Author Topic: Killed my 156 TS - 147 transplant viable?  (Read 535 times)

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MattK

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Killed my 156 TS - 147 transplant viable?
« on: January 27, 2019, 12:36:31 PM »
With a heavy heart I have to say that in hot weather under heavy load, my 156 TS (2000, series 1) "nipped up" and brought me to a halt 130km from home. After an expensive tow the mechanic tells me it starts and runs OK but at the first sign of load it makes a nasty big-end bearing kind of noise. A friend has offered me the engine from a 147 TS as a donor - I am just wondering whether there are any issues or if it's a drop-in replacement (switching some of the engine management stuff of course).
After purchase and getting timing belts done I am 5 grand into the car - guessing the labour would be about 2 grand to do it. Do I want 7 grand in a 2000 156 TS? Is there a better option? Doubt I would get much for it with a shot bottom end, although the interior is nice and it's still a pretty car of course. If I'm gonna replace it I am going to want something manual and with the same level of driver engagement.
All thoughts, input and reality checks welcome.

CitroŽnbender

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Re: Killed my 156 TS - 147 transplant viable?
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2019, 01:16:53 PM »
Have you determined the root cause?

MattK

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Re: Killed my 156 TS - 147 transplant viable?
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2019, 04:23:46 PM »
I have very little info to go on - only the verbal report I gave above, from a friend who works for that mechanic, giving me a heads-up as to what to expect when they take a look at it properly next week. He seemed quite confident that it sounded like a big end bearing. When I got the car off the tow truck there was a bit of chalky green residue under the lid of the coolant reservoir, which might indicate a reaction with the previous coolant when I topped it up with whatever I had in the shed (I know, I know). No mayonnaise under the oil cap though. At first glance the mechanic suspected a cooling failure - perhaps a fan not coming on or a blockage somewhere. Water pump was changed with the cam belts six months ago.

poohbah

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Re: Killed my 156 TS - 147 transplant viable?
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2019, 05:53:10 PM »
That's a real shame Matt, but ignoring the technical side of things, if it's going to cost $2k (which - if realistic - sounds pretty cheap to me) to get your car back into working condition, and it is otherwise in good nick, you may still be able to get $4-5k if you sell, for a net loss of $2-3k.

If you sell it as is now, I can't see you getting more than a few hundred bucks.

*Just realised you said its a MY2000, so getting on a bit. Which means once fixed, a realistic sales price is more likely $2500-$3500, depending on condition. Which makes it more of a conundrum.

That said, once fixed, you could keep it as long as you like, get a couple more years of enjoyment out of it and still probably get the same amount on a sale. Comes down to how much it will actually cost to get an appropriate working engine in it.

« Last Edit: January 27, 2019, 05:59:03 PM by poohbah »
Now:    1999 156 V6
             1981 GTV
Before: 2001 156 V6 (sadly cremated)

CitroŽnbender

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Re: Killed my 156 TS - 147 transplant viable?
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2019, 07:01:49 AM »
What seems to kill uncommon cars in Tasmania is a lack of support - informed mechanics, access to a breadth of used parts and timely supply of consumables can all work against an enjoyable period of ďcustodianshipĒ. Plus the UV smashing everything.

I asked about diagnosis because an acquaintance (his workshop) recently had an engine seize from filter failure, the wholesaler did not dispute this finding and are covering parts plus book labour. The paper media became unbonded and fairly blocked the outlet, and the emergency pressure bypass didnít really work. Most frustrating because the engine has been rebuilt twice already and a whole lot of time was invested to make sure its internals were spot on!
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 08:33:53 AM by CitroŽnbender »

MattK

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Re: Killed my 156 TS - 147 transplant viable?
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2019, 10:41:57 AM »
Wise words thanks fellas - I have to say that although I have a good personal relationship with my usual mechanic, I ended up at Vinaka (the local Alfa/Fiat "manufacturer" service centre) and I heard a lot of very detailed and informed discussion about lubrication, coolants, maintenance etc. I have to say I suspect I wasn't getting the most informed advice about upkeep, my usual guy has a lot of knowledge of the rear wheel drive era but may be a bit iffy about cars from the 2000s onwards.
I guess it boils down to whether it's worth dropping $2500 to drive away in a car worth $2500 at most - the "sunk cost" fallacy is hard to see past. Fortunately I have a friend with an Audi A3 she can loan me indefinitely so I have time to wait for something good to come up for sale, if I need. There's a 166 3.0 V6 for $2800 but I've never warmed to the 166 and it's got 200k on the odometer ... who knows what heartaches are in store there. Also a 156 wagon, but it's Selespeed and I do like a manual shifter.
Unless someone wants to sell me a cheap 159 JTS or a 156 V6? I could be swayed, I miss my Busso engined 75.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 10:44:54 AM by MattK »

CitroŽnbender

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Re: Killed my 156 TS - 147 transplant viable?
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2019, 11:23:55 AM »
Is the 147 motor a good runner?

MattK

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Re: Killed my 156 TS - 147 transplant viable?
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2019, 04:23:31 PM »
Well thatís the question I guess - the guy offering it to me is a friend and doesnít want anything for it, but Iíd describe him as an optimist generally. Often a little too much so. He reckons it was running well before a Selespeed failure took the car off the road.

Pseudonym

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Re: Killed my 156 TS - 147 transplant viable?
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2019, 04:35:49 PM »
Well, free engine, if it's still in the car possibly quick comp test and maybe you're out of trouble for $2k? Personally I'm terrible at cutting my losses but when I have it's because death by a thousand cuts - it's the many little jobs that make ownership too hard basket. If the 156 is in good condition otherwise just keep at it, if the body and electrics need TLC timewise it's usually better to move on.

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CitroŽnbender

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Re: Killed my 156 TS - 147 transplant viable?
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2019, 06:01:53 PM »
The 147 bears looking at.  Motor will physically fit; the bare minimum might be belts, balance shaft end plugs (considering your clutch is newish), crank sensor if original, thermostat, coolant and oil/filter.

Eyeball it, see if it will bump over, if the belts look OK, chance a startup then send an oil sample off.

Can't hire or borrow some gear to do a redneck engine swap with mates?

MattK

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Re: Killed my 156 TS - 147 transplant viable?
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2019, 09:43:02 PM »
I just don't have the time or skill - I'm an enthusiast but I haven't done many real world mechanical jobs. All a bit tricky since I have separated from my wife and don't have my old garage / work space!

Great ideas about those basic checks - and yeah it would feel a bit wasteful not to try getting it going again. It's not the best example of its kind but I do like it a lot.

MattK

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Re: Killed my 156 TS - 147 transplant viable?
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2019, 11:47:04 AM »
Vinaka took FOREVER to even look at my car, but the news is bad - big end bearing shot, would be a complete rebuild, or they have offered to transplant an engine with 120 000 km on it for "up to $3000 depending on labour" which I take to mean "$3000 at least". Given that the fuel tank sender is shot, and the front muffler is on its way out, I think it's time to say goodbye. Anyone want a beautiful tan leather interior? or even a 2001 156 with a shot engine?
I'm in the market for a 156 or a 159, manual transmission, if anyone is thinking of selling.

bazzbazz

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Re: Killed my 156 TS - 147 transplant viable?
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2019, 02:34:06 PM »
Well thatís the question I guess - the guy offering it to me is a friend and doesnít want anything for it, but Iíd describe him as an optimist generally. Often a little too much so. He reckons it was running well before a Selespeed failure took the car off the road.

Why not just take the free 147 and fix the Selespeed ?

Believe it or not, Selespeeds are usually quite simple and straight forward to repair 90% of the time.
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MattK

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Re: Killed my 156 TS - 147 transplant viable?
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2019, 05:12:18 PM »
No longer available, unfortunately.