Hi Everyone

[gold33]

I am a new member based in Christchurch NZ.
I have never owned an Alfa before but have built some intersting club race cars when i lived in Aus, I was there for 25 years plus.
I lived in VIC and did a lot of hill climbs and club sprints etc.
Anyhow over here I have just picked up a 33 1.7 Cloverleaf 8 Valve . My intention is to create a fun club car for sprints, club racing and hill climbs.

The car has what others have said is a bad 2nd gear syncro, it could be the case but I am sure the problem could be a collapsed clutch diaphram.
It could be both I suppose. very hard to select gears at standstill especially when hot. Could be both i suppose. 

Any help with modifications for club sport would be appreciated , cam profiles, porting, exhaust, cold air intake. Poly bushes etc, basically advice on making this little car even more fun than it is.

good to be a member of your great site.

Gold33

[colcol]

Hi gold 33, i am a long time 33 owner, that is 25 fun filled years, of 33-ing, the 2nd gear crunching is common of all Alfasuds and 33's, you could try taking on a good run, getting the gearbox oil nice and hot, and then draining it, then have a look at the drained oil, if it is horribly dirty and there is a lot of metal fillings on the magnetic drain plug, then put some elcheapo mineral oil back in it two and a half litres, if i remember rightly and then run it for a few hundred kays and then drain it again, if it a lot cleaner then you have cleaned all the muck out of the gearbox, now put some good 80-90 fully synthetic oil in it and it show a marked improvement, if not you may have to renew the 2nd gear synchro, which would be an ideal time to renew the clutch, these units are pretty tough and long lasting, i ran my 33 in standard class for 15 years in the Alfa club vic sprints and running in standard form means it was quite reliable which means if you want to go faster, you have to improve your driving skills, but then i had to drive it to work the next day!, a cold air intake will most likely help as  as cold air will produce some more power due to being able to pack more air in, with poly bushes you have to be carefull as the bushes have to flex a certain amount to stop the metal around it flexing, i have seen suspension mountings pull out of chassis's so be carefull, but the most important thing is to baffle the sump of the engine to keep the oil in the sump to stop it running bearings, enjoy your 33, Colin.

[gold33]

Thanks Colin,

I appreciate your advice, its interesting i had planned to flush the gearbox just the way you suggest and see what happens, wow just had another big shake, nastiest one for a while.

Take your point about the poly bushes.

Am fabricating a cold air intake.

I am taking the motor and gearbox out to do the clutch anyhow  so will check over all components as i do that, and baffle the sump.

Cheers Steve

[Miss Alfa Sprint]

Hi Gold 33

welcome to the AO forum!!!! Good to see more 33 owners on here 


Miss Alfa Sprint

[Andrew Bose]

Hi Gold 33,

hope you enjoy your 33 as much as I have my two for the last eight or nine years. I agree with colcol as the harder bushes can cause problems especially the flex bush in the middle of the front control arms which needs flex to stop the lower arms cracking. Keep an eye on the front subframe as they are prone to cracking. I would use hard springs in the rear, medium on the front and a set of stiff bushes on the front sway bar as it makes the rear slide just enough to turn quickly if you do not mind the handling being a little twitchy. the other trick I have used is to put a brace between the end of the master cylinder and the second firewall as it improves the feel without a lot of cash, also run the high temperature brake fluid like Motul 600 along with the best pads you can afford as it will stop the brakes fading when you stamp on the pedal at the end of a long straight. If the car is for track use only look at elongating the lower mounting holes to add negative camber, do not move the top as it will cause excessive bump steer when you hit pot holes or curbs.

The sump baffles are great but I just put a litre of oil above the full mark and have had no problems to date (touch wood).

Hope this helps you you out.

[colcol]

Be carefull adding too much oil as the high oil level can cause the crankshaft to splash around in the sump causing too much drag by pushing the crankshaft through the oil and also you can cause the oil to foam up and have too much air in it, and air is not a good lubricant for the bearings, and the oil leval will be high and can cause leakage between the sump gasket \ engine block, just run a good thick engine oil, we used to run Penrite HPR 50 and it seemed to cope allright, but on a daily basis it would create drag in the engine, using more fuel, which is better than a spun bearing, Colin.

[Andrew Bose]

Colcol is right,
I should have made it clear that the sump baffles are the best way to go but as a temporary fix extra oil is much cheaper when comparing the cost of extra fuel to a spun bearing and an engine rebuild.

Colcol,
Good to know we use the same oil but I use HPR 40 in summer or on the track and HPR 30 in winter.

Does anyone else have any oil preferences for their boxer on the track?

[colcol]

Err Penrite now have a HPR 40, it must be so long since i had the 33 on the track!, we used to use HPR 30 in the winter and HPR 50 in the summer, put a oil temperature gauge in the sump and you will be horrified at the oil temperature, and if you were like us with 2 drivers, the poor 33 never used to get a chance to cool down, but i think the best thing after baffling the sump would be an oil cooler WITH a thermostat, as we found engines failures are higher when the oil is hotter, the only thing would be to balance the more weight and potential oil leaks issues, Colin.

[gold33]

Hi Everyone again, thanks for welcoming comments and advice.
I now have the car stripped down to shell.
So will give me a chance to Baffle the sump, (does any one have a plan for this) build a cold air intake, get rid of excess weight and fit roll cage.
I also going to speak to kelford about cams but i dont want to get too carried away. Has anyone lightened the flywheel on a boxer? Or had an alloy flywheel fabricated?

I thought I could make a comment on oil also. I have enjoyed 15 years in the oil industry including Penrite, I also re-introduced AGIP into the Australian retail market back in 1994, I was with Ampol then and we blended the Agip product.
Anyhow, some key points about oil.
Mineral oil typically starts to degregate above 100deg C by the time it reaches 120deg its in the red danger zone of not being able to protect.
If you combine this with the propencity for carbed race cars to overfuel you very quickly run into the probelm of fuel dilution. This then turns your normally combustable oil into a flammable mixture of oil and fuel. Thus causing burning, and killing its lubrcation qualities.  I still run mineral in my race cars but ensure I change it at every 2nd meeting and have a cooler.A word on viscosity, all oils are blended to meet  an API Spec viscosities are measured at 40deg C 1st number and 100 deg C 2nd . EG 20w /50, 
Penrite always provided a higher, high temp viscosity for Aussie conditions. (extra protection).  HPR 30 and 40 are  fine mineral oils in medium size engines. 

[gold33]

I should also point out that the two Viscosity numbers are not the same measure, IE: the oil doesnt get thicker as the numbers suggest.
Another quirky thing is about cold start  viscosities. Something to ponder, because oils need to have viscosity tests done at 40 and 100 deg c what does that mean in the real world. IE what happens at startup when the engine is cold, what are the charactoristics of oil at say 10-15deg C.
This can be quites strange, Penrites Syn 5 5w/60 actually is much more viscous, (flows slower) than Penrites HPR 30 20w/60 at 10 degrees.

Another note, most lower viscosity oils have been created in response to auto manufacturers having to meet stringent emission standards. Whilst there is some truth that with complicated multi and variable valve timing arrangements have contributed to this. The key really is emissions.

I think too that Penrite still produces some oil types with higher ZDDP content. That great for all us older style engine fans.

cheers Steve

[colcol]

I have said before, i am not a scientist, but i know what oils i used to avoid having my engine spinning a bearing, when i was doing track work, synthetic oils were starting to come in, but i gave them a miss because i don't know enough about them, but i know that synthetic oils work great in 33 gearboxes, as regards baffling the sump i had a engineer make me a baffle for my sump, if you want to know who it is please send me an email and i will give you details, and the front rails crack on early 33's and suds, i beleive this was a pre determined weak point to assist crumple zones in a front end accident, a stop gap fix is to drill a 3mm hole at the end of the crack to stop it spreading, and to spread the forces evenly, but a good long term solution is to weld a reinforcing plate over the crack, the same thickness as the rail, so its easier to weld, and you are only making it slightly stronger, overwise the forces may go elsewere and cause cracking in a more critical place, Colin.

[philpot]

the front rails crack on early 33's and suds, i beleive this was a pre determined weak point to assist crumple zones in a front end accident

Interesting to note that to solve (?) this problem, the 16V has a pair of bolt-on braces running from the rails to the firewall, effectively triangulating them...  I don't think this would assist the front end to crumple in a crash... But, it does stop the front end snapping off due to the progressively more powerful engines that were fitted to suds/33's !

[colcol]

And on the later model 33's they redesigned the subframe to run the stresses further back in the body rather than being concentrated just on the front, i know of a certain Alfasud that spent about 10 years of its life running round race tracks on Sundays, then it drove round Australia and did 40,000 kls in 4 months and is now 28 years old and the rails on that car are cracked and have been for years, but still manages to keep going, apart from most likely failing a roadworthy, has any members actually heard of the subframes breaking away from the body?, Colin.

[philpot]

Wow, that's impressive! Cant claim to be an expert as my sud's only done 512 000 km, in the 27 years I've had it ... But no, its not in two pieces yet !  Haven't tested the crumple zones and where they fold either (fortunately) !  Have any other members ?

PS: Yes gold33, I too was advised by alfa experts to just slightly overfill the oil level for the occasional track day, about another 1/4 to 1/3 above the full mark when taking to the track. Also, Penrite HPR 30 was their oil of choice too.

Keep us up to date of what you're up to ! Enjoy !! 

Cheers, Phil

[colcol]

The Suds and 33's subframes crack along the rails where there is a notch in the rail where the driveshaft passes thru, the cracks run upwards, another thing regarding oil levels, always make sure that the bottom of the sump isn't damaged as if its been belted on the bottom, then it might be hard up against the oil pump pickup this can cause oil starvation, if in doubt, next time you change your oil, shine a light thru the sump drain plug hole and see if there is clearance between the sump and the oil pump pickup, Colin.