Author Topic: 3.0 24 Valve V6 into my Lexus IS200  (Read 13804 times)

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CitroŽnbender

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Re: 3.0 24 Valve V6 into my Lexus IS200
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2018, 11:26:19 PM »
Six way V6 cranks are also found in the 90į PRV V6 and the 60į ES9J4/L7X motors.

That aside, I think the project sounds like much fun. Canít wait to see it unfold.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2018, 11:30:00 PM by CitroŽnbender »

Pseudonym

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Re: 3.0 24 Valve V6 into my Lexus IS200
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2018, 12:34:04 AM »
Sounds about right. Workshop local to me did an LSA into an IS200 and while it's very possible it's very very custom, read expensive. While the Toyota V6s do make good power I never see them put into road cars - if they're anything like the old Toyota V12 it's because the ECUs are built to integrate into particular cars with particular sensors etc and it's easier to throw a few grand at something standalone. Alfadax is a great blog as well, but christ it's a tight fit in that chassis...

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LaStregaNera

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Re: 3.0 24 Valve V6 into my Lexus IS200
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2018, 10:20:42 AM »
Plenty of Toyota V6s going into Stratos replicas these days, and there's at least 2 AE86s I've heard of running the Toyota 3.5l v6 (2GR)...
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Duk

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Re: 3.0 24 Valve V6 into my Lexus IS200
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2018, 11:29:11 AM »
Plenty of Toyota V6s going into MR2s aswell.

From what I understand about the IS200, like most cars built in the last 15 ish years, the instruments are controlled by the ECU.
If you use all of the sensors from the 1G engine on another 6 cylinder engine with equal firing order, the ECU would be able to run it and the instruments.
Crank and cam sensors would be the hardest ones to do. Chances are that Toyota used the same/similar ones for other engine of the same era. The Alfa's CAS and cam speed reset will be pure Bosch.
The fact that the factory ECU's tuning would probably be out of whack for a different engine is a biggish challenge. The Toyota ECUs aren't tunable (apparently Toyota paid a hefty fee to not have the mandatory OBD2 interface for their cars).
A decent interceptor tuner like a Trust Emanage Ultimate would allow you to tune it well, but there is a considerable cost just buying 1.
I'm not seeing why you'd RWD a FWD Alfa engine to put in a Toyota, when you could RWD a Toyota FWD engine and put it in a Toyota.......  :o
What about a RWD layout 4 Runner/Prado versions of the V6 engines?

If you genuinely could do this for $2000, that'd be a big achievement.
But how real world, long term durable would it be?
Hoses and other plumbing parts/pieces, wiring and exhaust systems. The things that fail and leave you strandard.
But more than anything, a home made engine/gearboxadapter plate............. Acceptable misalignment for something that spins to 6-7000RPM would be tiny! Less than 0.01mm!

In the long run, when it's time to sell, how many people are going to want to entertain your approach to the car?
A different Toyota engine in a Toyota is 1 thing. But an Alfa engine, with all of its perceived faults/reputation...........  ???
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 11:31:40 AM by Duk »
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The Slightly More Imediate Project: Supercharged Toyota MR2.
The Long Standing Conundrum: 1990 75 V6 (Potenziata)............. What to do, what to do???

CitroŽnbender

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Re: 3.0 24 Valve V6 into my Lexus IS200
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2018, 01:01:00 PM »
Surely itís not a project done for resale to ďa person of average driving abilityĒ as the NSW modification regs used to state. I totally admire and encourage this sort of hotrodding; more authentic than the unspoken colour-by-numbers rules that apply to so many modded vehicles. Only today was I pondering how rapidly the legions of ďEleanorsĒ race towards oversight, now a blip in barely-remembered popular culture.

Ahsoka

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Re: 3.0 24 Valve V6 into my Lexus IS200
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2018, 03:25:55 PM »
The Toyota and Lexus  V6's are JUST TOO BIG to fit easily into the IS engine bay , this has been tried a few times and every single one was aborted due to size issues .
I can pick up an IS250 V6 with about 100,000 K's on it for $600 !!
A bargain seeing as MY WIFE'S CAR is an IS250 !!
No way will that fit in my IS200 never even considered it and I do all the servicing on it , that's not to mention [ through I will !! ] the direct injection hassle and so on .
If I could go that way I'd  just stick an IS350 engine in it they make 310 HP N/A no prob and can be bought for about $1200 .
Again need a Link G4 or similar ECU .
I will retain the IS ECU to run all but the engine stuff and use the ALFA ECU to run the engine....essentially doable but time consuming , I could not count the number of times i'm sitting on a roller chair with loom wires everywhere .
I WILL SAY IT AGAIN !!
None of the Toyota V6 engines have a 6 throw crank !!!!!
The only 6 throw all alloy engine that MEETS ALL CRITERIA including availability and price is the Alfa !!!!
I have done many many conversions where I have made my own bell housing adaptor  and I have not ever had a problem , I will either source a broken manual box to cut up or if I cannot sell the auto I took out of the 156 I will cut that up .
As to cost I have an engine complete fpr a $1000 including all the electrics I need , I have a J160 six speed box that owes me $200 , there will be no gearbox mounts driveshaft shit as that will all be stock , I will make my own adaptor , I will do my own wiring and will fab the exhaust myself using the original headers .
Add in some cylindrical grinding costs plus the same stuff you always have on any engine transplants and I think I will come in under budget !!
Take  $1400 off what ever I spend as that is how much a new clutch and flywheel for the 1GFE is going to cost me so essentially my budget is $3400 .
I also have total access to a mill and a lathe .
This is far from my first rodeo .
But the bottom line is I WANT SOMETHING A BIT DIFFERENT .
A slightly lighter way shorter all alloy V6 giving me a 100 HP more than I have now nestled up against the firewall will be AWESOME !!
AND THE BUSSO V6 IS VERY PRETTY TO LOOK AT...who wouldn't want that under their hood ??
I have personally seen a few Nissan SJ20 or FD20 engines in the IS200 BUT do not want a four OR a turbo , I have done that all of that !!V8's , turbo's , turbo 12A rotary ,  13B bridgeport rotaries in fact I sold both of my 13B bridgeport 1984 RX7's to buy the IS200 .
Been there done that moving on .
Have a look at a Juno SS3 or a Noble M400 and what they are doing with the Jag all alloy V6 .
I also know of a Nissan S14 that is being fitted with a Jag 3.0 alloy V6 .
As a note after its duties as a set up car my spare IS200 will be used as my sons drift car and WE WILL be putting a twin turbo 3.0 Jaguar Duratec V6 in it .
Mark my words that the Lexus V6 will start turning up in car engine swaps , they are cheap to buy VERY VERY strong and with cam chain drive that is basically good for life of engine....why not !!
Imagine a twin turbo IS350 alloy V6 pushing 500 HP or more for about 4 grand !!
I have grown tied of the " oh just put a 2J in it " , 2J's are old and getting hard to get so now are expensive and take in mind a stock 3.0 2J only makes 220 HP .
The last car to come with a 2J in it was about  2002 that's 16 years ago !!

poohbah

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Re: 3.0 24 Valve V6 into my Lexus IS200
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2018, 04:24:14 PM »
This may be a dumb question - could you even get it road-registered with a Busso V6, given it would be both a size and power upgrade from a totally different manufacturer?
Now:    1999 156 V6
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Before: 2001 156 V6 (sadly cremated)

Duk

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Re: 3.0 24 Valve V6 into my Lexus IS200
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2018, 04:35:16 PM »
Toyota 60* V6's too wide to fit and yet there are multiple, 90* 1UZFE V8 powered IS200s out there.
Toyota V6's don't have 6 throw cranks, but a quick google look shows otherwise.

I always laugh when people say that their gearbox adapter is perfectly fine. "The gearbox only broke because of all the extra horse power"............

Well it's your car.
The Daily: Jumped Up Taxi (BF F6 Typhoon). Oh the torque! ;)
The Slightly More Imediate Project: Supercharged Toyota MR2.
The Long Standing Conundrum: 1990 75 V6 (Potenziata)............. What to do, what to do???

Pseudonym

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Re: 3.0 24 Valve V6 into my Lexus IS200
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2018, 08:35:00 PM »
Yeah I've seen Toyota V6 swaps, however everything I've had has been either a four or inline six originally so anything other than an RB/JZ has been too hard basket, especially since you basically buy off the shelf engine management for them and you're set to smash boost. Thought the 2GR were still a lot more expensive than that, but I agree the age and price of the JZ are not sensible. Last turbo 2J I saw was 4500 for the long motor, hundred thousand ks plus...

Price for the cam modifications sounds awesome, and although I ended up buying an already welded bell housing for Z32 to SR years back it still wasn't that expensive to buy a laser cut adaptor plate and have the housing machined back straight, probably thousands of drift cars had the same mod done without issue. I remember bookmarking the alfadax site for his approach to getting the S2000 box behind the busso.

And yes, it's going to look and sound awesome I would have already bought an IS years back but I'm slow enough fixing the cars I have

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CitroŽnbender

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Re: 3.0 24 Valve V6 into my Lexus IS200
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2018, 11:39:18 PM »
Quote
The only 6 throw all alloy engine that MEETS ALL CRITERIA including availability and price is the Alfa !!!

Whatís wrong with these, to be excluded so summarily?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V6_ESL_engine

LaStregaNera

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Re: 3.0 24 Valve V6 into my Lexus IS200
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2018, 11:08:36 AM »
Toyota 60* V6's too wide to fit and yet there are multiple, 90* 1UZFE V8 powered IS200s out there.
Toyota V6's don't have 6 throw cranks, but a quick google look shows otherwise.

I always laugh when people say that their gearbox adapter is perfectly fine. "The gearbox only broke because of all the extra horse power"............

Well it's your car.
A mate had a LS powered IS200. It was awesome.
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Craig_m67

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Re: 3.0 24 Valve V6 into my Lexus IS200
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2018, 11:54:51 AM »
Comepletely off topic, but there seems to be some knowledgeable peeps in this thread who may be able to help me.  I am doing a complete timing chain replacement on a Hyundai/Kia 3.8L v6 this weekend (Ď06 KIA Grand Carnival)

Iím struggling to find any manuals, workshop guides etc.. would anybody know of any links, PDF downloads etc.., would be of a great help (torque wrench tables, gotchas etc.)


This v6 engine (G6DA) has been used in multiple Hyundai/Kia, issue is a failing hydraulic tensioner, which causes timing chain rattle on startup (until oil pressure is built) leading to chain guide failures and then ruined cam sprockets etc.

Any pointers, links etc appreciated
(Apologies for the thread hijack, only mention it due to the V6 knowledge espoused)  :)

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Ahsoka

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Re: 3.0 24 Valve V6 into my Lexus IS200
« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2018, 06:34:27 PM »
Quite correct Mr Duk , perhaps I should have said totally different firing order ??
Do you know me ??
Have you ever seen one of my conversions ??
Have you ever driven one ??
Have you ever even  talked to anyone who has one of my conversions ??
No ??
Yet with absolutely no information you deem it ok to cast aspirations on my work even though you have no knowledge of it whatsoever !!
What kind of person does that make you ??
I do not recall saying that a Lexus/Toyota V6 was too wide !!
I do recall saying that it was TOO BIG .
I actually have an IS250 and an IS200 parked side by side in my driveway right at this moment in time and have done for at least two years the 250 being my wife's....would you like me to post a pic to prove it !!
Just from lifting the hood on the 250 you instantly see how freaking HUUUGE the engine is .
I have an Alfa 24 Valve 2.5 V6 on an engine stand at the moment and externally they are the same size as the 3.0 V6 and they are tiny in comparison to a 1MZ-fe or a 2GR

Mr Citroen , nothing has been decided without much thought and research , your engine has stroke and bore of 82 x 87 , the Alfa is 72 x 90 way more over square so no not even close .
Add  to that the height of the Alfa V6 is only 700mm
Only two engines  remained on the list after ALL MY CRITERIA where mainly met , the Busso and the Jag 3.0 litre V6 and the Alfa got the nod for three reasons:

1 No VVTI

2 Will not require a stand alone ECU

3 The Alfa V6 is far far far far far far better to look  at , no contest really .

As I have stated before this is far from my first rodeo and 44 years of playing , racing and modifying cars played no small part in making my decision.

Its nice to see nearly everybody not getting personal about this [ except for Mr Duk of course ].
The single biggest percentage factor of this decision was budget , this swap will be done for less than a stand alone ECU and tuning would cost me which I price out at $2500
I have not included the cost of my personal time as essentially it is free , if I where to include that add in $6000 .

Duk

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Re: 3.0 24 Valve V6 into my Lexus IS200
« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2018, 07:07:56 PM »
WOW!
That was an unexpected little tanty................  :o
The Daily: Jumped Up Taxi (BF F6 Typhoon). Oh the torque! ;)
The Slightly More Imediate Project: Supercharged Toyota MR2.
The Long Standing Conundrum: 1990 75 V6 (Potenziata)............. What to do, what to do???

Duk

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Re: 3.0 24 Valve V6 into my Lexus IS200
« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2018, 07:16:49 PM »

I do not recall saying that a Lexus/Toyota V6 was too wide !!
I do recall saying that it was TOO BIG .


The Toyota and Lexus  V6's are JUST TOO BIG to fit easily into the IS engine bay , this has been tried a few times and every single one was aborted due to size issues .


Yeah, well..............  ???
The Daily: Jumped Up Taxi (BF F6 Typhoon). Oh the torque! ;)
The Slightly More Imediate Project: Supercharged Toyota MR2.
The Long Standing Conundrum: 1990 75 V6 (Potenziata)............. What to do, what to do???