Suspect 90
I was driving up High St Northcote today (in a Tram of course) and I noticed a rather suspicious looking Alfa 90 on the side of the Road with the Bonnet up. There were two people peering under the Bonnet.
A broken down Alfa 90 is not a rare sight but what got my attention was the white Background on the Door with Team Troffeo on it.
I wonder who might own this Car and what was the problem.
Rob Dale
So Sheldon, any ideas? (i'm only asking you as the leader of the 90 cult)
I think there are 90 owners out there paying respect to their leader by replicating his car.
He is "the leader"...
I don't think it was broken down, I'm sure it was just some tweaking going on to hone Sheldon's amazing regularity skills. Must have been adjusting brake bias, tyre pressures, sway bars, ride height, active suspension settings - that kind of thing.
A pro like Sheldon wouldn't just break down on a hot day, surely... :P
NB: Photo is an example of the Alfa 90 active suspension setup in action. it's very active!
Yeah Evan, that sounds more like it....I must admit when the implied suggestion was there that Ironsides had broken down I was sceptical...this is a must more plausible explanation...possibly adjusting ground effects (the "active" front spoiler), damper rates - for bump and rebound, roll centre height (2 clicks rear), probably some engine management adjustments to cater for the air density given height above sea level....and so on.
Quote from: Robert. Dale on November 19, 2007, 10:55:48 PM
what got my attention was the white Background on the Door with Team Troffeo on it.
Can't have been me, mine says "Team Trofeo"
If I had been going down High st though, the tram tracks are pretty rough down there (slow down Rob), I may have adjusted my front camber to compensate.
Damn, no secrets in this club is there? Okay, it's out now, I'm building an army of clones to help me attack Phillip Island in December. They're out there people, you have been warned.
But seriously..........It's all Gina's fault, she made me stop.
It's the first time Ironsides has left me stranded in over three years, not too bad for an old piece of c..p, and it's a self-imposed problem I believe. Just unfortunate that it had to be in 37 degrees, while Gina and I were dressed up and on the way to a funeral.
Ironsides has only started doing this since I installed the surge tank, and she only does it when the ambient and engine temperature is very high. It first started on the Saturday at the 6 hour, when it was about 32? from memory.
Starts first time no problem, and runs just fine, but if she's turned off while still hot, she won't start again unless left to cool down in the shade for a while.
To install the surge tank I installed an extra fuel pump taking fuel to the top of the surge tank, then it runs from the surge tank to the standard pump. Run off from engine back to surge tank, then from surge tank back to fuel tank...........pretty sure I got the pipes in the right order. Runs just fine if temp isn't too high, and if she isn't turned off in high temps.
Any ideas anyone?
I left her for a while but she still wouldn't start, she's never had a problem starting first time, doesn't ever need any throttle.
The RACV guy thought maybe it's either rich mixture or possibly too much fuel pressure. I had to get them out cos I flattened the battery trying to get her started. He held the throttle down and it started eventually with a jump.
Any thoughts gratefully welcomed.
I called RACV and said "I'd like to renew my membership". The bloke said "why, have you broken down?...." Apparently that's quite common.
Quote from: Robert. Dale on November 19, 2007, 10:55:48 PM
A broken down Alfa 90 is not a rare sight
Bulldust. Never seen one.
Thanks for stopping your tram in the middle of High St and helping me out by the way. ;) ;)
It's what a fellow club member would do, can't have had too many inconvenienced passengers on board?
You may have to remove the "Alfasud" sticker off the back of your shamed car now Sheldon. No Alfasud would ever break down... far too simple and robust.
Hey sheldon, I would recommend running the return line from your fuel rail straight back to the main tank rather than to surge tank then the main tank. If I understand you correctly the way you have it set up at the moment you can have some of the same fuel circulating from the engine to the surge tank and back to the engine again, getting hotter and hotter every time it does a lap until eventually you get vapour lock in the fuel rail, its just a thought, but we used to get a similar problem on hot days with the FI on the FSAE cars which had a tiny little fuel tank (6L)
Too much front wing...
Quote from: Colin Byrne on November 20, 2007, 05:05:23 PM
Hey sheldon, I would recommend running the return line from your fuel rail straight back to the main tank rather than to surge tank then the main tank. If I understand you correctly the way you have it set up at the moment you can have some of the same fuel circulating from the engine to the surge tank and back to the engine again, getting hotter and hotter every time it does a lap until eventually you get vapour lock in the fuel rail, its just a thought, but we used to get a similar problem on hot days with the FI on the FSAE cars which had a tiny little fuel tank (6L)
Thanks mate, for a sensible comment. Not looking at anyone in particular, Evan and Scott.
Something to look at. Pretty sure I need a line back from the surge tank to the main though.
The return line comes in about an inch from the top of the surge tank, and the line back to the tank about an inch further down from that. We put in a restrictor on the line going back to the main tank (I think)
See you at Brunos on Friday then, I've got to get this sorted before PI, it may be quite warm down there.
Any chance of a quick explanation of "vapour lock"?
No problems...glad to help.
The way I understand it is as the fuel continues heats up it eventually changes from liquid to gas. The fuel pump is designed to pump liquid not gas so when it gets a gulp of the fuel vapour the pressure in the system drops, with no pressure behind them the injectors cannot operate correctly, and then your left with a 90 stuck on the side of the road
Once the vapour rubbish is sorted, the next major modification you need to do to the 90 given the lean angles of ironsides is fit the below. One to each door should do the trick.
QuoteThe fuel pump is designed to pump liquid not gas so when it gets a gulp of the fuel vapour the pressure in the system drops
Just to add to this, the reason the pressure drops is because gas is infinitely more compressible than liquid. Same reason why water in the cylinders is bad - its to all useful intents and purposes incompressible, but the air and fuel vapour which normally enters is very much compressible.
Sorry Sheldon,
I actually did think of stopping for a fraction of a second but it is hard to park a 23 Mtr long Tram in the middle of High St Westgath without creating attention or causing much aggro.
In regards to your Vapor Lock Std V6's tend to have this problem in very hot conditions upon restarting and I'm sure you have aggrivated the problem with your Surge Tank.
If you follow Colin's advice I'm sure you will fix the problem or at least minimise it.
By the way Sheldon I know we give you a Hard Time about Ironsides but congratulations for your fine drive at the 6 Hr.
Considering the soft suspension and the amount of Body Roll on that Beast it was a fine Drive.
Rob Dale