Author Topic: Trying to register a 2000GTV  (Read 6950 times)

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MMXX

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Trying to register a 2000GTV
« on: May 31, 2021, 10:34:05 PM »
Hi everyone,

I've just recently purchase an Alfa Romeo 2000GTV from NSW and had it shipped to me here in Melbourne. I've been trying to register the car, but VicRoads say that they cannot find any history of registration (it was on historic registration in Sydney and that apparently doesn't mean anything to VicRoads). The car had no history when I bought it as apparently it was stored away for many years.

My issue is this:

1. The chassis number stamped on the firewall is AR2412442 but on the compliance plate it is AR24212443. Either someone has made an innocent mistake, or there has been some confusion somewhere.  Engine # is AR00512.69427
2. Is there anywhere that I could get this information to verify that the chassis # actually matches the car, and the compliance plate was a simple mistake.

Here's a photo of the car for reference:



Any help would be greatly appreciated :)

giulia_veloce

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Re: Trying to register a 2000GTV
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2021, 05:33:19 AM »
My records show

AR 2412443 was destroyed in 1980,,,shell only

MMXX

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Re: Trying to register a 2000GTV
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2021, 09:03:00 AM »
Do you have anything that comes up with AR2412442 which is the actual number stamped on the firewall?

Craig_m67

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Re: Trying to register a 2000GTV
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2021, 09:20:54 AM »
Vin numbers (chassis) are held by a federal (commonwealth?) agency. 

When I imported Sooty, I had to contact them and get the VIN loaded onto the system so that every state/territory could then see/register it.. without this, the car simply didn’t exist (irrespective of it sitting outside their office). From memory, I had to get permission from DoTARs to do this before it was even shipped.

Although I’m not sure how far back their records go, perhaps you could contact NEVDIS and ask them about your (2) Chassis/VIN numbers.

Hopefully the original chassis hasn’t been “written off” and removed.  Although the rules change by state, it’s nearly impossible to re register a vehicle that’s been “written off”

https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/vehicles/imports/vins.aspx
(Edit) reading the blurb, they only keep info from 1989
I would simply contact (call) NSW reg and ask them for some help.. (what did they say?)


Depending on the age, it may also not require a compliance plate. 
My ‘66 Duetto for instance never had one.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2021, 09:30:36 AM by Craig_m67 »
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Gary Pearce

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Re: Trying to register a 2000GTV
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2021, 09:24:10 PM »
It is my understanding, that in Victoria you require proof of ownership.....and some indication that the car has been in Australia previously. (ie not just imported) and a Roadworthy Certificate. You will have to declare a purchase price also. Your records of other car/s in your name registered in Victoria is also helps.
The confusion with the chassis number doesn't usually bother Vic Roads as if they have doubts they will ask to inspect the car and provide you with a new Chassis number to be used from now onwards. Head office in Carlton might get you better results, and if a clerk is finding your case a little complicated, ask to speak to their superior.
Now......if you don't need to drive it everyday you could 'Club register' your car (see Club instructions on this site) you still need a RWC but if you are a Club member and the Club signs you off, you only need to visit Vic Roads to pick up the red Club plates.
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MMXX

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Re: Trying to register a 2000GTV
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2021, 09:10:55 AM »
Thanks for the reply guys. The issue that VicRoads has is that they can't find any record of the car being previously registered in Australia, and as such they have referred the matter to the police as the car is now deemed 'suspicious' and they want to forensically examine it. Personally I think it's overkill as it's clear to see what the chassis number is on the firewall and it hasn't been etched or removed.

I'm trying to track down information to get some history of the car as I don't want the police to take it as they said it can take up to 3 months. 

bazzbazz

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Re: Trying to register a 2000GTV
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2021, 09:43:22 AM »
The issue that VicRoads has is that they can't find any record of the car being previously registered in Australia, and as such they have referred the matter to the police as the car is now deemed 'suspicious' and they want to forensically examine it.

Yes, it's all the rage with crime gangs these days, re-birthing little 4 cylinder cars from the 60s & 70s . . . . . .  ::)
« Last Edit: June 03, 2021, 04:10:31 PM by bazzbazz »
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Colin Edwards

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Re: Trying to register a 2000GTV
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2021, 11:27:33 AM »
Good advice Gary!

MMXX,
If you do consider a 45 day or 90 VicRoads Club Permit Scheme rego, it may be worthwhile talking to the Club CPS officer Ivan Ciardullo for further advice.
cps@alfaclubvic.org.au

Colin
« Last Edit: June 03, 2021, 11:41:09 AM by Colin Edwards »
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Craig_m67

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Re: Trying to register a 2000GTV
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2021, 01:14:28 PM »
What history, providence do you have with the car?

Do you know the previous historic reg number.. I just punched a couple of NSW historic plated red GTV’s I google image searched into the NSW rego website and it told me everything (three of them have sequential plates interestingly enough), none of them had your VIN

You could also flick an email to Alfa Museo with the chassis VIN, they sell birth certificates now which include the dealer, date and country where the vehicle was first exported to/sold by Alfa.
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Anth73

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Re: Trying to register a 2000GTV
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2021, 05:03:01 PM »
When I bought a 1974 2000GTV form an elderley owner in Adelaide it had not been registerd for over 10 years and hence there was no evidence of it ever being registered in their systems even though I had the original SA numberplate still on the car.

Like someone else suggested, get the previous owner to provide the NSW club rego it was on, that should help. Otherwise pay the 80 euro for each chassis number to find out what the Alfa archives can tell you just fo ryour own piece of mind.

alfagtv85

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Re: Trying to register a 2000GTV
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2021, 10:20:57 AM »
VicRoads will need to ascertain where the vehicle came from before registering the vehicle, even though it has been registered as a Historic vehicle in NSW.

What you need to do is seek out the previous owner to determine whether they have information from where the vehicle came from, if it is an imported vehicle, what import papers they have, if these can be produced then you can show these to VicRoads who should accept both the Historic registration and the import documentation.

Many vehicles are direct imports and if you have the required custom and import documentation can be process within Australia.

Compliance plates on vehicles are only applicable to vehicle after 1989 production year, as this vehicle would be before this date there would be no compliance other than the manufacture plate.

There have been several occasions where the manufacture plate on older vehicles and the chassis number may be mismatched, but this is rare.

As mentioned by Giulia veloce  AR 2412443 was destroyed in 1980,,,shell only, it would look as if the vehicle has been rebuilt with a replacement shell. The manufacture plate would possibly have been removed during restoration and possibly mislaid and another substituted.

What you need to look at is whether the chassis and engine number have been altered from the original stamping as this is what the forensic check will entail, if they have been altered then you have a problem, and the car can be seized by the police until ownership is determined.
 
VicRoads would have undertaken a search of both their records, interstate checks and the stolen vehicle records to determine whether one or both identification numbers are listed on there databases. As it is not then automatically the vehicle would be referred to VicPol.

The above information is from someone who worked at VicRoads a number of years ago and things may have changed slightly.[/i]
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MMXX

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Re: Trying to register a 2000GTV
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2021, 11:27:41 AM »
VicRoads will need to ascertain where the vehicle came from before registering the vehicle, even though it has been registered as a Historic vehicle in NSW.

What you need to do is seek out the previous owner to determine whether they have information from where the vehicle came from, if it is an imported vehicle, what import papers they have, if these can be produced then you can show these to VicRoads who should accept both the Historic registration and the import documentation.

Many vehicles are direct imports and if you have the required custom and import documentation can be process within Australia.

Compliance plates on vehicles are only applicable to vehicle after 1989 production year, as this vehicle would be before this date there would be no compliance other than the manufacture plate.

There have been several occasions where the manufacture plate on older vehicles and the chassis number may be mismatched, but this is rare.

As mentioned by Giulia veloce  AR 2412443 was destroyed in 1980,,,shell only, it would look as if the vehicle has been rebuilt with a replacement shell. The manufacture plate would possibly have been removed during restoration and possibly mislaid and another substituted.

What you need to look at is whether the chassis and engine number have been altered from the original stamping as this is what the forensic check will entail, if they have been altered then you have a problem, and the car can be seized by the police until ownership is determined.
 
VicRoads would have undertaken a search of both their records, interstate checks and the stolen vehicle records to determine whether one or both identification numbers are listed on there databases. As it is not then automatically the vehicle would be referred to VicPol.

The above information is from someone who worked at VicRoads a number of years ago and things may have changed slightly.[/i]

The car has a compliance plated fitted but with the mismatched VIN by one digit. It doesn't appear that the original chassis number has been altered nor the engine number; they both appear to be consistent with what they look like on other vehicles.

The previous owner purchased the car from an owner in Melbourne (whom he is in contact with) but doesn't have any history of the vehicle. I know the previous owner well and has owned the car since 2003 and it has been on NSW club plates since then.

Apparently the car is an Australian delivered vehicle, but it has no history and the VIN is off by one digit.

I can give the car to VicPolice and I'm confident that nothing has been altered, but time will tell.

Thank you for your help.

MMXX

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Re: Trying to register a 2000GTV
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2021, 11:28:09 AM »
The issue that VicRoads has is that they can't find any record of the car being previously registered in Australia, and as such they have referred the matter to the police as the car is now deemed 'suspicious' and they want to forensically examine it.

Yes, it's all the rage with crime gangs these days, re-birthing little 4 cylinder cars from the 60s & 70s . . . . . .  ::)

Yeah exactly :)

MMXX

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Re: Trying to register a 2000GTV
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2021, 11:32:04 AM »
Good advice Gary!

MMXX,
If you do consider a 45 day or 90 VicRoads Club Permit Scheme rego, it may be worthwhile talking to the Club CPS officer Ivan Ciardullo for further advice.
cps@alfaclubvic.org.au

Colin


Thinking about this. My only concern is, if VicRoads have this car on this system now as 'suspicious', will they knock back club rego?


[/quote]
What history, providence do you have with the car?

Do you know the previous historic reg number.. I just punched a couple of NSW historic plated red GTV’s I google image searched into the NSW rego website and it told me everything (three of them have sequential plates interestingly enough), none of them had your VIN

You could also flick an email to Alfa Museo with the chassis VIN, they sell birth certificates now which include the dealer, date and country where the vehicle was first exported to/sold by Alfa.

Hey Craig, previous NSW rego was 11937-J. Punching that into service NSW it matches the VIN on the chassis. I've tried reaching out to Alfa Museo but haven't heard anything back as of yet.

vin sharp

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Re: Trying to register a 2000GTV
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2021, 06:30:18 PM »
Two years ago I had a car registered on club rego.  I had no record of any previous Australian registration, just the receipt of sale from the person I bought it from.
I simply followed the 'new permit application' procedure & obtained a roadworthy & filled out the forms, went to the VicRoads office (without having to take the car) & paid the fee. Got back in return the club rego permit & nice new plates. Took them home & screwed 'em on.
 End of story. Couldn't have been simpler.