Author Topic: Project car - 1989 75 3.0 V6 [Updated 12 November 2021]  (Read 371095 times)

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Sheldon McIntosh

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Re: Project car - 1989 75 3.0 V6
« Reply #165 on: March 15, 2013, 03:41:00 PM »
Since you have it all apart anyway, are you going to put on the ball-joint risers?  Apologies if you've mentioned this before, I don't read what you've written, I just look at the wonderful photos!!

shiny_car

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Re: Project car - 1989 75 3.0 V6
« Reply #166 on: March 15, 2013, 08:29:34 PM »
As Duk said, I have never had one completely mate up. I can feel it bottoming out and yet there is still always a gap. That said, the gap for me is usually only 1-2mm. Just enough for my cold chisel when I want to remove them!

Thanks, good to know!  :)

Since you have it all apart anyway, are you going to put on the ball-joint risers?

I haven't mentioned it yet; still haven't decided. I've read about (upper) balljoint risers, and drop spindles. I've a basic grasp on various effects on camber during cornering, roll centres, and roll axis. I am considering drop spindles, but not balljoint risers, and I will be lowering the car considerably (exact distance yet to be confirmed).

My plan has always been to fit the RS Racing suspension kit, which includes front coilvoers, and use the original 1" torsion bars. From everything I've read, it is claimed that this packages works wonderfully with the standard front suspension setup, for which it was designed. And by minimising body roll, the adverse effects of positive camber on the outer wheel are negated.

I've read nothing to confirm that RS Racing + drop spindles is a bad combination. It makes sense to me that drop spindles should help. The only potential issue is whether the coilover has enough travel to extend further once the LCA is reset from the 'pointing up' position to 'horizontal/pointing down'; can't see it being a problem.

At the end of the day, the car will be a rarely-driven street car, and not see the track, so I will not be chasing maximum performance. But of course I want it to handle nicely, and be predictable, and not catch me out (with wild oversteer or more likely terrible plough understeer). As such, drop spindles may be 'poor value for money' for my requirements when combined with the RSR setup. Hence, I think I will start with just the RSR suspension, then re-evaluate.

Because the RSR kit is expensive, I don't foresee purchasing it for a year or two, and may be one of the last things fitted before the car hits the road. But it won't be driven until it's done.

:)
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barts

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Re: Project car - 1989 75 3.0 V6
« Reply #167 on: March 15, 2013, 09:03:10 PM »
Hi Shiny,

I have been watching your amazing build online. I don't have the drop spindles, just RSR setup on a 3.0 12v GTV6. Your welcome to come take it for a drive or grab any measurements if you like. I'm about an hr north of Melbourne at Pucka.

Dan

shiny_car

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Re: Project car - 1989 75 3.0 V6
« Reply #168 on: March 16, 2013, 01:35:14 AM »
Thanks Dan! I appreciate the offer, and once my car is up and running with it fitted, I may take up the offer to compare.

How low is your GTV6? Are the front lower control arms 'pointing upwards'? And what spring rates did you go with?

:)
Giulietta QV TCT . 1.75 TBi . Magnesio Grey - Black
GT . 3.2 V6 . Q2 . Kyalami Black - Red
75 . 3.0 V6 . Alfa Red - Grey

barts

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Re: Project car - 1989 75 3.0 V6
« Reply #169 on: March 18, 2013, 08:54:18 PM »
Hi Shiny,

My car is still set to just greater than 14cm clearance... lowest point is about the central resonator / muffler. This makes driving on the road a no brainer and keeps moving it with CEVA every couple of years easy.

The lower arms are just about level but angled slightly up to the wheels (photo is a bit low and deceptive). I have it set that way with the torsion bars so I could maybe go down 1cm or so but tons of room to go up. If it was dedicated to the track I think a 2-3cm drop would be fine.

The rear shockies on the kit are very short. I have my rear set about as high as it can reasonably go and the rear wheel sits about 1cm above (into) the wheel arch (GTV6). The front tyre is about 3cm below the arch. Ron Recommends the rear ride height 1cm above the front and my car is about level (jack points) despite the difference in wheel arch gap so a 1cm drop at the front would probably put it at its highest recommended setting. 

My springs are 115kg front and 60 rear. When I bought these I had Targa aspirations so Ron recommended that intermediate sort of rate with the 30mm front roll bar. It rides pretty well at highway speeds on reasonable roads and is fantastic on the track, but I haven't really driven it anywhere else to compare. 

Hope that helps.

Dan


shiny_car

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Re: Project car - 1989 75 3.0 V6
« Reply #170 on: March 19, 2013, 02:02:39 PM »
Thanks Dan. Good info. I also saw your topic about the car (for sale); good luck with that, and pity it has to go.

Cheers, Richard.
Giulietta QV TCT . 1.75 TBi . Magnesio Grey - Black
GT . 3.2 V6 . Q2 . Kyalami Black - Red
75 . 3.0 V6 . Alfa Red - Grey

shiny_car

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Re: Project car - 1989 75 3.0 V6
« Reply #171 on: April 12, 2013, 09:32:20 PM »
The past month, I made a little bit of progress. Each step has been fairly time consuming, particularly thoroughly cleaning 20+ years of grime from the main components.

The LCA (lower control arm) and support bar were sprayed with primer then finished in gloss black.





Then fitted new bushes. This required packing the LCA with '6g' of grease, according to the workshop manual. I've used Penrite Molygrease EP 3%, and scooped out 6g with the aide of the SPAM scales!





The rear bush was fitted to the support bar, then driven into position by the hydraulic press. The tub of grease was also helpful in propping the LCA in position!





New bush pressed into front of LCA. Another 6g of Molygrease packed into the void inside the end of the LCA after the bush was fitted, then the 'lock ring' and 'retaining nut' refitted, and all torqued to spec.







The lock ring and nut, and the spacers (which bolt between the chassis and support bar) were then primed and also sprayed black. Completed, ready for fitment to the car.





Next, cleaned the torsion bar. Standard bar, 24mm diameter x 932mm long. One thing I discovered was a rubber sleeve covering the bars! It was so dirty that it did not feel or appear to be rubber. Here it is, with one end rolled back for demonstration. The splines are dirty because the bar had been sitting on the floor of the garage a few weeks.



After a thorough scrub with soapy water and a scourer, it looked completely different and fresh :D (shown before, photo of dirty bar). Found the original wrap-around blue decal with 'R'. The workshop manual describes the right-side bar as: "blue mark and letter D or R". That may account for the blue paint adjacent to the decal but unsure about the red paint (left-side bar meant to have yellow, so I will find out later). The rear end of the bar has a 'D' stamped into it.







The wheel arch was next. Plenty of accumulated dirt lodged into various areas and crevices; this is behind the plastic wheel arch liner that will be refitted later. I decided the quickest effective cleaning method was spraying degreaser then using the Karcher high pressure hose - despite being inside the garage! Don't ask about having water everywhere   ::) .



Given a good wash, used an old toothbrush in some crevices, then dried and wiped. Zinc Cold Gal Primer rust proofer was applied to any exposed metal and allowed to cure for a couple weeks.



Painted, using enamel satin black paint in the boxed sections, and 3M Body Deadener on the remainder of the arch/chassis.



This is self-adhesive clear film for general purpose protection (eg: sold as bicycle frame protection patches). I bought this to cover over some of the redundant holes in the chassis rails. I cut small patches and stuck them in place, aided by gentle heat from a heat gun. They will be painted over.

I presume some of the holes are for 'airing' and drainage, or maybe for manufacturing purposes. But they seem quite random, and allow water and grime to accumulate inside. I left only a couple big holes and covered the remainder.





Disc brake splash guard, grubby and corroded. Then cleaned with wax & grease remover, then wire brushed to remove corrosion.





Sprayed with primer, then satin black high temperature-resistant engine enamel, given its proximity to the brake disc.





Steering knuckle, before cleaning. Wiped with wax & grease remover, then wire brushed, ready for respraying.







So this coming month, I'll respray the steering knuckle, refurb a couple of the remaining components, then start to reassemble the suspension.

Thanks for looking!

:)
« Last Edit: September 26, 2020, 03:55:19 AM by shiny_car »
Giulietta QV TCT . 1.75 TBi . Magnesio Grey - Black
GT . 3.2 V6 . Q2 . Kyalami Black - Red
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shiny_car

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Re: Project car - 1989 75 3.0 V6
« Reply #172 on: May 08, 2013, 09:26:50 PM »
The past month has seen most of the front right suspension completed. Having done one side, I then had the left front suspension totally stripped well within 2 hours, without rushing.

The front right steering knuckle sprayed with primer then gloss black paint.





Back under the car, I removed the right chassis brace.







Then scrubbed everything with a scourer to remove a couple decades of grime.





The area was painted with body deadener with brace refitted. I will remove the side skirt later to paint right to the edge, and eventually the whole underside will be cleaned and painted.





The inner tie rod joint felt in good condition (inside the rubber boot), so I have not replaced this. The outer tie rod ball joint also felt smooth, but easy to replace and I noticed the edge of the protective rubber boot was splitting.





The tie rod was cleaned, masked, and resprayed in situ. The concertina rubber boot was rejuvenated with Autoglym Bumper & Trim Gel.





Time to reassemble!  :D

New bolts to mount the LCA to the chassis, as similar spec as OE that I could readily find: M12x130mm, 8.8 tensile strength, thread pitch 1.5mm per turn (OE = M12x125mm, 8.8, 1.25mm).



Setting the new front rideheight: I previously determined I wanted approximately a 70mm drop. The distance from a marked point above to a marked point on the end of the LCA was originally 668mm; thus I refitted the torsion bar with the LCA at 598mm. This was achieve by supporting the end of the LCA with a hydraulic jack at this distance, then inserting the torsion bar; splines needed to line-up front and rear, then the bar was gently hammered home.





With the torsion bar fitted, the distance was confirmed. OK, 1mm out is good enough: 597mm.





More photos of the LCA bolted to the chassis with torsion bar refitted.







To fit the new lower balljoint into the LCA, I bought a generic tool.





However, I could not generate enough force to press the balljoint as far as required. Live and learn - took the LCA off the car again and did the job properly with the 20 ton press! At least the pieces from the tool kit remained useful. And I can confirm - as other owners pointed out to me recently - there remains a small gap between the balljoint flange and LCA; it's just meant to be! Next time, on the other side, I'll remember to fit the balljoint before fitting the LCA to the car.  ::)





Refitting the upper control arm (UCA) using a Superflex polyurethane (PU) bush instead of the OE style rubber bush. And new bolt, OE-spec 8.8 tensile strength.





Passing the bolt through the bush from inside the engine bay was very awkward - I had been forewarned by various forum comments. Plus, to help hold and guide the bolt I was using a 17mm socket piece; I should not have let this go from my hand, as it dropped into a deep chassis pocket...not to be seen again! I'm surely not the only person to have ever done this.  :o



New upper balljoint bolted to the UCA.



Castle nuts and split pins are an elegant solution to preventing nuts from undoing. But the nut supplied with the new upper balljoint was too tall to line up the slots with the pin hole; so I reused the original.





The steering knuckle was refitted, bolted to the upper and lower balljoints and new tie rod end, all secured with castle nuts and split pins. I removed the plastic bag and grease from the axle stub.



Caster rod, joiner, and new balljoint flange were cleaned and sprayed with primer then gloss black.





Balljoint bolted to the chassis pocket with the supplied hardware.



Fitting the retaining bolt at the rear end of the caster rod required the UCA to be pushed back, to line up bolt with hole. I used the handle from my old hydraulic jack for leverage, and a couple cloths to prevent damage to the paint.



Caster rod fitted, reusing the original rear bolt which has a lock nut and split pin. The new balljoint provides a slightly longer threaded section compared with the original piece; it is currently wound-in as far as possible for the shortest length. I compared the total length between original and new, and the new rod is 5mm longer. This will result in more caster angle for the steering knuckle, which is something I am already aiming for (ie: 5-6 degrees instead of factory 4.5 degrees). If the current setting is too high, I will need to cut the balljoint thread shorter, but the wheel alignment is some time off in the distant future!





Thus, the front right suspension is nearly completed. I need to refit the wheel hub and bearings, and temporarily fit the original brake disc and caliper (future upgrades when $$ permit!). Then eventually fit the new shock absorber/coilover (when $$$ permit!). The rideheight is only a guess at this stage, so that will be assessed once the left side is completed and car is back onto the ground; I need to be prepared to reset the torsion bars if it's wrong.

Having spent hours/days slowly removing the front right suspension, that experience meant I could dismantle the left side quickly and with confidence. A brake pad wear sensor is incorporated into one of the pads on the left side; I previously decided to abandon this (as future pad upgrades will lack the sensor wires), and already removed the loom connection inside the engine bay.

Wheel arch liner and caster rod had been removed and put aside earlier.







Behind the rear of the wheel arch liner, plenty of debris had collected.



Splash guard and steering knuckle removed. The tie rod end (TRE) balljoint was difficult to separate from the knuckle; was easiest to unscrew the TRE from the tie rod and transfer to the hydraulic press to apply massive force. A little corrosion explained the union.



Measured the distance from an arbitrary (but similar to the other side) point above, to the end of the LCA marked with a punch, at full droop (torsion bar in place): 672mm. Whilst the reference point above may be slightly 'out' compared with the other side of the car, and allowing slight variances in chassis alignment during assembly, this difference of 4mm greater was no surprise. Before commencing the suspension, I measured from the ground to wheel arch, and did find the left side slightly higher. So when I reset the height on this side, I will make it 4mm 'lower'.





Lower balljoint removed with similar technique to other side: force via 3-prong puller, then wedging into the small gap between balljoint flange and LCA.



Torsion bar extracted, then LCA rotated down to expose the bolt heads.





LCA removed. Interestingly on this side, camber adjustment shims were fitted. They are only very thin - I'll measure accurately later but no more than 1mm - and sandwich between the chassis and spacer collars. Shimming the LCA 'out' increases camber angle; I can't imagine by very much, but I will refit them and await the wheel alignment results.





Left side torsion bar removed, and UCA.





Now the front left wheel arch is bare, ready for the overhaul.



Lastly, some teaser pics. I had the CSC headers and front pipes ceramic coated by Modern Plating, Oakleigh.





See you next month!

:)
« Last Edit: September 26, 2020, 04:21:11 AM by shiny_car »
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GT . 3.2 V6 . Q2 . Kyalami Black - Red
75 . 3.0 V6 . Alfa Red - Grey

Beatle

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Re: Project car - 1989 75 3.0 V6
« Reply #173 on: May 08, 2013, 10:22:25 PM »
Love ya work!   What are you using to spray the body deadener on the underside?   I recently blasted under my 90 with degreaser and the big Karcher and now have some red paint and some grey primer to cover......

BTW, don't be surprised if your front suspension heights are out when you settle her back on her wheels.  There's no guarantee the T bars will settle the same (wiithin your 4mm) and probably less chance that the relationships between suspension pickup points and the lip of the front guards are the same within 4mm side-to-side.  Then add that the car is not evenly weighted laterally and you may well need to rotate a T bar at a later date.

But, ya never know ya luck. :)
Paul B
QLD

Past:
'79 GTV - Loyal 1st love
'76 GT - Track entry
'89 75TS - Saved
'76 Alfetta - Sacrificed
'83 GTV6 - NT bullet
'67 Duetto - Fun
'66 Super - Endearing
'92 164 - Stunning
'85 90 - Odd
'04 GT 3.2 Rosso/Tan - Glorious
'02 156 V6 Auto Rosso/Tan - Useful daily

shiny_car

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Re: Project car - 1989 75 3.0 V6
« Reply #174 on: May 09, 2013, 09:20:02 AM »
Thanks Paul. :)

What are you using to spray the body deadener on the underside?

I am using brush-on 3M Body Deadener (brush, then finishing with a cheap dispoble small paint roller for the texture). I've started with a 1L tin which has gone surprisingly far (adding a little thinners along the way), but have a 4L tin to move onto next. http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL97/467659/23841191/398747099.jpg

However, I do have spray-on 3M stuff as well. I just decided that brush-on was not as tedious as expected, and I don't have to contend with masking, overspray, face mask, and trying to spray when there isn't much space under the car.

I've bought both from Super Cheap Auto.

Quote
BTW, don't be surprised if your front suspension heights are out when you settle her back on her wheels.

Yep, I have a suspicion it won't be that easy!

:)
Giulietta QV TCT . 1.75 TBi . Magnesio Grey - Black
GT . 3.2 V6 . Q2 . Kyalami Black - Red
75 . 3.0 V6 . Alfa Red - Grey

Beatle

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Re: Project car - 1989 75 3.0 V6
« Reply #175 on: May 09, 2013, 05:42:15 PM »
Cool.  I was wondering how you got the texture but kept your floors clean  ;D 

Foam roller?

Years ago I used to paint under the guards with tyre black before a club display.   Cheap, easy, fast drying.
Paul B
QLD

Past:
'79 GTV - Loyal 1st love
'76 GT - Track entry
'89 75TS - Saved
'76 Alfetta - Sacrificed
'83 GTV6 - NT bullet
'67 Duetto - Fun
'66 Super - Endearing
'92 164 - Stunning
'85 90 - Odd
'04 GT 3.2 Rosso/Tan - Glorious
'02 156 V6 Auto Rosso/Tan - Useful daily

shiny_car

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Re: Project car - 1989 75 3.0 V6
« Reply #176 on: May 09, 2013, 08:36:00 PM »
I use these from Bunnings: http://www.bunnings.com.au/products_product_uni-pro-75mm-sample-pot-paint-roller-kit_P1678256.aspx

Use and throw (disposable). I tried another cheap roller recently, but clumps of 'fibrous nap' worked loose which was annoying. So I'll now stick with what I know works for me.

Painting tyre black sounds like a neat trick!

:)
Giulietta QV TCT . 1.75 TBi . Magnesio Grey - Black
GT . 3.2 V6 . Q2 . Kyalami Black - Red
75 . 3.0 V6 . Alfa Red - Grey

shiny_car

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Re: Project car - 1989 75 3.0 V6
« Reply #177 on: June 03, 2013, 04:17:16 PM »
The weather's been pretty average the past month, and I've been under the weather myself on occasions, so not a lot of progress to show. And paint doesn't dry when metal parts are so cold, so I was using a heatgun to warm things up.  :P  I allowed each paint stage 'days' to dry, so whilst the steps look quick and easy, much of the time was waiting for the paint to fully dry!

First up, refurbishing the upper control arm (UCA). Grinder used to shave off the rivet heads securing the upper balljoint, then hydraulic press to punch them out.





Then removing the old bushing.





Old paint and surface corrosion stripped from UCA. Then sprayed with Etch Primer, then Enamel Primer, then finally gloss black enamel.







Removing the old bushes and support bar from the lower control arm (LCA). Then cleaned with rotating wire brush and prepared for respraying.





Pieces sprayed with Etch Primer then Enamel Primer. Wheel hub was separated from brake disc and also primed.







Then pieces sprayed with gloss black enamel.





Steering knuckle refurbished similarly: cleaned, sprayed with primer, then finished with gloss black.





That's it for the past month. I'm working on cleaning the wheel arch and underneath the chassis, ready for body deadener. Then I can begin reassembling the suspension on this side.

See you next month!

:)
« Last Edit: September 26, 2020, 04:26:07 AM by shiny_car »
Giulietta QV TCT . 1.75 TBi . Magnesio Grey - Black
GT . 3.2 V6 . Q2 . Kyalami Black - Red
75 . 3.0 V6 . Alfa Red - Grey

ARQ164 Shane

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Re: Project car - 1989 75 3.0 V6
« Reply #178 on: June 05, 2013, 12:11:48 PM »
Gday shiny_man

the paint anything special or just Black enamel ? ??? :) ??? ;)
Hi Neighbour,
1973 L beetle "Tilly" sold
87 QV 75 ALFA 2.5lt sold
92 auto 164 3lt RIP
91 white 164 Q
89 164 Q part car

shiny_car

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Re: Project car - 1989 75 3.0 V6
« Reply #179 on: June 05, 2013, 08:24:59 PM »
Hey alphie :)

It's nothing special. In fact, cheap White Knight spray paint from Bunnings. As with any painting, 'preparation' is key, so having a well cleaned and primed surface is important for the top coat to stick and last. Hence, using etch primer then general enamel primer initially. I haven't gone as far as finishing with clear coat, but meh, this should be fine for suspension parts.

:)
Giulietta QV TCT . 1.75 TBi . Magnesio Grey - Black
GT . 3.2 V6 . Q2 . Kyalami Black - Red
75 . 3.0 V6 . Alfa Red - Grey