely have a pre-purchase inspection of the car undertaken by one of the club sponsor independent mechanics near to the trader. The car is in South Melbourne, so I was thinking Maranello Pur-Sang is not too far from there. Being from Sydney, I am crap with the geography around Melb. City, so if there any other good mechanics nearby that people can recommend, I would be grateful.  Which makes me recall that for some reason the post that lists the club sponsors - http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/content/view/20/33/ - tells me that I am 'not authorised to view this resource, you need to log in' whereas I am certainly logged in...hmm.       

thanks in advance,

Potsie

[colcol]

Hello Potsie, don't get a selespeed.
Go to Marranello Pursang Motors as they are near South Melbourne.
You could also try Spencer st Automobiles in West Melbourne.
There is also Il Bolide Rosso in Thornbury.
Don't get a selespeed as when it breaks down your wife will not talk to you.
What about an Automatic Guillieta?, they have been on the market now for a few years and seem good.
You need to get a selespeed serviced every year.
And selespeeds don't last forever, they have a limited life.
People that own them, love them, but they are Alfa Romeo Tragics.
Don't get a selespeed, they are not for normal drivers.
What would i know anyway as i haven't got a selespeed, took 6 months to find a 156 JTS without selespeed, which i don't regret.
Everyone that badmouths Alfa Romeo's usually mentions selespeeds as their main area of grief.
Don't get a selespeed.
Its bad enough having to do the cambelt every 3 years or 50,000 - 60,000 klms, without worrying about selespeed problems.
I drove a diesel Guillieta automatic and it was a good thing, due to lack of selespeed.
The later selespeeds were more reliable than the early ones, as they were more simple and less complex.
Which is like saying that a Leyland Marina is better than a Lada Volante.
Don't buy a selespeed, thats enough out of me, Colin.

[Potsie]

Col,

Thanks for the feedback.

I take it that the thrust of what you are trying to say is not to get a selespeed  .

Done. I wont get one.

By the way, I don't think you should be badmouthing Laylands. I reckon the P76 was the perfect car if you happened to need to keep a 44 gallon drum in your boot...

Potsie.

[colcol]

I wasn't bad mouthing all Leylands, just the horrid Leyland Marina.
A selespeed that breaks down, and it will at the wrong moment, late for an appointment, bucketing  down, will really make you hate Alfa Romeo's.
Selespeeds are gods way of saying you should drive a manual, as after all it is an Alfa Romeo.
My first car, which i owned for 33 years was a 3 speed auto, i discovered manuals are much more fun.
It really annoys me the selespeed, it has done Alfa Romeo's reputation absolutely no good.
Thats why they have not sold cars in America since the 164 and Milano, imagine a early 156 with selespeed, after 3 times back with a selespeed problem, under the USA consumer lemon laws, Alfa Romeo would have to supply a new car.
Alfa Romeo could have put a proper automatic in the 4 cylinder 147, 156, GTV and GT and have the option of a selespeed for people who like to walk a lot.
Sales would have gone through the roof, as some people won't buy manuals, [about 90%??].
Then they bring out the 156 V-6 with a proper 4 speed auto, which gives little trouble.
And the 159 comes out in V-6 form with a good autobox, the 2.2 JTS persists with the selespeed.
Then the series 2, 159 with the good diesel engines, and put in a ripper Aisan Japanese 6 speeder, and everyone loves it and unlike the selespeed gives little trouble.
They could have fitted one of the generic auto gearbox that Renault, Peugeot, Citreon use and the name of Alfa Romeo wouldn't have been tainted by the selespeed fiasco.
Some 147's and 156's selespeeds cost more to fix than what the car is worth.
That means there are plenty in wrecking yards that just are just not worth fixing.
That keeps the price of spare parts down on the used market.
Thats the only good thing i can say about a selespeed.
Oh and its keeps a lot of Alfa Romeo Service Providers going.
Colin.

[Garibaldi]

Selespeed    Manual

[Alfa156Melb1]

ColCol - not to be argumentative but I've owned a sele for 8 years now and it's never gone wrong.  I plug the car into Mulitscan once in a while to calibrate the system and periodically adjust the clutch and that's all its ever needed.. it takes me 5 minutes to calibrate and 30 minutes to adjust the clutch rod (once a year) - neither are an issue for a mechanic, just normal maintenance like an oil change.

I prefer a manual, my GTA is manual and I drive that most of the time, but when i get back into the sele, which my other half often drives (She can't drive a manual), i remember just how much damn fun they are!

You're right though, they can be unreliable, but most of the problems are down to not understanding the system, not looking after it, and wonky dealers trying to rip you off by selling you $3000 repair solutions when 99% of the time, it's a 50 cent seal.

MrsAlfa drives my JTS more than me these days simply because she cannot drive a manual but absolutely LOVES the sele and drives it in manual mode all the time. Ive only ever used auto when trying to drink a take away coffee - otherwise its rubbish. It is quite possibly one of the worst features ever invented in the history of automotive.  The brain that controls auto mode has the IQ of dishwater.

If you can find a car that is very well looked after, and you're prepared to keep a high level of maintenance going on the car (a calibration once a year is hardly a big deal) then go for it.  But just beware of the risks.  If the car is just a daily and reliability is top of the list, or the driver is neither here or there about 'drivability' don't buy one.

Having said that they drive very differently from anything else. You have to learn to drive them and adapt to a very different style if you're to appreciate what they have to offer.  To a 'normal' disinterested driver, ,it would feel horrible and I'd advise to steer clear.  I remember the very first sele i drove - it was a '99 156 twinny and i thought it was hilariously hopeless.  But when  i took my '03 156 JTS out a couple of years later, i made  a point of changing my driving style to suit the gearbox and WOW!  FUN!!! It was a later version of the system which helped.

They really are for the enthusiast, if you don't, or you wife doesn't fall into that label - buy an auto or a manual.

To specifically address your points:

1. Most of the reports of things going wrong in the forums seem to be from 'older' selespeeds. Have there been improvements in more recent (MY2009) models with the gearbox?

Yes, they'd pretty much sorted out all the problems by 2009

2. Linda would likely drive in auto (city) mode 99% of the time. Has using a selespeed predominately as an auto been found to be worse for the gearbox (as opposed to manually clicking up and down in sequential mode) ?

The gearbox doesn't know and doesn't care what mode your in - the driver will know though and will end up never using auto because its so godawful rubbish.  It wont hurt the gearbox though.

3. I've read that selespeeds need to serviced annually. Does taking good care of the gearbox mean one is much less likely to experience dramas ? (I ask this partially because the 147 comes from Queensland, and from the books it looks like the car hasn't been serviced for slightly more than a year).

You need to check the fluid from time to time (selespeed fluid that is) and have it calibrated once a year.. all they do is plug a computer into the car and press a button.

You can buy a copy of MultiECUScan and a cable and do it your self for free - takes 5 minutes.

When you get the car serviced, make sure the mechanic checks and adjusts the clutch rod length and it will give you years and years of trouble free fun.  If you do have a sele, always use a specialist to service the car - no excuses.

(I've also just had a thought that if this car is a 'goer', I may use it as my daily driver for a bit of extra fun and let Linda use the 159 (which has a 'dedicated' automatic gearbox) as her daily driver..hmm.)

Excellent idea - you'd have MUCH more fun in the 147 anyway

[Potsie]

Thanks for the detailed reply Alfa156 - greatly increased my knowledge of the selespeed.

Its turns out a few weeks on the good wife is now looking at a VW Golf TDI (after having decided that little Merc's and BMW's seem to be not too good value-for-money in comparison, albeit probably better cars).

Haven't bought yet, so I still think there still may time be for me to try to convince her that 'my' 159 would be a terrific daily driver for her (and a 147 or GT would be a great car for me). Women are funny creatures though .. I have to find the right way to make her think that such an outcome was 'her' idea to make that into a reality.