Hi folks,
I've been having a little difficulty tracking down plugs for my 75 TS engine - mainly because I need the older style where you can unscrew the cap on the top and use the threaded rod connection instead. I wondered if anyone else has run into this and found a plug manufacturer that hasn't done away with the removable caps ? All the NGK units now have solid caps it seems.
While the engine did come with leads to suit the threaded rod plugs - I realise new leads could normally be sourced to suit the later caps - however the TS is in my Super - and the plugs need to be the threaded rod type to suit the Coil-On-Plug units I'm using.
Yes - I may be needlessly complicating things for myself. It would not be the first time :)
Just thought I'd throw it out there in case all the same...
The COP units are Denso (from a GSXR) - who do list a plug to suit the 75 TS in their catalogue - so I might start there. Or I might just turn the caps on a set of BP6E's down on the lathe...
Cheers,
I think (hope - its been a year or so since I bought some, can't remember if it was from Burson's or Repco) you can still get NGKs with the removable terminal nut *but* you won't find them in the bubble pack retail displays... On the boxes of 10 they come in when bought over the counter there is a pic that shows which type of terminal it has but I don't think it is part of the part number???? Worth checking at your local parts place and/or a call to NGK.
hi
ive still got original leads and am encountering the same limited choices,
currently using the bosches which have the caps that unscrew
joe
Hey Scott,
The Denso bloke (bloke who deals with Denso) sits next to me at work, Ill see if what info we can find. He also has the Denso catalogue which I remember did have a listing for the 75 TS as I used to refer to it for mine. It also has a cross reference from memory as well.
Ironically the Bosch bloke (bloke who deals with Bosch) sits behind me ;) I'll enquire there as well.
Stay tuned
Cheers
Pep
Quote from: pep105 on September 11, 2012, 09:18:44 PM
The Denso bloke (bloke who deals with Denso) sits next to me at work
Ironically the Bosch bloke (bloke who deals with Bosch) sits behind me
Bahaaha! That is gold!
Pep, what are you? The NGK bloke?! ;D
Ha Ha
I wish Shiny ! ;D Cheap spark plugs for the fetta and the 105 :(
I used to be those blokes now I just sit between them !
Very useful info folks - I really appreciate it ! I'll let you know what I find !
Cheers,
Hey Pep. Now I get it why you're so sharp. You're full time bright spark sandwich...hehee
Aiken-Bosch sell 'em. I use this type in my race car. Bosch heat range range goes in the oppsite direction to NGK.
The NGK B7ES and B8ES I bought from supercheap a couple of months ago all have removable caps.
They were individually boxed, not the multi-packs.
festy,
Are these heat range plugs in the smaller version required for the TS engine or just the regular plugs?
Thanks Festy - the BP (smaller hex size) 6E, BPR6E and similar I tried at Autobarn and Repco were the individually boxed ones. Lad at autobarn reckoned they still had removable caps in the older stock they were clearing out - just not the size I wanted. Wingnut at Repco started waxing lyrical about how only lawnmower plugs had threaded tops on them... and same result with the boxed NGKs...
be interesting to see what Pep's NGK mate has to say - might clear it up. Definitely no distinguishing part number in NGK to say which it has..
Might give Super Cheap a go and see if they have any of the rod style.
A few people have mentioned that the Bosch 4 post plugs are still all the rod style...
Curioser and Curioser !
Bosch plugs suitable for the TS engine requiring a 16mm socket are:-
FR5DC -Standard
FR5DP-Premium
These might be little too cold for a street engine and you could try the next warmer type which is one number higher, ie.
FR6DC
Thanks MD I've been called worse more like couple of sandwiches short of......
Here is what I have so far, bit of a disclaimer is that our Denso catalogue is old(ish) however
plugs are still listed, also need to confirm if they have threaded rod caps which pretty sure they do.
Just to clarify heat range, below is a list of heat ranges for major brands of standard plugs
MD is full of good info as usual - Bosch and NGK heat range numbers are arse about
Denso NGK Champion Bosch
9 2 18 10
14 4 16, 14 9
16 5 12, 11 8
20 6 10, 9 7,6
22 7 8, 7 5
24 8 6, 63, 61 4
27 9 4, 59 3
29 9.5 57
31 10 55 2
32 10.5 53
34 11
35 11.5
OK for 75 TS (Plug Gap 0.8mm)
Standard Plug Iridium Power
K20PBR IK20 where K = 16mm Hex size and 14mm thread diameter.
Iridium power has a smaller electrode (0.4mm) compared to the standard plug (approx 0.7mm)
Claim is the finer the electrode the stronger the spark.
Now Toyota dealers are the distributors for Denso spark plugs as listed on the Denso website.
What this means is if you require Denso (???) spark plugs for your 1974 Lamborghini Jarama 400GT 2+2
and hustle into a Toyota dealer and request it, they should be able to source it for you, even if that plug type isn't used on a
Toyota.
Eg IK20 should be in stock as it's used on Toyota's whereas K20PBR is not a stock item. AFAIK.
Also I don't know how good Denso plugs are, typically had experience with NGK and Bosch to a lesser extent, although haven't heard bad things about Denso.
Will have some more info on Bosch from the other dude later
Hope this helps
Cheers
Pep
Thanks again for the info Pep !
Well - the Toyota dealers want $18 each for the Denso IK20 - but I've found some on fleabay for about 12 - so might give those a try - the seller confirmed they have the removable tops.
Hey mate sent you a PM
Cheers Pep
Has anyone tried the FR6DC plugs in the TS? I am currently running the FR5DC and am curious after MD's comment about them being possibly too cold. My 75 sees a lot of city traffic as a daily driver. I haven't noticed any real problems as yet but if the 6 might run better I'd consider swapping them.
The FR5DC makes a cold engine more likely to misfire, take longer to warm up and a tendency to be sluggish until it comes to full temp. To get hot enough it likes to see a lot of 6K rpms and once there, the engine runs well and clean.
A warmer plug will make the engine behave much better sooner and run more consistent (Unless it sees a lot of 6k rpm every gear change in which case you need the 5's :) - essentially track work)
I'm running the 5s for everyday and track. Always goes well.
The French made Beru plugs turned up - they're not platinum obviously :)
The Denso plugs arrived - these are Iridium with a v-grooved lateral electrode.
also a pic of the COP units
Cheers,
Scott, please give us your thoughts as to which plug runs better and for what usage (fast road, city traffic etc).
Also, what does COP mean? Clip-on plug?
Thanks
Julian
Once I get the Coil On Plug units wired up, and stop playing with the tuning maps I might try running each type for a week and see how they look afterwards. I expect I won't feel a difference between any of them performance wise :) The engine was recently rebuilt, runs clean, and the fuelling is pretty well controlled by the MegaSquirt - so fouling / cold starting (which often can be the deciding factor on a plug) shouldn't be too big a deal.
So the COP units remove the need for High Tension leads all over the engine bay - you end up with a COP on top of each plug (8 for the TS) and a small low voltage wiring loom running between them all to power them. Main benefit is removing the HT leads, and a slightly tidier install. Don't expect a real performance benefit from the COP either :)
How tall are the COPs fitted, short enough to get under the middle blanking plate?
I remember find some ody who was using some VAG Polo I think ones, however they we're pretty tall.
I think the Denso 4150 COPs can be squeezed under the plate - I'll find out shortly :) I wasn't planning to run with the cover plate - but the COP units need some form of support at the top - sqooshing em in with that plate might be just the ticket. (but then you can't see them.... ;) )
Hi all, I have the original golden lodges for sale if anyone wants to purchase, not asking the earth, just a fair price, pm me please if interested, TA
A little update on this - for those who were interested here's a couple of pics of the Denso 4150 COPs fitted - they are about 5mm too high to allow the cover plate to screw down tight - but I think you could space the cover plate up on its screws and it would look fine if you wanted to. You can see from the side pic that they sit pretty much level with the top of the camshaft cover.
Personally think it looks better with them exposed :)
Haven't actually run the car on the COPS yet - this was just to get the measurements right for the loom I had to make - hope to get them running this weekend. I have been running the Denso plugs though (on the wasted spark coilpacks) and haven't had any issues with starting or any perceived performance difference compared to the NGK Iridiums - and the plug colour is good (probably more due to the finer mixture control of the MS ECU + Wideband O2 sensor than the plugs)
Cheers,
In case you're interested in the (open air) spark pattern of those Beru plugs, I hooked them up last night while testing the COP setup. Interesting to see it using all four of the tangs - I always thought that manufacturing tolerances would have one just a smidge closer that would catch all the spark until it wore down a little.....