Author Topic: 156 jts mcsf["bugga"]  (Read 9076 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

t-rev

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 54
156 jts mcsf["bugga"]
« on: June 07, 2013, 07:59:31 PM »
Hi,i'v just had the "mcsf" warning light come on,no beeping or flashing and no detectable problems while driving,revs smoothly  through the range and idles well.Any idea's?[maybey havn't touched enough wood!]thanks Trev

colcol

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4064
  • AROCA Member #: 1201
Re: 156 jts mcsf["bugga"]
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2013, 08:31:57 PM »
The dreaded Motor Control System Failure, [Go To Dealer] signal, if the car seems to be running ok, then it could be a bad earth, give the battery leads and terminals a clean and see how you go, Colin.
1974 VW Passat [ist car] 1984 Alfa 33TI [daily driver] 2002 Alfa 156 JTS [daily driver]

t-rev

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 54
Re: 156 jts mcsf["bugga"]
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2013, 09:43:10 PM »
Thanks Col,i'v been driving through a few deep puddles in my street because of heavy rain and im" also wondering if this could be upsetting things

Davidm1600

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1181
Re: 156 jts mcsf["bugga"]
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2013, 12:01:52 AM »
Otherwise, as most will tell you, the engine management system failure will be a Lambda sensor failure.  Put it on the diagnosis unit at your Alfa mechanics and they should be able to tell you what is going on.
Current:
2003 JTS 156 sportwagon
1969 Giulia sedan (x2)
1969 AC Fiat 124 sport

Past: '76 Alfetta 1.8 GT 
        '76 Alfetta 1.8 Sedan
        ' 73 2L Berlina

colcol

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4064
  • AROCA Member #: 1201
Re: 156 jts mcsf["bugga"]
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2013, 10:18:10 AM »
I had the same warning light come up with the odd misfire, replaced the FOUR Lambda sensors and now all is fine, it is recommended that the Lambda sensors are replaced as part of a service, some BMW models are done at 60,000klms, The Alfa Workshop in the UK recommend, if i remember correctly 90,000klms?, or when they start to give trouble, compared to the new ones, the old ones were very dirty, purchased mine from EB Spares in the UK, if you don't replace them when faulty, the engine computer can't check on the mixture and will most likely richen it up to avoid valve and piston burning, this will clog up the TWO catalytic convertors at the front of the engine and they are about $3500?, ouch, Colin.
1974 VW Passat [ist car] 1984 Alfa 33TI [daily driver] 2002 Alfa 156 JTS [daily driver]

Davidm1600

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1181
Re: 156 jts mcsf["bugga"]
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2013, 03:13:45 PM »
Col, as you know I too went through all this, and was dreading that I might need to have to replace a Cat. Glad it was just the final Sensor that needed changing and yes I agree EB Spares the place to get your parts. 

From memory I was told that a generic Cat for the 156 was around $1400, while a genuine factory item around $2.5K !!! so serious ouch factor.  Hence if sensors fail and/or really importantly, the thermostat packs it in (which they do), and you don't replace this item, there is every probability that sooner or later you will need to replace the Cat.

The other part which gives up the ghost and can provide similar symptoms to lambda sensor failures (not sure re the message)l, is the  coil pack.  Can't recall if there are more than one of these on JTS cars ?? 

Keep on top of things is always the key to smooth driving days !  ;D

Current:
2003 JTS 156 sportwagon
1969 Giulia sedan (x2)
1969 AC Fiat 124 sport

Past: '76 Alfetta 1.8 GT 
        '76 Alfetta 1.8 Sedan
        ' 73 2L Berlina

t-rev

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 54
Re: 156 jts mcsf["bugga"]
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2013, 05:12:24 PM »
Thanks,is there any way to tell if un burnt fuel is going into the cat?And how long does this need to be happening for it to wreck it?There is some soot deposits inside the exhuast but seems to be running fine.i'm getting a ecu scan during the week

colcol

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4064
  • AROCA Member #: 1201
Re: 156 jts mcsf["bugga"]
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2013, 06:42:07 PM »
Hey Davidm1750, as i found it is best to replace the 4 Lamdas, as they all get dirty and stop working properly at the same time, mine were all about the same amount of rubbish on them, doing 1 is almost as much work as doing 4 , jack the car up, remove undertray, front exhaust heat shield take off, etc, i got the odd misfire with mine and the go to dealer message.
The coil packs are different as they fail and the car only runs on 3 cylinders, so you know all about it, when my car started to misfire, i cleaned the spark plugs, still a misfire, then new spark plugs, misfiring still, then 4 new old coil packs i purchased off ebay for about $80?, no result, so i gambled on new Lambda sensors and it worked, i used to have a VL Commodore with the RB 30 Nissan motor and it had one Lamda Sensor, and at $35 each, when it would idle rough and misfire i would replace the Lambda every year, so i thought i could guess at a worn Lambda sensor, Colin.
1974 VW Passat [ist car] 1984 Alfa 33TI [daily driver] 2002 Alfa 156 JTS [daily driver]

t-rev

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 54
Re: 156 jts mcsf["bugga"]
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2013, 06:39:45 PM »
Hi,i got a reading from a local mechanic pointing to errors with two lambda's,he cleaned the connections and cleared the mcsf and so far so good[didn't charge me at all because he couln't tell me for sure what problem was].I still need to take it to an alfa specialist to see if it's the connections,faulty lambda'a or kentuky fried cat's[hope not!]If the cat's are gone how does that effect performance?And how long can it be driven like that?Also does Aussie fuel play havoc with the sensors,im running it on 98 octain.thanks
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 06:43:14 PM by t-rev »

colcol

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4064
  • AROCA Member #: 1201
Re: 156 jts mcsf["bugga"]
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2013, 08:15:39 PM »
If your car has done up to or over 100,000klms, then you had better think about replacing the FOUR Lambda's, they all live in the same exhaust pipe, and get dirty and as worn out as one another, don't replace 2, as then next week the other 2 will stuff up and send the dreaded 'MCSF'.
If the car starts running good again the cat may clean itself up, as the mixture will be back to where it should be, also thermostats are a consumables on these JTS and Twin Spark Motors, that will cause mixture problems and the engine won't warm up, if you need to buy 4 Lambda's, do a bit of research and emailing, as good savings can be made with a bit of researching, Colin.
1974 VW Passat [ist car] 1984 Alfa 33TI [daily driver] 2002 Alfa 156 JTS [daily driver]

Davidm1600

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1181
Re: 156 jts mcsf["bugga"]
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2013, 11:50:04 PM »
i with you on this one Col, replace the Lambdas as your first port of call.  My car has 123Km on the clock and I have done all 4.  My car now runs perfectly fine.   EB Spares definitely can supply cheaper than here in Aus, and even with the postage.  As previously mentioned once ordered it should take no more than a week to arrive.  If your cats are fried (and hopefully not of the KFC variety), I don't think it would be a good idea to be driving with them in that condition for too long. But hey think positive that it wont be them.

Glad to hear you weren't charged to put your car onto the analyser, it is a job which only takes a few minutes, and so they really shouldn't charge for this sort of thing.

I also agree  with Col, in that if your car's temp is running on the low side at all it should mean that the thermostat is stuffed so replace it also.  98 ron fuel is perfectly fine for the JTS. I actually have mostly used 95 and don't have any issues with this. 

As mentioned coil packs and an old battery and poor electrical contacts can also lead to triggering erratic engine performance, but probably not the engine management failure message ??
Current:
2003 JTS 156 sportwagon
1969 Giulia sedan (x2)
1969 AC Fiat 124 sport

Past: '76 Alfetta 1.8 GT 
        '76 Alfetta 1.8 Sedan
        ' 73 2L Berlina

t-rev

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 54
Re: 156 jts mcsf["bugga"]
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2013, 08:21:58 PM »
Hi,it's 600 ks on and the mcsf light hasn't come back on so im' hoping that it was just bad connections that were the problem.Since i'v had the car it's only done country km's so that may have blown out some carbon because it seems to have a bit more grunt,although i still need to get a proper scan i think.

colcol

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4064
  • AROCA Member #: 1201
Re: 156 jts mcsf["bugga"]
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2013, 08:37:35 PM »
t-rev, how many klms has your JTS done?, could be time for new Lambda sensors, Colin.
1974 VW Passat [ist car] 1984 Alfa 33TI [daily driver] 2002 Alfa 156 JTS [daily driver]

t-rev

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 54
Re: 156 jts mcsf["bugga"]
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2013, 09:27:48 PM »
it's up to 80k,
« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 09:44:01 PM by t-rev »

Roy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: 156 jts mcsf["bugga"]
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2013, 08:33:36 AM »
Hi guys,

since a month and a half I am the owner of a 156 jts sports wagon (2005).  As I read on this forum it looks like I have the same Lambda problem. What's the best place to go in southern Tasmania to have the car checked and the job done.

Cheers,

Roy