What a great weekend, a HUGE amount of Alfa's competing and racing hard over multiple categories. The last race for me (Group Sc)was awesome, 2 Porsches, 2 Alfettas and a 240Z nose to tail for the last 4 laps and changing positions regularly, about 1 second covered the 5 of us at the end ;D
Good to see more and more Victorians getting involved.
My personal thanks to Stuart for lending a hand over the weekend (and cooking us breakfast!), but lets not start on the PTFE tape again ;) and also to Neil for organising accom (Neil cant go away for a weekend without organising something hehe).
This photo was sent to me by Evan.....anyone else have some photos of all the Alfa's competing?
Hey, hmd....tell the type 901 boys it was great to see so many of them coming out of the woodwork now too!
Yes, but most of the Typ901 boys are in Sb.
Anyway a great weekend indeed. I spent all of the 4 races chasing or being chased in a pack of 6 Alfas
myself, David Harris (NSW 105), Nick Taylor (Vic Spider), Lyndon (NSW Alfetta), Urs (NSW Alfetta), Chris Blanden (VIC 105)
then thrown in the odd Ferrari 308 and Datsun 260Z. My arms are still sore from holding onto the steering wheel for dear life.
Phil ,
Really enjoyed the Group S racing on the weekend. The Alfa representation in the Under 3 litre touring cars wasn't quite as strong as in previous years and the Mazda RX 2 , seem to be be getting quicker & quicker, maybe more RX7 than RX 2 . Not trying to hijack your thread but I found this footage from last years meeting with the leading RX2's. They might go fast in a straight line but it looks like you have to very brave under brakes or around corners.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJzM7WgmFdk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUJL6fPbaBE&feature=BF&list=ULTYvT7M6SpDM&index=4.
Cheers
Gully
I concur, a fabulous weekend of racing, particularly for me as it was my first in living memory. I now have one valuable signature on my new licence!
Really enjoyed chasing, but unfortunately not passing, Hung. The only downside was on the last lap of the last race, as I lifted off for the braking point into turn 1, BANG, the rubber donut on the back of the gearbox exploded. It's can-opened from the floor on the driver's side all the way across the tunnel and into the floor on the passenger side. The hole is big enough to put your hand into. The alu control panel holding the kill and a few other switches screwed to the tunnel, was fired off with enough force to break the windscreen on the passenger side. All this at 200kph!
On a serious note, I was very lucky not to be hurt by either the flailing drive shaft (driving with crossed legs is difficult) or the ballistic control panel. I know these things are very rare, but perhaps those who compete, particularly in 105's, should think about something better than the standard donut. I've already ordered the Spruell Motorsport race solution from the US and Alfaholics do a complete replacement of the donut. I'll see if I can post some photos which are sure to cause at least a sharp intake of breath!
Despite my formerly pristine car being nowhere near it, it can be rebuilt and it was a fabulous weekend. At least it didn't happen on the first lap of the first race!
There's a braking point for turn one?
Quote from: Evan Bottcher on March 21, 2011, 06:17:01 PM
There's a braking point for turn one?
If you have horsepower, yes... ;D
A few pics I managed to get. Group S...
More Group S...
Under 3 litre Touring Cars....
Group A...
A few random ones. This orange RX2 driver was one of the best I saw all weekend. Fast and smooth, but significantly sideways at other moments too, all easily controlled; a pleasure to watch. And some nice old cars....
QuoteThis orange RX2 driver was one of the best I saw all weekend. Fast and smooth, but significantly sideways at other moments too, all easily controlled
I would also add "on the edge", Jason Humble RX2. Refer to 2010 PI Historics clip earlier in this thread take from the rear of his car . I don't know if he is arrogant or he is really good (considering his name) but he usually has the camera in his car facing out the back as he is usually on pole.
In the interests of saftey those Japanese jam tins might need an aero package exemption.
I posted a few more crappy photos here: http://alfa.bottch.com/2011/03/pi-historics-2011-group-sc/
And here's a short video of Group Sc race one coming through Siberia on Saturday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY1NAra6Qt0
Especially if you have this kind of horsepower Evan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfCE_-q3-JU
Absolutely awesome to watch . The history of this car is amazing as well. Surely only an Australian would buy an F5000 car as "donor" to make their own ground effects sports car. John Bowe was the original driver .
Quote from: hmd on March 21, 2011, 02:27:36 PM
Yes, but most of the Typ901 boys are in Sb.
I know, but its still good to have some variety in GroupS, like that yellow Marcos in with us, that was pretty cool and once its sorted should be quick too!
Quote from: Chris Blanden on March 21, 2011, 03:59:34 PM
It's can-opened from the floor on the driver's side all the way across the tunnel and into the floor on the passenger side. The hole is big enough to put your hand into.
Chris, glad to see you back in the pits after the race all OK. Sorry I couldnt hang around any longer to see the damage.
Quote from: Evan Bottcher on March 21, 2011, 06:17:01 PM
There's a braking point for turn one?
Moto GP guys even go back some gears.....pussies.
Quote from: Paul Gulliver on March 21, 2011, 03:19:25 PM
and the Mazda RX 2 , seem to be be getting quicker & quicker, maybe more RX7 than RX 2 .
I believe they have had some freedoms grated recently, something to do with Teflon bearings apparently. Not sure how much longer that will go on, something like 8 rotarys in the top 12 in Group N....that wont last long, guaranteed!!
Not having put any photos up before I'm not sure this will work, but here goes.
The smashed windscreen is a result of the switchbox on the tunnel (you can see it in the passenger footwell) becoming a missile when the donut let go and hit the tunnel from underneath.
I'll separately post a couple of close ups (hopefully).
[img/Users/cblanden/Desktop/cockpit[5]http://PI 2011.jpg][/img]/Users/cblanden/Desktop/smashed[9] PI 2011.jpg
Well clearly that didn't work, so here's another go.
Having got it right here are a few more.
That must have been terrifying, or at least got your attention especially on the fastest part of the track. Glad to hear your OK.
Gully
HOLY CRAP!!!!!
I'm guessing you'll be in the market for a new driving suit. And seat. And floor pan.
That is really frickin scary.
Beautiful steering wheel BTW.
Attention grabbing is a fair description.
Pleased to report that both the driving suit (the only fluid was oil on the leg) and seat came out of it relatively unscathed, but new floor pan and tunnel segments required. Rear casing of the g'box broken, drive shaft mangled and lots of dings in the muffler (from shrapnel). Nothing that can't be fixed and the race solution reinforced and steel encased donut replacement from Spruell in the US is already on its way.
BTW the steering wheel is an original 1970's MOMO Jacky Stewart signed model.
Found this footage of a 200kph mini, has good footage chasing and being chased by Bill Magoffin and Phil Simmie in Gp N race.
Pretty good and entertaining.
Cheers
Quote from: Chris Blanden on March 24, 2011, 06:27:48 PM
Attention grabbing is a fair description.
Pleased to report that both the driving suit (the only fluid was oil on the leg) and seat came out of it relatively unscathed, but new floor pan and tunnel segments required. Rear casing of the g'box broken, drive shaft mangled and lots of dings in the muffler (from shrapnel). Nothing that can't be fixed and the race solution reinforced and steel encased donut replacement from Spruell in the US is already on its way.
BTW the steering wheel is an original 1970's MOMO Jacky Stewart signed model.
You were lucky to get away with this one Chris!
I cannot stress enough the importance of the condition of components for competition use; not only the donut itself(which should be replaced with h/duty type every year), but also the gearbox output-shaft ball-nose which spigots into the tailshaft and spins the whole assembly on centre. Wear is very common after 40 years and if not attended to there is nothing the retain the whole mass from flailing around off-centre and failing. As like many things promblematic (solid carb mounts spring to mind!), much of this is stuff that has been known since the 60's/70's, but seems to have been lost in the midst of latest tyre compounds, billet-machined gear knobs and assorted high tech electronic devices that seem to take pre-eminence these days, none of which will are of any value when the car is broken.....(OK, the data logger can show you EXACTLY where on the cicuit you stopped!)
A point that people often overlook is that in a 105 (as opposed to an Alfetta) in 5th gear, the tailshaft is spinning around 20% faster than the engine, so 7000rpm at the end of the straight is 8400 at the output of the gearbox.
Alfa used donut cages back in the 60's and these have been available and used here in Aus for at least the last 25 years, along with heavy duty donuts for the 105's.
To all those people who just toss old gearboxes etc to the recyclers, think twice before you do! Shafts and other bits are mostley interchangeable, and the older one that you toss away will most likely have something that you will need one day for your 'good' one.........
Vin
Quote from: Paul Gulliver on March 21, 2011, 03:19:25 PM
Phil ,
Really enjoyed the Group S racing on the weekend. The Alfa representation in the Under 3 litre touring cars wasn't quite as strong as in previous years and the Mazda RX 2 , seem to be be getting quicker & quicker, maybe more RX7 than RX 2 . Not trying to hijack your thread but I found this footage from last years meeting with the leading RX2's. They might go fast in a straight line but it looks like you have to very brave under brakes or around corners.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJzM7WgmFdk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUJL6fPbaBE&feature=BF&list=ULTYvT7M6SpDM&index=4.
Cheers
Gully
OK, time for a whinge!
Historic racing used to be a refuge from the appalling raaaap, raaaap, raaaap of bloody rotaries that invaded all and sundry types of racing years ago.
One of the most pleasant and noticable differences at historics, up until the last few years, was the vast range of pleasant sounding engines. But alas time has caught up with us and we are to be invaded again by the aural onslaught of overly-loud (how DO they pass noise tests?) and terrible, chainsaw massacre-sounding wankle engines!
And to add insult, they are powerfull and virtually impossible from an engineering point, to regulate relative to a piston engine equivalent on which so many period restictions are (correctly) placed.
My vote is for a RX bonfire at the end of each meeting, just to control numbers and discourage breeding........
Cheers,
Vin
Vin,
Quite right, but this donut was only 12 months old and the other bits you mention had all been checked as well. I think that means for peace of mind, something better than just the original type donut is required. Also for PI at least, I think a longer rear end (currently have a 4.55) would ease the strain on everything.
Let me know if you have a 4.3 ! !
Cheers
Quote from: vin sharp on March 27, 2011, 11:20:16 AM
And to add insult, they are powerfull and virtually impossible from an engineering point, to regulate relative to a piston engine equivalent on which so many period restictions are (correctly) placed.
If they are powerful, surely that is a triumph of engineering that should be celebrated? They're not the best sounding engine, granted, but many people love the sound of them. Why do you say they are "virtually impossible from an engineering point, to regulate relative to a piston engine equivalent"? I thought they'd been given an equivalency factor years ago; have the rotary builders found some more tricks, or have the rules changed?
Yes, I have driven a Mazda rotary, and other than the lack of a nice engine note and hampered with an atrocious thirst and a lack of torque (cured somewhat by turbocharging), it is one of the finest engines you could ever drive.
In my knowledge of rotaries the equivalency to piston engines has always been in question, in part because of the difficulty in working out the working capacity of the triangular shape of the rotor in each housing (2) and also the extreme low weight of the powerplant. The capacity of each rotor housing is in the vicinity of 573 cc each, therefore 12A two rotor engines are usually stated as having a capacity of 1146 cc. The black magic occurs when you bring in to consideration how much performance benefit occurs when the trailing set of spark plugs fire (rotaries have 2 leading sets of plugs and 2 trailing sets of plugs) that are there firstly to burn any unburnt gases, but as a consequence also helps push along the rotor a bit more in a secondary manner.....therefore adding some horsepower. Thus this is why in race car terms a factor had to be used to draw comparisons to piston engine cars. That factor is 2.0 times engine capacity hence 2292 cc. This gets even more dodgy when (like) back in the 80's they found out what might occure if your didn't care about fuel economy but just poured in more fuel to the trailing side of the rotor to give it an even greater help along. (Known as P.P) Now this is not happening here in Historic racing but there seems to be quiet a lot of options available to the clever rotary developer to get additional performance. I say it is time, that due to the nature of the combustion chamber possibilities that for racing terms rotaries be considered 3.0 time capacity ie 3438 cc which would bring them in to line with equivalent performance historic vehicles. As for the noise......... we just have to leave that up to the D.B meter. Gary.
Whatever the outcome, I doubt Group N will be happy to let this happen for much longer.....
Pos Car Driver Vehicle Cap CL Laps Race.Time Fastest...Lap
1 29 Jason Humble Mazda RX2 2292 I 6 11:38.3531 5 1:53.2121*
2 31 Ben Read Mazda RX2 2063 I 6 11:38.4113 6 1:54.6848
3 19 Wayne Seabrook Porsche 911S 2247 I 6 11:38.6125 3 1:54.5427
4 39 Jason Black Ford Escort RS 1600 1666 H 6 11:39.7774 3 1:53.6173
5 80 Steve Land Ford Capri 2994 I 6 11:42.1742 4 1:55.0241
6 22 Gary Bonwick Mazda RX2 2063 I 6 11:43.4383 4 1:54.0504
7 6 Bob Sudall Mazda RX2 2063 I 6 11:50.3088 3 1:55.6686
8 96 Bill Attard Mazda RX2 2062 I 6 11:51.1925 4 1:54.9720
9 4 Kirk Davis Mazda RX2 2063 I 6 11:53.4153 3 1:55.9311
10 71 Wayne Rogerson Mazda RX2 2063 I 6 11:56.1711 4 1:56.2663
11 94 Ben Wilkinson Mazda RX2 2063 I 6 11:59.1583 6 1:56.1537 |
Yeah good point.
But then again, wouldn't Group Sc (at least under 2000cc) look like this.....
1 60 Michael Byrne Lotus Seven S4 1560 A 6 11:47.5709 3 1:56.2371
2 86 Get Concreted Daniel Gatto Alfa Romeo GTV 1962 A 6 12:21.9480 2 2:00.5016
3 58 Phil Baskett Alfa Romeo GTV 2000 A 6 12:22.4770 2 2:00.7693
4 2 Nick Taylor Alfa Romeo Spider 1980 A 6 12:38.3682 6 2:02.0259
5 43 Hung Do Alfetta GTV 2000 A 6 12:40.4142 6 2:02.8028
6 64 Urs Muller Alfa Romeo GTV 1962 A 6 12:40.7805 6 2:02.0982
7 57 Statler & Waldorf Racing Colin Connaughton Alfetta GTV 1962 A 6 13:03.0018 2 2:06.4585
8 7 Gary Pearce Alfa Romea GTV 1962 A 6 13:03.8304 2 2:07.5704
9 23 Amethyst Lodge Graeme Noonan Lotus Super 7 Series 1558 A 6 13:08.9788 4 2:07.1595
10 31 Veloce Racing Assc Paul Newby Alfetta GT 1846 A 6 13:11.7810 6 2:08.1851
11 3 Neil Choi Alfa Romeo 1962 A 6 13:27.2564 2 2:07.7706
12 49 Glenn Campbell Alfetta GTV 2000 1962 A 6 13:28.8584 3 2:10.4913
DNF 15 Christopher Blanden Alfa Romeo GTV 2000 2000 A 5 10:40.0355 4 2:04.9336
DNF 89 Veloce Racing Assoc David Harris Alfa Romeo 105 GTV 1962 A 4 8:49.09
And thats why Group S is looking to go to an over 2 litre and under 2 litre format....which first time used produced this @ Sandown last year
Pos Car Competitor/Team Driver Vehicle Cap CL Laps Race.Time Fastest...Lap
1 60 Michael Byrne Lotus Seven S4 1560 H 8 13:34.7369 3 1:27.1196*
2 66 Porschclassics.com.au Alex Webster Porsche 911S 1991 F 8 13:38.2832 7 1:31.9823
3 58 Phil Baskett Alfa Romeo Alfetta G 2000 H 8 13:40.1695 7 1:32.6985
4 22 Bret McManus MG Roadster 1860 F 8 13:41.7285 8 1:31.8289
5 14 Bernie Mylon Lyndon Arnel MG Midget 1293 D 8 13:42.0320 7 1:32.4083
6 95 Troy Ryan Austin Healey Sprite 1275 D 8 13:42.8365 8 1:32.5112
7 44 Lyndon McLeod Alfa Romeo Alfetta G 1962 H 8 13:45.8481 2 1:33.4896
8 20 Veloce Racing Association John Lenne Alfa Romeo 1962 H 8 13:48.7339 2 1:33.3861
9 17 Veloce Racing Association Colin Wilson-Brown Alfa Romeo 1750 GTV 1822 F 8 13:51.0411 8 1:32.4280
10 7 Robert Haywood MGB 1868 F 8 13:51.7525 8 1:35.0075
11 75 Brian Weston MG Midget 1275 D 8 13:51.8980 7 1:35.0053
12 8 John Stevenson MGB 1850 F 8 13:52.9646 8 1:35.3168
13 51 Kent Brown MGB 1867 F 8 13:58.3240 8 1:35.6195
14 43 Hung Do Alfa GTV 1962 H 8 13:59.1792 2 1:36.0892
15 36 Rohan Hodges Lotus Elan 1594 E 8 13:59.8375 8 1:35.6605
16 30 Don Bartley Austin Healey Sprite 1275 D 8 14:00.0581 8 1:35.5174
17 91 Greg White MGB Roadster 1860 F 8 14:02.0766 2 1:36.9419
18 2 Peter Mohacsi MG Midget 1300 D 8 14:03.2535 8 1:37.0640
19 3 Abbotsford Collision Centre Rob Whitwell MGB GT 1845 F 8 14:03.6446 8 1:36.6209
20 16 MJH Marketing Marcus Hancock Alfa Romeo Alfetta 2000 H 8 14:04.2354 8 1:36.8021
21 29 Anthony Prowse Alfa Romeo 105 1750 F 8 14:09.3351 8 1:37.2758
22 23 Amethyst Lodge Graeme Noonan Lotus Super 7 Series 1558 H 8 14:09.5168 8 1:38.2204
23 31 Neil Choi Alfa Romeo Alfetta G 1962 H 8 14:14.5726 7 1:40.5488
24 56 John Young MGA 1650 B 8 14:35.9515 2 1:42.3659
25 19 Fred Brock Austin Healey Sprite 998 A 8 14:44.3505 7 1:47.0304
26 42 Greg Prunster Austin Healey Sprite 998 A 8 14:48.2386 8 1:48.0674
DNF 35 S. Constantinidis Alfa GTV 2000 2000 H 2 3:16.5712 2 1:34.0823
Yep, that would be much better than present I think. The Sa and b races were a little boring last week.
Story and pics on velocetoday http://www.velocetoday.com/archives/17905#more-17905 (http://www.velocetoday.com/archives/17905#more-17905)
Fantastic read, Alfa was well represented and several club members got great mentions.
Quote from: alfagtv58 on March 21, 2011, 02:02:45 PM
The last race for me (Group Sc)was awesome, 2 Porsches, 2 Alfettas and a 240Z nose to tail for the last 4 laps and changing positions regularly, about 1 second covered the 5 of us at the end ;D
This is a screen shot from the In Pit Lane you tube footage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoiEON6jwMM). This typifies for me the last race that I was talking about earlier....all going hard, locked brakes, 3 abreast etc.....and it was like that for most of the race. There is only a brief few seconds of this on the you tube clip, most of it is the Sports Cars (drooool).
Phillip Island was great event, especially with the turn out of so many Alfas. This in itself draws more attention, wanted or otherwise, to the marque in much the same way that the influx of Mazda rotaries to Group Nc has done.........
To that end, in subsequent conversations with officials of the event, competitors and other general spectators, it has been noticed that several Alfas were presented and competed in various inelligble forms for various classes. It is suggested that from here on, Alfas will receive a certain amount of 'extra' attention regards being presented legally for competition classes. None of what has been mentioned is
"grey area" interpretation of regs. Wider than allowed wheels, lower profile tyres, vented brake discs, drilled suspension & brake components, coil-over suspensions and larger engine size were some of the very obvious things that were noted by many at a glance......these are black and white infringements and are pretty silly things to try and slide through. Why?.....1;because there are several "grey" areas that every marque benefits from, and if attention is drawn to a marque because of blatant silly things, that marque may well also have the grey areas severely tightened as well, while others are free to go on as is. 2; to knowingly present a car that is illegal can result in exclusion from the meeting, suspension or withdrawal of licences, and/or fines. 3; it makes everyone else who competes in that marque of car as 'suspect' in the eyes of other competitors and officials.
Advice is keep it tidy, as everybody is aware of what is plainly ok or not.......nobody wants to get Alfas 'labelled' and crunched while other makes go on as they are.