Alfa Romeo Owners Club of Australia Forum

Technical => 160 Series (90, 75, 164 Sedans) => Topic started by: Duk on May 27, 2011, 08:09:52 PM

Title: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on May 27, 2011, 08:09:52 PM
Initially I was going to go the NA route for increased Alfa speed. Ported heads, custom made inlet manifold and possibly cams and extra compression. But when I tripped over a Vortech V5 F trim (off of a TRD enhanced Toyota Scion) on Ebay for good dollars, the boost fiend had his way, again.
Just for the record, I love Greg Gordon's work, and a positive displacement supercharger is probably the better choice of the 2, but I couldn't justify spending that sort of money (Not that Greg's kit is over priced, far from it!) on the car.
So a couple of photos that show the mount prototype work.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: shiny_car on May 27, 2011, 08:19:58 PM
This'll be interesting!  8)
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: MD on May 28, 2011, 08:08:30 AM
I look forward to seeing your bonnet...
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on May 28, 2011, 08:36:11 AM
I look forward to seeing your bonnet...

The bonnet closes and there is about 25mm clearance to it. Having said that, I still think I'll need to restrain the torque reaction of the engine. So either similar mounts to what you used on the Brick or I'll add a torque arm to the lifting point of the passenger side head.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: ARQ164 Shane on May 28, 2011, 08:39:26 AM
you are a brave man .I have Greg book on supercharging if that helps.
 are you going to run the Power steering?
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on May 28, 2011, 09:07:45 AM
you are a brave man .I have Greg book on supercharging if that helps.
 are you going to run the Power steering?

I'm not sure why you think I'm brave?
Yep, I got Greg's book when it was released, awesome read.
I will be running power steering. Intending to have 6* of positive caster with 225 wide tyres on 8" rims (when I can find something I like), will get pretty weighty in car parks and the like.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: BradGTV on May 28, 2011, 09:12:30 AM
awesome  8)
any power figure you will aiming for?
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on May 28, 2011, 09:36:05 AM
awesome  8)
any power figure you will aiming for?

Yes and no. I think 300 engine horse power is very real, but I won't be chasing a specific number. I'm more interested in getting some boost into it and keeping it in 1 piece. The biggest concern is the potential for valve float with some extra boost behind the inlet valves.

Other planned additions are:
A water to air intercooler (I'd prefer an air to air intercooler, but getting the 2.5" plumbing to and from it without cutting holes in the car ain't gunna happen with a bigger radiator).

Bigger injectors. I'm eying off some Nissan RB20det injectors at the moment.

I'm sticking with the VL Commondore (Nissan) engine management system the will have the Nistune real time tuning interface. Though because these older Nissan EC don't use a TPS based acceleration enrichment, they apparently work better with the AFM set up as a blow through arrangement when people start adding volume (like intercoolers and associated plumbing) between the turbo (on a VL Turbo) and the throttle body. I think I'll apply the same approach here. It will give me more pre-supercharger room, too.

Water injection.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: ARQ164 Shane on May 28, 2011, 04:34:45 PM
 :) ;) :D ;D nice round number "300"  ::)
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Storm_X on May 29, 2011, 07:34:04 PM
whats the plans for the car duck ?
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on May 29, 2011, 10:05:12 PM
Regular road usage  ;D
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on June 24, 2011, 03:09:11 PM
A bracket that could actually do the job  8) I still need to sort out drive pulleys and some form of belt tensioner though, so this bracket may require extra work or a complete remake. Notice the power steering pump bracket is modified so that it doesn't have the step anymore. The SC bracket and some shim washers take the place of the 2 original 12.5mm spacers, but it uses all 3 of the power steering pump mounting points, so the bracket is modified to suit.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: ARQ164 Shane on June 24, 2011, 06:09:37 PM
O.G speed shop 08 8261 7700  should have one for a TRD supercharger or I.&A. Engineers 8346 2981 croydon park
 could make one to suit .
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on June 24, 2011, 06:20:47 PM
Cheers Alphie  ;). Fitter and machinist by trade, so actually making the stuff (guess who made the bracket  ;D) isn't a major issue. Finding the time and desire (on night shifts) is, though.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Sheldon McIntosh on June 25, 2011, 12:51:14 AM
Very interesting.  Please keep us updated as you go.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on June 28, 2011, 04:05:09 PM
Some other work that I'm doing. This is requiring a lot more effort than I 1st thought it would:
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: ARQ164 Shane on June 28, 2011, 05:35:39 PM
what that a patton for ? have you started on exhaust for the heads
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on June 28, 2011, 06:00:42 PM
That is the lower section for the passenger side. No, I haven't started the head sections yet, I'll make the drivers side lower section 1st, then I'll attack the (should be much easier  ::) ) head pieces.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Storm_X on June 28, 2011, 08:34:21 PM
that exhaust looks so ghetto i love it.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: ARQ164 Shane on June 29, 2011, 08:41:36 PM
CooL  :) ;) :D ;D
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on August 18, 2011, 01:46:54 PM
Progress has been a little slow in the last month and a bit due to other commitments, but some has still been made. I've machined the pulley for the harmonic ballancer, the rectangular block next to the plenum chamber is an inline water to air intercooler and due to the location of the crank pulley, I've moved the supercharger's drive hub outwards (I'm still to add an extra internal support bearing to the hub).
I still need to machine the supercharger pulley, add a belt tensioner to the the supercharger mount plate, make oil feed and drain lines, mount the water to air intercooler's radiator, etc, etc........... Still plenty of work to do.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: shiny_car on August 18, 2011, 03:04:05 PM
It's great you've got the skills and machinery to perform such mods to that standard. Impressive.

Always good to see some progress, no matter how small.

I'd like to see the 'TRD' badge removed in the future. ;)

:)
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on August 18, 2011, 03:38:30 PM
It's great you've got the skills and machinery to perform such mods to that standard. Impressive.

Always good to see some progress, no matter how small.

I'd like to see the 'TRD' badge removed in the future. ;)

:)

Cheers  ;D. I actually became a Fitter and Machinist instead of say a Mechanic or an Electrician, 'cause I'm a petrol head.
It'd be great if I had my own lathe and milling machine, but I don't......

As for the TRD label, I'll deal with those when all of the important stuff is done. Maybe some sort of Alfa Romeo label could be nailed (they are a twisted helix metal nail) on in its place to look all official  8)
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Storm_X on August 19, 2011, 11:54:02 PM
that's the exact same intercooler as what i have
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on August 20, 2011, 12:44:47 PM
that's the exact same intercooler as what i have

Sounds to me like you should also be starting an 'in the build' thread so we can see your progress as well  8)
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Storm_X on August 22, 2011, 05:46:27 PM
not much has happend. the motor is pretty much built. now i need to start on the body. plus i have a few plans for my daily once i go on holidays over the new year BUSY BUSY BUSY.


Also with the intercooler have you tried to screw any hose fittings into the water in/outlet threads yet ?? everything ive tried just gets striped, even the fittings that came with the cooler and i orderd more from some where else and still the same problem. I think the thread shrank when they welded it.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on August 22, 2011, 09:00:44 PM
Also with the intercooler have you tried to screw any hose fittings into the water in/outlet threads yet ?? everything ive tried just gets striped, even the fittings that came with the cooler and i orderd more from some where else and still the same problem. I think the thread shrank when they welded it.

No I haven't but thanks for the heads up. I'll check the thread an I'll let you know how I go.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: ARQ164 Shane on August 22, 2011, 10:23:43 PM
http://www.blshipway.com.au/

these guys have all types of fitting .
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on August 25, 2011, 06:44:43 PM
Had a bit of a laugh at myself the other day. I actually had the cam belt pulley/sprocket on the crankshaft the wrong way around and so the harmonic balancer wasn't sliding onto the crank properly. So when I lined up the supercharger drive pulley on the crank, I thought I was going to have to have the supercharger's pulley a long way forward. When I put the harmonic balancer on properly, I actually had to machine a heap of metal from the the superchargers drive snout and definitely won't be needing the extra support bearing. That bearing was going to limit SC input speed to 14000rpm and that might not have been enough  ;).

Live and learn  ;D.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: MD on August 25, 2011, 07:23:45 PM
You're a good lad for confessing your goof ups so now go and sink three ales for your penance and sleep it off.. ;D

SuperMech never makes any foul ups but his get up leaves a lot to be desired-you know, Y fronts on the outside of his tight trousers, long cape at the back flowing in the breeze. Welding goggles on 24/7. He is a real sight to see under a hoist.

..now aren't you glad you are just a mere mortal ?

Stay sane fella. Me, I'm changing my medication and after posting this, my address..
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: ARQ164 Shane on August 25, 2011, 09:03:21 PM
Duk this should make you feel better :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBiT90eXW0Y&NR=1&feature=fvwp

 I like the bloke on the esclator . ;D
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on August 26, 2011, 04:14:36 PM
Duk this should make you feel better :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBiT90eXW0Y&NR=1&feature=fvwp

 I like the bloke on the esclator . ;D

We've all had days like that guy  :P. Silly choice followed by lots of hard work that wore you out and then return to where you started  ::)
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on November 03, 2011, 08:00:10 PM
Thought I'd add here, even though nothing much has happened.
I decided to scrap the Nissan ECU part of the project and go with an Adaptronic E420c (superseded by the E420d), for a few reasons.

1: The airflow meter is the input for acceleration enrichment in the early Nissan system. Obviously it works but the whole system become rather sensitive to plumbing volume. This can be gotten around by putting the AFM after the supercharger and intercooler. The problem is that any contaminants from the crank case ventilation system (that will vent into the superchargers inlet) will eventually foul the sensing element in the AFM.

2: There is no inlet air temperature correction for ignition timing. The hot wire AFM compensates very well for changing ambient temperature, but what I want is to be able to influence ignition timing as a direct result on inlet air temperatures. Part of keeping this engine alive will be by having absolute control of ignition timing in ANY condition. 1 of those nasty conditions is a heat soaked intercooler. The Adaptronic has a nice inlet air temp compensation map that allows just such a situation to be dealt with.

3: 5 miles of high tension ignition leads can easily be abolished! Best price I found for a decent set of HT leads for the V6 was about $350! $450 for the 'better again' set! Not only that, but the work load will be spread over 6 ignition coils instead of 1 that has losses through the distributor and the leads, but it will also make the engine bay much neater and allow some extra room once the distributor is gone (the Nissan dizzy was even boofier than the Alfa dizzy). I was actually nutting out a plan to make the Nissan installation coil on plug, but there was no guarantee that it would have worked.

4: Dual maps! The tuning approach I have planned has always had dual maps intended, 1 for water injection (wet map) and 1 without (dry map).
The approach being that I can have a safe, but still quite powerful 'dry map' but also a more powerful, via the extra knock resistance of water injection, 'wet map'. The difference between the 2 maps will probably be purely on boost ignition timing (more advanced) and won't be trying to show a cooler inlet air temperature via the IAT sensor, the water will be injected AFTER the IAT sensor.
I did have a plan for this with the Nissan set up, but it just added costs and complexity.

5: Water Injection. The Adaptronic has 3 pulse width modulated, 3 amp capable auxiliary outputs (8 configurable in total but 4 have to drive a relay for decent loads and aren't PWM capable) that can be configured to work as a function of all sorts of things.
For water injection, the best approach is to shoot for a water to fuel ratio, rather than say, a boost pressure to water ratio. The PWM outputs can be set up to drive based on injector duty cycle. My water injection system will use the FJO Water Injection solenoid valve that is intended to be driven like a fuel injector (pulsed open and closed) rather than trying to control water delivery amount via changing the behavior of the pump (like some/most systems do).
Again, I had a plan for this, but again, it added cost and complexity (but was already paid for  :P).

6: Vehicle Speed Sensor. Most decent factory systems (notice that the Motronic system doesn't) use the vehicle speed sensor input to tell the ecu when to start applying idle speed control (amongst other things like speed limiters  ::) ). Whether or not the Nissan system would recognize the Alfa speedo sensors signal I have no idea. It was just 1 more negative, but could probably have been gotten around.

7: I scored 1 for a good price and already have some experience with them on my twincharged MR2.  8)

Even though I am (sort of, I was going to be a first as far as I can tell :P) jumping ship, I still believe that for a relatively standard engine (tided up ports, mildish cam, extractors), a factory system like the Nissan/VL Commondore system could work and work well, even compared to the  Motronic (poxy small AFM and near impossible to find interfacing) and especially compared to 'Ye Olde' L-Jetronic, for my set up I decided that it was not worth the trouble. By the time I buy all that I need for the real time interface (Nistune) for the Nissan ecu and the set up the dual maps. (That would require an EEPROM chip with twice the standard 128kb memory (no big deal), that was programmed (read: need an EEPROM programmer) and a switching system. These are available, but obviously at $'s) I had paid for my Adaptronic E420c.

I also looked at using a Delco ecu from a V6 Commondore, partly because they are already distibutorless system and the earlier (VN to VR) use a MAP sensor load sensing but also because real time tuning interface can be achieved for about half that of the Nistune interface.
What put me off was their ignition system having a specific ignition module (part of the GM/Delco DIS system. The Nissan uses a 'dumb' module) that may not like a non GM coil on plug set up (a mate had 'fun' with Common#%ore's ignition module and it scared me  :-[). And again, the vehicle speed sensor interface.

Current plan is to get the Adaptronic set up with a decent tune (mainly road tuning), but without the supercharger. That will let me see where I'm at and allow a good comparison between NA and blo...... I mean, force fed  ;).

Wow, long post!  ;)
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: shiny_car on November 04, 2011, 01:33:40 PM
Complex, but makes sense at the same time! You still have your work cut out for yourself, but all part of the challenge.

Thanks for the update.

:)
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on November 16, 2011, 03:14:32 PM
1 thing to note about doing projects like these is that the costs always add up quickly! I'm adding here to help any other aspiring project doers to understand real world project costs of 'just' doing a good quality installation of a new engine management system.
Note that I will be doing the installation myself. Paying for a good quality installation would add many dollars to the project costs.

Second hand Adaptronic E420c: $600
2 metre wiring loom: $111
2 Bar MAP sensor: $74

*Hall Effect sensor: $34US
*Coolant temp sensor: $16.25US
*Inlet air temp sensor: $20US
*Ignition module: $89US
*Plug and pin pack: $87.95US
*Pin crimping tool for above: $108US
*Wide band AFR sensor/controller (no gauge): $199US
*6 Bosch injector plugs: $34.50US
*Freight for above from DIYAutotune: $75.25

2 x pack of 4 Denso ignition coil plug kits: $65.48
8 x second hand 2008 Yamaha R6 ignition coils: $120.

With rounding of the US dollars straight to Aussie dollars (the difference is SFA), total costs for the engine management system and all of the bits and pieces is $1644.43, so far. There will be extra costs for the throttle position sensor and things like relays and any additional wire that I'll need, but I think I'm pretty much paid for in terms of installing the Adaptronic.
For a 'from scratch' installation of a programmable engine management system that converts to 6 individual ignition coils, has wide band AFR sensor input and a specialized crimping tool to suit the weather resistant plugs to ensure a top quality installation, I'm quite pleased with the above numbers.
Obviously I've bought some second hand parts to keep costs down and there is always a risk with that, but the computer just came back from Adaptronic via the previous owner after repairs (under warranty) to 1 of the auxiliary outputs. The biggest question mark will be the R6 coils. Firstly I don't know if they will even fit decently, but more importantly, most bike coils are to be used with CDI ignition systems and CDI coils can't be used with transistor switched ignition systems (they die very quickly from what I've read). I did find some info on the net that said that 2007 onwards R6's used transistor switched ignition systems, but that guarantees very little. We'll see.

Wiring largely from scratch like I will, should be a blessing with the Alfa. Firstly there will be all new plugs for every thing (no more brittle old Bosch plugs) This will allow me to make sub-looms for things like the ignition wiring and injector wiring. Secondly, all of those plugs will be attached directly to the new loom (with my million dollar crimping tool  :P), this saves cutting, baring some wire, tinning, slipping on some heat shrink, soldering and shrinking each and every connection (trust me, that adds a lot of time and frustration to the job!). And thirdly, with a few minor exceptions, only 1 wiring diagram to follow and figure out! When I did the Adaptronic into my MR2, it took me days to do the job and a lot of that time was figuring out how to connect the Adaptronic to the Toyota wiring looms. Imagine paying an Auto Sparky to figure out the 2 wiring diagrams and do the wiring connections.........  :o
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Sheldon McIntosh on November 17, 2011, 03:33:12 PM
Thanks Duk, excellent info as always.

I'm intrigued by the new crimping tool, can you post a link or pic?

Keep up the info please, always good to read info from the brave and stupid experts.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on November 17, 2011, 03:45:39 PM
I'm intrigued by the new crimping tool, can you post a link or pic?

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/ratcheting-crimper-for-weather-pack-connectors-1420-gauge-p-365.html?osCsid=2848214a220b7c44a37b3170b16626ae its for the pins in the plugs that http://www.diyautotune.com/ sell. From the pictures I've seen, they look a lot like the weather resistant plugs that Narva sell here in Oz. When my bits and pieces get here I'll compare the 2 and see.

Keep up the info please, always good to read info from the brave and stupid experts.
Brave? No. Stupid? Yes. Expert? Only in stupidity  :P
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: MD on November 17, 2011, 04:22:45 PM
Hey Duk stop laying claim to stupidy. I wrote at least three chapters in that book. Keeping it to ECU's I thought I would score a bargain by buying a Haltec Platinum Sports 1000 from the US which I did buy. All seemed fine until Mr Customs contacted me to say your purchase is over a thousand bucks and so you owe us import duty !! Now that's stupidity of the first order cause I knew about the criteria but since I developed K.R.A.F.T. in my old age, I forgot didn't I.

It's too tough to be perfect. :D
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on November 17, 2011, 07:03:36 PM
MD, we are, all of us, always learning even better ways to perpetuate our own stupidity  ;D
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Sheldon McIntosh on November 17, 2011, 09:11:15 PM
Nice crimper.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Darryl on November 17, 2011, 10:29:19 PM
Interesting connectors - thanks Duk. That crimp and seal in one go feature is nice. Delphi parts? Does anyone with a recent oz GM product (or a 159? ducking for cover now...) know if these are found on them?

I've spent too much time assembling impossibly fiddly connectors to want to do it ever again (Lemo (http://www.lemo.com) connectors look really nice, and they are - so long as someone else assembled them! Having someone else to pay for them also helps :).

Re wiring looms etc - where do you buy, *wire* from? In particular a decent range of wire colours, and hopefully something suitable for automotive environment (heat/hydrocarbons/vibration) without going for full overkill (or being left wondering if that stuff from local auto shop is actually going to last). And of course, its nice not to have to buy 30m (or 100!) of each colour. Maybe the answer is the beer economy....
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: MD on November 18, 2011, 08:19:40 AM
Well Darryl I do have a simple solution for you. If you buy Haltec,(spotters fee from Haltec would be appreciated  :D) they provide a complete loom for every pin out and it all comes pre wired to all the plugs that connect to the ECU. The job that remains for you is to trim the loom to its various locations and add the correct termination to the nature of the signal source.

Easier than crapping in bed and kicking it out with your feet as the saying goes..
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Darryl on November 18, 2011, 06:12:08 PM
Thanks MD. At risk of threadjacking - I was interested for rewiring reasons rather than ECU loom reasons, just wondered if anyone had found a good one stop auto electrics parts shop...
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: MD on November 19, 2011, 10:03:09 AM
Darryl, PM sent.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on November 24, 2011, 08:56:52 PM
I got my order from DIYAutotune today  8). I love getting parts that I buy delivered, they're like presents  :D.
A quick look at the weather proof plugs has them looking exactly like the ones that Narva sell. The only difference is the price (+ freight  ;)).
The 4 channel ignition module (I'll only be using 3, waste spark ignition) is small! The box measures 69x49x35 with a flat aluminium heat sink about the same size an interior wall switch panel. It should be easy to find a home for it in the engine bay and is potted in epoxy resin so should be completely water proof. According to DIYAutotune it's made using Bosch ignition transistors which guys use with Megasquirt's.
I'll finish making my computer mount this weekend at work (my Jigsaw died) and then I'll finish making my under bonnet chassis brace. I want to use it to mount some of the original wiring and probably also the ignition module. Then I just need to figure out 1 plug that's part of the body wiring. I reckon it has the wiring for the coolant temperature, oil pressure gauge and switch, brake fluid switch and the fuel pump plug that was part of the engine's loom that I sold with the Motronic system. Once that's sorted, lots of wire running, cutting and crimping. But most of all, lots of DOUBLE CHECKING!  ;)
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on November 28, 2011, 06:48:56 PM
R6 Coils are a great fit in the V6 spark plug tubes, being the perfect length but will require an insert/bush at the top of tube because the coil is a bit to small (Spark plug tube about 33mm, coil 27mm) to locate properly and can move side ways a bit at the top. Even without the top insert/bush, the coils are nice snug fit on the spark plugs and should stay in place without any retaining device.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Storm_X on January 02, 2012, 11:47:16 AM
Any updates ?
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on January 03, 2012, 03:22:32 PM
Nothing post-worthy. I made some Nylon bushes to locate the top of the R6 coils but I've been spending time working on the rear brakes as my job position will be changing very soon so I need to get what ever machining I need to do completed while I can.

*I thought I might add that the crimping tool I bought to use with the weather proof plugs does an excellent job! It simultaneously crimps the pin to the wire and pin closes around the little sealing boot and clamps it tight against the wire too. All easy and consistent.*

**I thought I'd add another comment about the crimping tool. It is designed to hold the pin in a moving block, then you put the sealing boot over the wire's insulation and put the small amount (about 4-5mm) of bared wire inside the pin and crimp the whole thing together.
Technically it is designed for the weather proof plug's pins. But, if you remove the pin holding block, it will also do an excellent job of crimping the pins for Bosch injector plugs and also the Denso plug's pins. It's a bit fiddly, but much better than trying to use long nose pliers or the like, as the crimping tool rolls the tags that hold the wire rather than just folds them over and flattens them.**
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on February 21, 2012, 06:04:41 PM
Have been making a bit of progress. Heaps of little things to make and do, but it doesn't always look like you're going forward when you do a bit for 1 job, a bit for another and then a bit for yet another etc, etc........
So I thought I'd do a bit of dummy assembly to help me feel the progress.
Like MD, I'm using series 6 (FD3S) Mazda RX7 mags which are 16x8 with a plus 50mm offset. I'm still waiting on the adapters. Rubber on the tyres is good but to big (225/50/16), so I'll need to replace them with something like 225/45/16 or maybe even 215/45/16.
Oxy welding aluminium is pretty awful, but a grinder and some crinkle finish paint will fix that. Engine bay in these cars is pretty tight with the V6, with the Vortech hanging on the side and the water to air intercooler plus more hoses and plumbing.............  :o
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: BradGTV on February 21, 2012, 06:15:40 PM
looking good mate  ;)
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Storm_X on February 21, 2012, 07:18:56 PM
Your lucky that engine bay is loOking good, it beaks my heart to see the 75 so dirty. 

I can't wait till I sell my silvia so I will have some more cash to spend on my giulietta.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on February 21, 2012, 09:10:14 PM
I'm quite amazed that it all fits under the bonnet (I put the bonnet back on). I knew that it fitted, but when I put the bonnet back on, you can look in side the engine bay when the guards aren't on and see the top of the engine and see just how much room there still is. There's heaps of room above the back of the plenum chamber.

Next up will be my upper chassis bracing that will tie the left and right sides together at 4 points. I'll also use the chassis brace to brace the master cylinder/fire wall, that should dramatically reduce the amount of flex and give a much better feeling brake pedal.

Once the brace is done, I'll take the engine out (again) so I can take the flywheel off and send it to Pace Engineering for lightening and rebalancing along with the already lightened clutch flywheel.

I'll be real happy once the rear brakes are done and the clutch flywheel is back. Then I can put the transaxle back in the car along with the rear suspension. That'll be a big part completed.

There's still SO much to do  :o.
Especially since I need to overhaul the heads  :(.
Dealing with the cooling systems hasn't even started. I'll be using a bigger, modified VL Commodore radiator and also an air conditioner condenser from my old R32 Skyline half cut.
I'm 95% sure I'll use an electric oil pump and separate tank and oil cooler for the supercharger.
The water to air intercooler pump, plumbing and radiator still need to be dealt with.
I want to use a 5 litre VT V8 Commodore/Bosch 120amp alternator 'cause they can deliver 80ish amps when the engine is idling (depending on drive ratios of course).
Battery in the boot.
Water injection tank and plumbing.
I'm making smaller diameter, shorter primary extractors + a twin 2.25" exhaust that will join after the TA cross member into 3".
Bigger injectors.
Finish wiring up the Adaptronic..................
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: BradGTV on February 22, 2012, 07:16:58 AM
why the need to send ur flywheel interstate? it can be done locally for a good price..
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on February 22, 2012, 09:03:56 AM
why the need to send ur flywheel interstate? it can be done locally for a good price..

After seeing Scott Venables approach to lightening and balancing the offset weighted flywheel (a brilliant method), I wanted to make sure that who ever did the work knows how important the offset balance factor is with these engines, hence my requirements for someone like Vin Sharp to do the job.
The clutch flywheel isn't an issue, but I figured I'd just get Vin to balance it too.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on March 23, 2012, 07:26:00 PM
The engine bay brace. It incorporates a master cylinder brace too.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Storm_X on March 27, 2012, 06:46:07 PM
I noticed my s13 has a master brace as standard , I like the idea
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: scott.venables on March 27, 2012, 08:47:34 PM
Looking good Duk.  How are you going to attach the brace to the master cylinder?  Have you used special tube or just standard mild?  Are you modifying the engine loom for the new ECU or making a new one?

Keep it up,
Scott
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on March 27, 2012, 09:19:14 PM
Looking good Duk.  How are you going to attach the brace to the master cylinder?  Have you used special tube or just standard mild?  Are you modifying the engine loom for the new ECU or making a new one?

Keep it up,
Scott

The master cylinder brace will have a bolt that is adjusted so that the bolt head is snug against the master cylinder's end. It doesn't have any physical attachment to the master cylinder itself.
The pipe is just standard 1.6mm wall thickness exhaust pipe. The main hoop is 1 5/8" and the diagonal pieces are 1.5". It's plenty solid and I'm looking forward to how the whole thing feels when it's back on the road.
I put the supercharger and intercooler back on for another photo to show how congested it's getting in the engine bay.

The wiring loom is all new and started with an Adaptronic 2 metre loom plus some additional wire to make the sub-loom for the ignition coils and a sub-loom for the injectors (still have to get off my arse and finish that). The sensors will be plugged directly into the Adaptronic loom.
I was going to mount the various relays and fuses in the engine bay, but because I mounted the computer high up in the passenger's foot well, I'll mount a lot of the relays and fuses below the computer mainly because it was actually hard to find a nice neat place to mount them in the engine bay.

Nearly finished the driver's side, simpler extractors. Each pipe is 1.5" and is 500mm long plus or minus about 10-15mm. Semi-unfortunately I had to use spun donut for the rear cylinder to keep the 500mm length. Technically it shouldn't flow as well as the more open radius mandrel bends, but I wanted to keep the lengths as close as possible to 500mm.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on April 30, 2012, 09:54:23 PM
Well, due to the poor ol MR2 starting to show her age (a dead supercharger that leaks its gearbox oil into the inlet air stream and some other problem that is either a dud ignition coil or wiring, a cracked turbo manifold or dying cylinder), I've felt compelled to rush the Alfa along.
IE, I need some other wheels.

So I completed the driver's side extractors (had to modify the center pipe) and greatly shorten the collector. I then attacked the passenger's side........ At which point I chucked a tantrum and gave up  :P. Not quite that bad, but I did put that aside and simply refit the original manifolds.

Next step was to wire up the crank angle sensor so I could crank the engine (with the spark plugs out) so I could check on the Adaptronic that I wired the CAS correctly.
Although not complete, the wiring loom was plenty done to hook up the ECU and perform this test. So I plugged it in, flogged the battery out of the MR2, did some rudimentary wiring to hook it up and switched on the ignition!

Nothing!

I checked, double checked, triple checked and checked again.

Nothing.........

So I pulled the whole loom out of the car and put it on my desk along with the battery.
Long story short, I got the computer to switch on (I don't know what I did differently, though) but I f@#ked up by putting 12 volts directly into the auxiliary output that will drive the tacho (ignition on 12 volts and the tacho signal are in the same 2 pin plug I added to the body wiring loom). So I'll have to have that fixed.........  :-[
Strangely, the computer was switching on with 12 volts fed into the auxiliary output  ???

Oh well.
Tomorrow I'll put the wiring loom back in the car and test the wiring of the CAS.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Darryl on May 01, 2012, 07:53:02 AM
Strangely, the computer was switching on with 12 volts fed into the auxiliary output  ???

Hopefully/possibly it was being powered via a protection diode from aux out to +ve rail (to prevent aux going above 12v, assuming 12v is actually connected).
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: festy on May 01, 2012, 09:54:11 AM
Strangely, the computer was switching on with 12 volts fed into the auxiliary output  ???

Hopefully/possibly it was being powered via a protection diode from aux out to +ve rail (to prevent aux going above 12v, assuming 12v is actually connected).
+1 - I'd guess the output is something like an open collector driver with a back-emf diode (so the output can safely drive relays) - and that diode was feeding the power into the ECU because the "output" pin's voltage was higher than the (unconnected) power rail.
If that's the case, then there shouldn't be any damage done.

How confident are you that the 1.6mm exhaust pipe brace will be rigid/strong enough?
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on May 01, 2012, 11:12:51 AM
Strangely, the computer was switching on with 12 volts fed into the auxiliary output  ???

Hopefully/possibly it was being powered via a protection diode from aux out to +ve rail (to prevent aux going above 12v, assuming 12v is actually connected).
+1 - I'd guess the output is something like an open collector driver with a back-emf diode (so the output can safely drive relays) - and that diode was feeding the power into the ECU because the "output" pin's voltage was higher than the (unconnected) power rail.
If that's the case, then there shouldn't be any damage done.

Unfortunately they are switch to ground drivers.
I also posted my dilemma's on the Adaptronic forum and Andy, the head engineer from Adaptronic (a top bloke who is an absolute petrol head) replied this morning and said that it would have killed the output drive.
Oh well, I should be more observant.

How confident are you that the 1.6mm exhaust pipe brace will be rigid/strong enough?

Very!  8)
Remember that the brace is there to augment the chassis strength, rather than be the chassis.
Also, it's the diameter of the pipe that is the great giver of strength. Ideally there would be a straight piece of pipe from the driver's side damper/top control arm box section directly over to the passenger side A pillar and the same set up on the other side, but some clown put this big boofy engine in the way  :P
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on May 01, 2012, 02:03:38 PM
I finally got my big aluminium eBay radiator today.
It's originally for the VL onwards V8 Dunnydores and is quite huge compared to the original.
I had ordered 1 for a manual car because they don't have the built in trans cooler, but guess which 1 they sent. Given the issues with the freight company I had, I'll work with what I've got. The reason I wanted the manual radiator was so I could remove the lower outlet, blank the hole and cut another 1 further up and reweld the nipple onto the tank. But the lower outlet lines up well with the hole in the radiator support panel, so I'll just enlarge that hole and make a stainless adapter pipe. It'll be obvious when I get it done.
I will need to cut new lower locating holes in the radiator support panel and figure out a way to hold the top of the radiator to the body.
A simple blank cap will be used instead the cheap radiator cap that came with it. It will allow the coolant to be filled much more quickly, too.
The hose to the header tank will be pretty frigging long 'cause it's on the other side of the radiator.

I thought I might try and use the auto trans heat exchanger for cooling the power steering fluid. The fittings are pretty small though, so it would have to be pumped into the radiator straight from the pump rather than be in the return line for the reservoir.
I then thought that the heat exchanger wouldn't be designed with that sort of pressure in mind and chucked that idea in the bin  :P.

For the cooling fan, I'll cut the mounting arms off of the fan's frame and realign them to the top and bottom steel flanges that bolt to the radiator.

Anyway, I certainly expect there to be plenty of cooling capacity with this set up. I want to upgrade the air conditioner's condenser too, and I'll probably have to move the A/C dryer to in front of the radiator with the condenser. Getting it all to fit behind the grill and bumper bar could be interesting.

***I also finally got my new water pump from OKP today too. That took 4 weeks despite some pretty pricey freight. It seems to me that Potenziata water pumps are the proverbial rocking horse poo, because despite it being said to be a Potenziata pump on their website and on the packaging, it aint.............  ::)***
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Darryl on May 02, 2012, 12:40:28 PM
Strangely, the computer was switching on with 12 volts fed into the auxiliary output  ???

Hopefully/possibly it was being powered via a protection diode from aux out to +ve rail (to prevent aux going above 12v, assuming 12v is actually connected).
+1 - I'd guess the output is something like an open collector driver with a back-emf diode (so the output can safely drive relays) - and that diode was feeding the power into the ECU because the "output" pin's voltage was higher than the (unconnected) power rail.
If that's the case, then there shouldn't be any damage done.

Unfortunately they are switch to ground drivers.
I also posted my dilemma's on the Adaptronic forum and Andy, the head engineer from Adaptronic (a top bloke who is an absolute petrol head) replied this morning and said that it would have killed the output drive.
Oh well, I should be more observant.

Bugger - obviously he would know. Slightly strange/unlucky though (but I don't know the cct) - I expected it to be a switch to ground output - if it was and it had a protection/back-emf diode to 12v that would have been fine so long as the output didn't turn on... Maybe it did turn on...
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on May 02, 2012, 01:31:57 PM
Would a back EMF diode protect it though?
I think some form of current limiting would have protected it, but because the current flow is from the load, through the wire, through the transistor and then to earth, I don't think that a back EMF diode would have helped. Basically current flow was in the normal direction but because there was basically no resistance between the battery and the transistor, it would have easily been over loaded. Max resistive load is 7 amps (max inductive load is 3 amps).

Oh well, I can still do plenty of work with it. Andy said to send it back the Adaptronic for repairs and checks.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: festy on May 02, 2012, 02:43:34 PM
If the output isn't turned on, the transistor doesn't conduct so the current goes straight to the 12v rail via the diode.
If the transistor was conducting, then the current would go through the transistor to ground - but I'd assume there'd be some form of current limiting resistor to protect the transistor in normal use.

But if their engineer reckons it'd be toast, it must be some other kind of circuit...
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on May 02, 2012, 03:59:48 PM
Good point Festy! I'll do a bench test and set it up to do something different before I send it back to Adaptronic.

Anyway, some photos showing the nearly complete (but not quite) main loom and the sub looms for the ignition system and the injectors.
I've incorporated the power supply for the ignition system, water injector and the fuel injectors into the main loom and also allowed for current limiting resistors to be plugged into the loom. For the standard injectors the resisters won't be needed and the 2 plugs can be joined together, but because I plan to use Skyline GTR injectors that will be wired in parallel, it will be possible to reach the current limit of the injector drivers.

I still have to wire in the digital inputs for the computer as well as get a speedo sensor signal into the computer. Plus I need to make a small forth loom that the main loom will also plug into for the fuel pump and cooling fan relays. The forth loom will also have the inputs for the brake fluid reservoir level, the coolant temperature sensor for the gauge and I want to add a relay for the starter motor while I'm at it.

All in all, to do a reasonable backyard installation of a programmable computer, it's a fair amount of time consuming work if you want the whole thing to be reliable, reasonably well presented and well integrated into the rest of the car.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: shiny_car on May 02, 2012, 08:36:44 PM
They look beautiful and neat. I'm a big fan of quality wiring jobs that incorporate form and function.

:)
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on May 02, 2012, 09:42:09 PM
Cheers Shiny!

The main idea is for them to be reliable for a very long time. The idea of being strandard because I couldn't be bothered to do a decent job or used cheap bits and pieces, is a crap one. 1 nice thing about the V6 is that no wires need to go near the exhaust manifolds, so there is no chance of cooking anything.
It's amazing how long it has taken me  :o. I hate wiring at the best of times (Fitter and Machinist by trade), but I've allowed this 1 to drag out too long  ::).
It'd be nice to be able to easily take apart the 2 black plugs so I can remove unused wire from them. There will be 4 or 5 wires connected inside the car and after those are done, the other wires are surplus and I hate the idea of just chopping them off near the plug.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: scott.venables on May 02, 2012, 10:22:34 PM
How well does the engine loom separate from the rest of the car?  ie. How simple was it to make your engine loom without disturbing the chassis wiring?

I didn't quite follow your plan with the radiator, is it going in front of the radiator support panel instead of behind it?

Do you plan to finish your extractors?  Are they 1.5"OD or 1.625"?

Scott

edit: just remembered you've got a Potenziata, the wiring might be different?
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on May 02, 2012, 11:34:24 PM
Hey Scott,

To get the car to run, the wiring loom joins the car in 5 places. Later I'll add the digital inputs for things like the A/C on signal and speedo signal. These are there to help the Adaptronic deal with idle speed control.

1: The original ignition coil's switched power. This switches power on to run the computer and switches on the 2 relays for the fuel injectors and ignition coils. Relays and fuses are mounted on the same mount that holds the Adaptronic in place under the dash.

2: The Adaptronic's tacho output (an auxiliary output that switches a relay coil on and off to give the required electromagnetic signal that simulates the old ignition coil, for the Alfa's older style tacho) to the original tacho feed that originally attached to the ignition coil's negative terminal.

3: A high current power feed for the injectors, ignition coils and water injection solenoid valve is integrated into the main loom and connects to the power distribution point near the battery.

4: Sent from the main loom to the (yet to be completed) 4th loom, the signal to switch on the fuel pump's relay.

5: And also sent from the main loom to the (yet to be completed) 4th loom, the signal to switch on the radiator fan's relay.

There is also the ignition module which plugs into the main loom on 1 side and the ignition coil loom on the other side. And the current limiting resistor pack that has 3 50 watt resistors for the injectors and 1 for the water injection solenoid valve.

I cut the body loom for the original ignition coils power and the tacho signal wire and used a 2 pin plug there.
The worst part will be the 4th loom. I'll cut off the black 9 pin (only 6 pins actually in it) plug near the driver's side A pillar so I can use a new plug that I have the pins for.

I will finish the passenger side extractors 1 day. I stopped because I needed to focus on getting the car working again. I plan to get my hands on another engine and that will make it a lot easier to complete.
Pipe size is 1.5" 500mm long give or take about 25mm.

The radiator will sit in the car the same as standard. The radiator's support panel has 2 angle sheet metal attachments that have large diameter holes in them. The bottom radiator outlet will go though the passenger side sheet metal attachment with the hole and is about level with the anti-roll bar. I have to enlarge the hole and cut new holes in the radiator support panel.
My car had been in a bingle at some time in its life and the radiator support framework is distorted a bit, so I'm not overly fussed about drilling holes in it.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on May 04, 2012, 06:18:32 PM
Well I put a lot of the engine back together today with great aspirations of trying to start the thing. I checked the ignition coils worked. Temporarily wired the fuel pump to a switch and hit the starter.
Click! Hmmmm Click, click.
Tightened a few terminals and added another earth lead.
Click!
This was strange, I had wound the engine over on the starter to try and check the CAS signal, but now nothing.
Eventually I found that the main lead to the starter motor wasn't tightened.
With that done it would crank  ;D.
Unfortunately no joy  ???.

Either the crank angle sensor is dead (and Steve (four90s) said it was an unknown), I haven't plugged it in properly or I've wired it back to front. When I originally cranked the engine to check the CAS I also put my multimeter on it just to measure frequency and was getting a reading, so maybe I haven't plugged it in properly.
It's a bloody big shame that all of the assembly work I did today has to be undone to get to the plug  :-[.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: MD on May 05, 2012, 07:56:52 AM
Hey Dukster,

If I get your story right. You cannot even crank the motor? If so, go back to basics.
Forget the entire running circuitry. Just follow up the starting components.

Is the battery flat?
Does your solenoid have B+ when you hit the start sequence?
Is the solenoid working or is it stuck or gone open circuit?
Does the starter have B+ supply?
Does the starter actually work for sure?

If all these basics are sound, then there is absolutely no question that the engine should turn over. Whether it fires is a whole other can of worms...
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on May 05, 2012, 09:44:38 AM
Hey Dukster,

If I get your story right. You cannot even crank the motor? If so, go back to basics.
Forget the entire running circuitry. Just follow up the starting components.

Is the battery flat?
Does your solenoid have B+ when you hit the start sequence?
Is the solenoid working or is it stuck or gone open circuit?
Does the starter have B+ supply?
Does the starter actually work for sure?

If all these basics are sound, then there is absolutely no question that the engine should turn over. Whether it fires is a whole other can of worms...

Mister Dee,

it seems that my communication skills need to be upgraded. I did indeed get the engine to crank
Eventually I found that the main lead to the starter motor wasn't tightened.
With that done it would crank  ;D.
but the engine would not fire because the crank angle sensor isn't providing a signal. Or atleast not 1 the computer understands.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: MD on May 05, 2012, 11:29:44 AM
No,your comms seem good. It's my reading skills need ficker lenses. Sorry about that. :-[

Next basic question, have you done anything to change the timing?

I had a hell of a time getting the timing right for the Cab . I finally found where the crappy timing mark is on the pulley. (see photos)
Also had to get a new crank angle sensor as the original unit had about as much hope of delivering a signal as Caesar's dick.  ;D

The timing marks on the V6 may be different but the nature of the mark will be the same I feel sure.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on May 05, 2012, 11:56:44 AM
What had happened is I sold my original Motronic computer, loom and appropriate sensors (like the CAS).
I bought a hall effect sensor to use with the 60-2 wheel not knowing that they require a minimum gap between the teeth of 10mm.
So I asked for anyone who had a (Motronic Reluctor type) CAS for sale. four90s supplied a sensor to me but actually finding out how to hook it up to the Adaptronic was another matter.
The Bosch CAS has 3 pins: signal, earth and shield.
The Adaptronic uses 2 pins for 1 reluctor trigger (it can have 3 sensor signals sent down the 1, 4 core shielded lead) as the shield is connected to the sensor ground. However, I couldn't find out which 1 is the sensor signal and which 1 is the sensor ground, so it's basically a bit of trial and error. And that's assuming the sensor is pushing out a decent signal.

Because I used the weather proof plugs and they are a bit boofy, there is a fair bit of wire length that isn't protected from electrical noise by the shielding. So to give the signal the best chance of staying clean, the plugs end up about midway along the length of the engine, buried under the inlet runners in the V of the block. So getting to the plug requires that I remove a heap of stuff.

I can test the coils are working by using the Adaptronic's test feature (on screen button to trigger the ignition outputs individually) and they worked. But when I had #1's plug out but in the coil (with the plug earthed obviously) and cranked the engine, there was no zap zaps from the plug.
On the test screen, there are real time inputs to show the CAS sensor is signalling. There was no joy from the test screen. The 1st test I did, did show life for the real time input, so I am hopeful the sensor works. That doesn't necessarily mean I have it wired correctly, though.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on May 12, 2012, 04:26:43 PM
A small update:

ARRRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!  >:( >:( >:( >:(

That's all for the moment.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: ARQ164 Shane on May 15, 2012, 06:42:34 PM
hang in there
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on May 18, 2012, 05:22:48 PM
hang in there

Cheers Alphie, but my axe IS starting to look like an option!

F#$king German crank angle sensors matched to an Italian engine with FA external timing marks...........................  >:(  >:( >:(

Getting my MR2 to run with its Adaptonic was a walk in the park compared to this frustrating POS!
The Toyota also used a proper reset trigger sensor built into its CAS and it was/is 2 years older than the Alfa! 4 years older if you go back to original year of production of the supercharged Toyota engine (the NA engines used a different CAS for some reason) vs the first Motronic run V6 ('86 vs '90)!

It's bad when everything lines up (triple/quadruple checked cam timing), the engine's cranking timing (with a timing light) lines up with the computer's cranking timing number but the only excitement I get is after I sprayed some Nulon 'Start Ya Bastard!' past the throttle body and it launched the plenum chamber off of the inlet runners!  >:( >:( >:(

The next thing I buy could well be a BFH (Big F#&king Hammer)!!!!  >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on May 21, 2012, 05:34:33 PM
A slightly more relaxed update  :P.

The engine still doesn't run.................. But it did for a very brief period and not really when I wanted it to.

I still can't say for sure, but I am 99% sure that I have the crank angle sensor settings correct.
After changing the CAS settings and checking with the timing light, I was convinced I was spot on!
It didn't run.
So I changed the CAS settings again and got a bit to dramatic with the numbers..........
After blowing the plenum chamber off (again), but this time with out the help of Start Ya Bastard!', I made another change on the other side of the first settings  :-\.
Here's the thing, after the last attempt at trying to get the plenum chamber into orbit, I never cranked the engine again. After the last (current) change of the CAS settings, I disabled the fuel pump and removed the fuses for the fuel injectors so they wouldn't open.
This is what I had always done when cranking the engine to test CAS settings with the timing light (in the off chance it actually ran  :P). And that's what I was doing, when it roared (no exhaust just manifolds) into life at a high idle speed because I hadn't plugged a port in the plenum chamber, and then stopped.
I thought I was on a winner!  8)
So I put the injector fuses back in and ran the fuel pump................
Nothing!
Nothing, other than endless cranking  ::)
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: ARQ164 Shane on May 21, 2012, 06:24:42 PM
cool heads are better to think with mate .
If your are getting pissed with it again go and have a beer or a cupper.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: shiny_car on June 18, 2012, 11:46:50 AM
In case you haven't seen, Duk, and you need some parts, Greg Gordon might have some discounted stuff you need:
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/milano-75-1987-1989/197099-supercharger-kit-low-closeout-pricing.html

:)
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on July 14, 2012, 02:45:51 PM
Well, next to nothing has happened with this thing lately, mainly out of annoyance with it.
I took the engine out again and removed the passenger side head. I then made the mistake of buying a cheap Ebay valve spring compressor that could reach down the inlet valves bucket bores. It was a POS that never worked >:(!!!

But today I actually managed to get 1 of the inlet valves out!

All I can say, with what I have seen with the quality of the manufacture of these cylinder heads, is that they are CR@P!!!
Seriously, if Alfa Romeo had done the right thing and actually given a rat's arse about the production quality of the inlet ports (and probably the exhaust ports, too), and used an air flow meter that wasn't undersized for the 2.5 litre engine, let alone the 3 litre, they could have easily topped 200HP with these things with the cams that they used!
EASILY!!!

You could argue that they are a Petrol Heads dream 'cause they have so much potential in them. But after a few Japanese engines that had less 'back yard' potential but better standard performance (per litre) because they were MUCH better in manufacturing quality, it's a very poor show from Alfa Romeo.
There is no doubt that with the right attention to detail, these things can work very well. But they could have worked much better straight out of the box if Alfa had cared a bit more.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: scott.venables on July 29, 2012, 02:01:23 PM
So how's it going Duk?

Where did you get the flanges for your extractors?
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on July 29, 2012, 03:22:29 PM
So how's it going Duk?

Snail's pace..............  ::)

Actually, I ordered some Neway valve seat cutters so I can fix the valve seats Similar to the way Richard Jemmison does them.

Where did you get the flanges for your extractors?

I made them.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on August 14, 2012, 07:28:13 PM
Finally got my Neway valve seat cutters today, some nicely made stuff, but I should have 70* cutters to open the valve seat throats more, instead of the 60* ones I got.
Haven't actually done anything about getting the exhaust valves out, though  :-[.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: scott.venables on August 15, 2012, 12:11:13 PM
Sounds good, so you got 30, 45 and 60?  Where did you order from?

Scott
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on August 15, 2012, 04:50:00 PM
Sounds good, so you got 30, 45 and 60?  Where did you order from?

Scott

http://www.cylinderheadsupply.com/neway-valve-seat-cutters.html freight was pretty expensive (over $100), though.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on March 04, 2013, 06:14:50 PM
Not much has been happening with the Alfa lately.
I coated my RX7 wheels in matte black Plastidip, which is a rubbery plasticy coating that I think is very good for wheels and othyer external stuff like bump moldings and window frames.
Last weekend I grabbed some of the lightweight bumpers from Four90s (Cheers Steve, great to meet ya and yarn about Alfa's for a couple of hours!  8) ). These were from a 2.5 litre but are the same (as far as both me and Steve can tell) as the TS bumpers. Obviously they'll have to be repainted to suit the car.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: shiny_car on March 04, 2013, 10:29:02 PM
Is Plastidip a DIY spray can or what? How will it hold up against stones (chips)?

2.5 L bumpers are the same, except the TS ones have the small add-on 'cornices' to meet with the wheel arch flares.

:)
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on March 05, 2013, 09:17:33 AM
Is Plastidip a DIY spray can or what? How will it hold up against stones (chips)?

2.5 L bumpers are the same, except the TS ones have the small add-on 'cornices' to meet with the wheel arch flares.

:)

The Plastidip can be bought in spray cans, un-thinned and thinned tins. It can be applied by dipping, brushed or sprayed with a typical spray gun.
How it holds up against stones I can't say yet. It remains flexible so I think it should do well.
An added convenience is that it can be removed by pealing it off as it's almost like a layer of shrink wrap. That makes it easy to spray things like badges without removing the badge from the car. You simply mask of the general area, spray, let dry/cure and then peal away the plastidip from the body, and so long as there is a nice defined edge or gap the coating on the badge will be left behind.

Check out Youtube for videos on the stuff, that's how I got keen on using it.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on May 18, 2013, 05:25:58 PM
Still some very slow progress with next to no updates  :-[.

Something that I am keen to change about the car, is the location of the charcoal canister.
A significant part of the changes I have made, has been removal of weight forward of the front axle line. The fitting of a non impact absorbing bumper bar and the battery getting moved under the boot floor (1 day  ::) ), will make significant changes (on top of the other changes) to how the car attacks corners. These will be offset somewhat by the bigger radiator, the supercharger and the water to air intercooler's radiator and circulation pump.

So, can anyone name a reason or 2 why I can't move the charcoal canister (for the evaporative emission system) into the boot?
The Adaptonic computer has a dedicated control system to drive a solenoid valve that regulates the purging of the charcoal canister. And with suitable vacuum plumbing, is there any reason why I can't mount the charcoal canister in the boot, near the fuel tank?

Despite the slow progress, on the whole I am really happy with how the car is coming together. My philosophy is to create a car that works well in as many situations as possible. It needs to be reasonably compliant to help it negotiate my favorite piece of treacherous, bumpy, winding back road. And at the same time do all of the normal, boring shit really well (big radiator for the 45* SA summers and 120 amp alternator with some upgraded wiring to help make sure the electrical system works perfectly and reliably over a long period)!
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: MD on May 18, 2013, 06:07:32 PM
Sometimes one can get so engrossed in the project upgrades that some really important stuff gets overlooked. No one should ever lose sight of compliance issues. Whatever changes are made need to be legal ones if the car is to be on the road.
Non-compliant vehicles are deemed to be unroadworthy and worse still unisurable. So if such a vehicle was previously registered for road use and its use is recommenced in its altered state without such changes being formerly approved, the use of such vehicle can land the user in knee deep doodoo.

If the vehicle is involved in an accident or causes third party damage,the driver/owner wears all the expenses-at fault or not.

Always a good idea to consult the eventual blue plate certifier AHEAD of time with the intended modifications to be sure that all your work will get the nod.

Now I just know you have planned well.. :)
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on May 18, 2013, 06:27:15 PM
Sometimes one can get so engrossed in the project upgrades that some really important stuff gets overlooked. No one should ever lose sight of compliance issues. Whatever changes are made need to be legal ones if the car is to be on the road.
Non-compliant vehicles are deemed to be unroadworthy and worse still unisurable. So if such a vehicle was previously registered for road use and its use is recommenced in its altered state without such changes being formerly approved, the use of such vehicle can land the user in knee deep doodoo.

If the vehicle is involved in an accident or causes third party damage,the driver/owner wears all the expenses-at fault or not.

Always a good idea to consult the eventual blue plate certifier AHEAD of time with the intended modifications to be sure that all your work will get the nod.

Now I just know you have planned well.. :)

In reference too???
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: MD on May 18, 2013, 08:17:59 PM
General advice to anyone modifying their vehicle and to those following your thread.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Southern75 on June 13, 2013, 10:14:17 PM
How do you get to the dipstick ... is there room?
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on June 14, 2013, 11:15:16 AM
How do you get to the dipstick ... is there room?

Just.
If need be, I'll extend the handle so it's easier to get.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on October 06, 2013, 11:25:25 PM
Some progress photos.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on November 08, 2013, 02:55:22 PM
Have been moving about as fast as road kill lately, when it comes to this thing.
But here is some feedback on the bump steer issues that the Pace Engineering Long Shank Top Ball Joints (LSTBJ) cause.
The obvious behavior of having the LSTBJs was a dramatic increase in toe in with bump travel. Now interwebs research showed that the answer to toe in with bump travel is to lower the outer rod end or raise the inner (raise the steering rack)...................
So I initially bent the passenger side arm to lower the outer rod end, but I started with WAAAAY to much adjustment. Long story short, I bought another upright.  :P
I knew that the R32 Skylines used the same M14 thread for their tie rod ends but the tapered stud is too big. So I bought a good quality, adjustable  bump steer correction kit for the R32 Skyline and machined down the taper so it fits the Alfa's steering arm.

Now, at this point I will mention that I am a huge fan of having plenty of positive caster in my wheel alignment. So using my digital inclinometer I wound 7.5* of caster into it.................

With the new correction kit fitted solidly but in a temporary state (the top nut uses a rather aggressive locking mechanism that I didn't want to have to unwind unless absolutely necessary), I mounted the outer rod end as high as I could, using the kits usual layout and worked the suspension thru some of its travel.
End result, toe in with bump travel.
So I lowered the rod end again.
Still toe in with bump travel.
Lowered it more (by this time I was concerned with the rod end running out of articulation near full droop).
Still toe in with bump travel......................  >:(
In fact, the more I lowered the outer rod end, the more toe in with bump she appeared (at this stage I was just watching the wheel hub move about) to gain.

So I removed the top spacer and put the 2 thinner bottom spacers at the top. Hmmmmmmmmmmm, less apparent bad behavior. And this time I had stuck my little laser pointer to the brake rotor, but wasn't bouncing it off a mirror yet, just watching it wander across the shed wall.

Long story short, after going back over just about every conceivable set up and bouncing the laser off a mirror and back onto a vertical surface I bolted to a wheel stud, I had to reduce my caster angle to 5.5* (only 1 more than standard) and have the thinnest bottom spacer at the top, to get an acceptable (read: really friggin low) level of bump steer.
A quick comparison with an old factory tie rod end shows the new rod ends pivot point is actually higher than where the factory rod end's pivot point would be.........  :o
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: MD on November 08, 2013, 06:40:07 PM
   
Quote
Now, at this point I will mention that I am a huge fan of having plenty of positive caster in my wheel alignment.

Hi Dukster,

Just want to say that I used to think that too. However in reality, the 116 transaxles do not need more than 3.5* of caster to work well. I cannot imagine the 75 is any different in this regard.

I am saying this if it helps you solve your set up.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on November 08, 2013, 08:50:42 PM
Standard caster angle is 4.5* for the 75 (though for some reason I had thought it was 3*).
Caster is a definite helper in trying to keep the outside front wheel perpendicular with the road to help maintain good tread contact patch, during cornering.
The higher roll centre height and the more aggressive camber curve from the LSTBJs, the higher spring rates and eventually chunkier anti-roll bar all help to keep the tyre contact patch much closer to ideal than standard, but I wanted to apply all of the techniques to do the job.
Oh well, I'll have to see how effective the end results are with the set up I have. I'm sure those changes along with the non impact absorbing bumper bar, the battery in the boot and the wider track width will make big changes to the cars ability to turn into corners and should massively reduce the understeery nature of the car.
Tho even when it had 'only' the LSTBJ, 105 lb/in additional coil springs and 4.5* positive caster, it was much improved over standard (well, lower, Koni's and heavy, shite 17x7 rims with a poxy +40 offset).
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on December 30, 2013, 07:10:34 PM
Thought I'd post a photo of my incomplete fabricated front 'bar.
Based on some 1.25" diameter x 0.120" wall thickness 4130 (Chromoly) tube/pipe and uses 40x40x3 RHS arms, it weighs noticeably less than the original 24mm solid bar and calculations show that it should be about 60% stiffer too. Or about the same stiffness as a solid 27mm bar.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Colin Edwards on April 24, 2019, 01:10:07 PM
Further to the performance of the 3.0 12V fitted to the 75, exhaust system work for the old girl needs serious consideration.  Specifically from the heads - but not including the rear muffler section.

Two design philosophies appear popular with regard to the headers:
* A virtual copy of the cast headers - fabricated three into one, featuring primaries around 500mm long
* Fabricated headers - two piece / joined primaries about 1200mm < 1500mm long - three into one collector located somewhere under the hand brake

Given the second arrangement would be near three times the weight of the first arrangement, would the extra mass be offset by any "PROVEN" engine output increase of the more complex solution?  Not looking for much performance increase.  Just don't see the point in adding mass for very little (if any!) gain.

Engine is as per factory apart from SZ cams and re-profiled / lightened inlet valves.

Colin

 
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Duk on April 26, 2019, 01:49:30 PM
Making sure the pipe lengths are as close to equal as possible is very important.
A tubular version of the original manifold is basically pointless. When decent factory exhaust manifolds started to apear on equally decent engined cars, less than honest manufacturers would simply build a tubular version of those manifolds and claim improvement over the original manifold.
But unless the diameter and/or lengths are changed, how can there be any change in exhaust chacteristics???
Basically there can't be any changes if things are ultimately very, very similar.

1 good thing about the shorter primary pipe extractors is that it can be worthwhile to play with secondary pipe lengths and diameters to further chase power or a broader torque curve.

Personally I'd use 500mm primaries, 1 5/8", equal length pipes, with proper merge collectors and look at secondary pipes at least 700mm long, 2" diameter into a 2 1/2" collector before the cat.
Whether you could buy those extractors off the shelf or not, is anyone's guess.
Title: Re: 75 Performance.
Post by: Storm_X on June 16, 2019, 07:05:42 PM
So how's the car going now, has much happened in the 6 years from the last update