Author Topic: HOW TO - Spider 916 roof hood cover lock repair  (Read 6936 times)

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Cool Jesus

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HOW TO - Spider 916 roof hood cover lock repair
« on: January 13, 2013, 10:05:01 PM »
The dreaded Spider roof cover gear failure has struck mi motori, however I find this fix to be supper simple. A dodle as the brits say. Anyhow the plastic gear wheel used to lock the roof cover down stopped working altogether and was stuck in the closed position. Damn, luck the weather was good lately. Anyhow, the motor is stowed away in the storage comparement behind the seats. Pull out the internal coverings and you'll find the mechanism as pictured. You can either remove the negative from the battery to not damage your electricals with any shorts, or just simply unplug the motor as I did, up to you but the mechanism needs to be disconnected.

1 - Now the moving arm is held in place by the one nyloc nut. The design is so that if its broke and locked, as mine is, you just push in the armature and it releases itself from the gearing as its sprung up against it.

2 - Once the armature is in the unlocked position, lift the hood cover up so that the locks are exposed for later. The cable is attached via a simple two lock nut system. I think the lock nut is 8mm, once cracked it comes off very easy. Hold the sleeve nut with appropriate tool and undo the lock nut that is on top. Unscrew assembly and disengage cable from armature x 2.

3 - Now its time to remove the mechanism. Nuts 1, 2 and 3 (along with the armature nut) are all 10mm nuts from memory. Just remove nuts 1, 2 and 3 at this stage and pull the electrically disconnected mechanism of the three thread rods. It may be a little difficult to pull off as the threaded rods aren't exactly square. Just keep at it and dont be too ham fisted with it, it will come off.

4 - Once off, turn it over and you'll find a backing plate with 4 phillips self tappers. Undo and remove the cover. There's no sprungs to worry about which will fling out, the sprung force comes from curved spring steel plates.
Present:
* '76 Alfetta GTAm 2.0 (project)
* '89 164 3.0 (track project)
* '98 Spider 2.0 TS (on road)
* '03 147 2.0 TS (on road)
===================
Past:
* '10 159 2.2 JTS

Cool Jesus

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Re: HOW TO - Spider 916 roof hood cover lock repair
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2013, 10:22:00 PM »
Here's my broken gear, I've sent of a couple of enquiries to locate a replacement, but it certainly seems that people are taking financial advantage from others for this little piece of plastic. I could be terribly mistaken, however a don't see how such an item can cost between $50 - $100. So, as it was the weekend, and a replacement wasn't going to be coming anytime soon I noticed that the gear isnt used in its entirety. There are stops and the armature as you can see only needs to move in a small arc to lock and unlock the cover.

5 - So, as a temporary fix, until a new gear is sourced. Clean up the broken gear teeth and remove any nearly broken teeth. Place the now gapping area of the cog to just below the motor spindle on the left and you'll find that you can get yourself out of trouble, not once but I reckon a second time, so you could break teeth on the cog three or four times before being required to absolutely replace it.

6 - Re-install in reverse. Pay particular attention to removal of items. Theres a little plastic bush at the top of the motor spindle with two spring washers, just watch there orientation. Clean it all up and re-grease, and re-install.

7 - If I find a cheap, or perhaps a better word is reasonable cost replacement gear I'll be in touch. Otherwise, I'll save my pocket monet for now, reposition the cog and purchase a new/improved cog when I can. Post your experiences with this issue and what/how/where you sourced the plastic cog.
Present:
* '76 Alfetta GTAm 2.0 (project)
* '89 164 3.0 (track project)
* '98 Spider 2.0 TS (on road)
* '03 147 2.0 TS (on road)
===================
Past:
* '10 159 2.2 JTS

John Hanslow

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Re: HOW TO - Spider 916 roof hood cover lock repair
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2013, 09:22:29 AM »
The Italian Job have made an aftermarket fix.

They produce replacement metal gears to fix the common issue with plasic gears in the roof motors.

Price may have been about $160 for the kit.

Cheers
Now:
1990 Alfa 75 Potenziata (QV)
2002 916 Spider Twin Spark

Previously:
1989 164 3.0  V6
2002 156 Twin Spark Sports Edition
2002 147 Twin Spark

Neil Choi

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Re: HOW TO - Spider 916 roof hood cover lock repair
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2013, 09:31:41 AM »
Reminiscent of the 164 stepper motor plastic gears.

At least the hood motor is accessible easily.

John Hanslow

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Re: HOW TO - Spider 916 roof hood cover lock repair
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2013, 11:52:44 AM »
I heard a new motor for 916/939 is about $2,500 so any other rebuild or fix is worth a look.

Now:
1990 Alfa 75 Potenziata (QV)
2002 916 Spider Twin Spark

Previously:
1989 164 3.0  V6
2002 156 Twin Spark Sports Edition
2002 147 Twin Spark

Cool Jesus

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Re: HOW TO - Spider 916 roof hood cover lock repair
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2013, 01:11:14 PM »
I have seen, read something about a metal gear for an absolute fix. My concern with this is the once the flexible, breakable gear is replaced with metal what will fail next? The internal mechanism only gives a little flex/spring in the motor's worm drive. Reason for this, I believe, is cause after the micro switches in the roof arcs have turned off power, it still spins a little, and the hard external stops, stop it turning too far. The plastic or nylon gear gives the mechanism a little extra flex (maybe) and to be able to reuse the old broken cog for a few extra times before buying a new one between $50 - $100 seems fiscally viable to OMG $2500 (you must be kidding John!).
I've no basis for this, as I've not come across any reviews using a metal gear replacement. Other than someone offering the above scenario of stresses being transferred elsewhere in the mechanism.  ??? Any and all thoughts would add value to the thread.

Actually has anybody used a metal replacement? For around $160 I'd use it if it didn't stuff the lock.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2013, 01:16:43 PM by Cool Jesus »
Present:
* '76 Alfetta GTAm 2.0 (project)
* '89 164 3.0 (track project)
* '98 Spider 2.0 TS (on road)
* '03 147 2.0 TS (on road)
===================
Past:
* '10 159 2.2 JTS

colcol

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Re: HOW TO - Spider 916 roof hood cover lock repair
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2013, 10:02:34 PM »
I have always found when something in the chain fails, you fix it with something stronger, the next link in the chain fails, pulled apart a 30 year old Alfa 33 wiper motor the other day the nylon gears looked fine, i reckon like wiper motors, power window motors and power roof motors the mechanical components have got to be kept well lubricated and clean to avoid putting excessive strain on the nylon gears, Colin.
1974 VW Passat [ist car] 1984 Alfa 33TI [daily driver] 2002 Alfa 156 JTS [daily driver]

shay1000

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Re: HOW TO - Spider 916 roof hood cover lock repair
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2015, 04:36:10 PM »
Hi Guys,

Followed the advice re removing the nylon gear wheel. Sadly mine had missing teeth and was fractured right across to about 80% of its diameter. I will be sourcing one of those metal replacements and keeping it well lubricated.

I suspect that the fracture occurred from me flipping it across manually, who knows?

I will post on the ease of fitment etc of the upgrade kit on this post when the time comes.

Thanks again and drive safe

Stephen   
Ducati 848 Evo
Ducati 1000 DS Multistrada
Bimota DB1
Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport
1998 Alfa GTV Spider

shay1000

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Re: HOW TO - Spider 916 roof hood cover lock repair
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2015, 08:03:43 PM »
I was not entirely sure about fitting a metal gear, as this may just transfer the metal to plastic problem further down the chain, there is a plastic clutch which fits into the back of this gear.

I have sourced a non original nylon gear from the UK, cost landed is $132 and if it lasts 10 years that is only 13 bucks a year. I will also price the aluminium gear obtainable from Italian Job and post accordingly. These nylon replacement gears are (apparently) better than the original plastic.

Watch this space 
Ducati 848 Evo
Ducati 1000 DS Multistrada
Bimota DB1
Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport
1998 Alfa GTV Spider

shay1000

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Re: HOW TO - Spider 916 roof hood cover lock repair
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2015, 11:13:00 AM »
I rang Italian Job and they quoted me $225 + GST for the aluminium gear. To further complicate matters the originals came in 2 sizes, 65.5mm and 67.5mm, they only make the aluminium replacement in the smaller (65.5mm) size.

Therefore do NOT throwaway you stuffed plastic original until you have measured it and noted the size, which is of course a diameter.

I intend fitting the nylon one when it arrives, for 2 reasons, 1 it is cheaper and 2 I am not convinced that fitting a metal component will not adversely affect the clutch.
Ducati 848 Evo
Ducati 1000 DS Multistrada
Bimota DB1
Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport
1998 Alfa GTV Spider

shay1000

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Re: HOW TO - Spider 916 roof hood cover lock repair
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2015, 05:36:07 PM »
OK guys, here is the current status...
Fitting the replacement gear was a total no brainer, snaps quite easily (with gentle pressure) over the plastic clutch component. There is no need to align the motor, just fit it to the mounts, press gently on the hub and move the arms toward the applicable stops.

Did it fix all my problems? No ;D

Here is the current status...motor works correctly. hydraulic tank is full. The scenario is a totally open roof, start the car, the led goes on once. press the button to close. The back opens releasing the roof which travels to the windscreen fine. The rear fairing closes and latches in place

BUT...the rear of the roof starts to close and then stops, still well clear of its mating points  on the body.

I have checked the struts for this component, worked it back and forward and topped up the hydraulic tank. Still no joy. I have to switch car off and use the manual switch whilst applying gentle pressure on the rear roof.

Restarting the car at this point gives me the 10 flash error code for the roof system.
 
Ducati 848 Evo
Ducati 1000 DS Multistrada
Bimota DB1
Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport
1998 Alfa GTV Spider

Spiderrob

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Re: HOW TO - Spider 916 roof hood cover lock repair
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2015, 03:10:57 PM »
Shay1000- I had exactly the same problem, took apart the motor and found the gear split. I decided to go down the aluminium replacement path and received the part in less than 24 hours from placing the order - very impressed. Fitting it cured the problem and the roof now works fine. It seems most likely that somehow or other refitting your motor with the new gear hasn't cured the original issue. The hood stops at that point because that is when the motor turns to pull the cables to lock the hood cover in place, so sounds like that isn't happening in your case or at least the Ecu thinks it isn't happening. Might be worth checking the cables move freely, nothing is physically in the way of the hood cover catches and that there isn't too much slack in the cables after re fitting.

shay1000

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Re: HOW TO - Spider 916 roof hood cover lock repair
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2015, 08:53:11 PM »
the hood cover works fine, it raises and lowers as it is supposed to, it is the rear panel of the roof (where the window lives) that will not close and mate up with the holes in the stowage cover, it just sits there. 
Ducati 848 Evo
Ducati 1000 DS Multistrada
Bimota DB1
Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport
1998 Alfa GTV Spider

shay1000

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Re: HOW TO - Spider 916 roof hood cover lock repair
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2015, 08:54:44 PM »
to be honest with you I am kind of over this car, nothing but a series of lousy little faults. If anyone wants to buy a 2.0 l spider for parts please let me know
Ducati 848 Evo
Ducati 1000 DS Multistrada
Bimota DB1
Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport
1998 Alfa GTV Spider